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Night_Wolf
09-27-2011, 10:18 PM
Anyone got an views on D2 RS Coilovers in the GB section? I'm looking to pick up some coilovers for my 3S-GTE swapped AT180 and would like some input on what you guys think, prefer, or have had experience with these or any other type of coilover.

Luni
09-28-2011, 04:30 AM
All you're going to hear about in here is Megans. And Megans are shitty coilovers IMO. Their dampers are crappy and the springs don't give rated spring rates (theyre stiffer). Results in a choppy bouncier ride. And you'll get people who like them like Murg but I think he just hasn't ridden in a car with good coilovers to really know. Best bet is make your own custom coilovers. I don't know about the D2s but I'd wager they're in the lower spectrum too. Sucks to say but if a set of coilovers aren't over 1200-1500 (or more) theyre going to be cheap. This is my opinion. For what it's worth I have TRD coilovers on my MR2. I've driven Teins, H&Rs, Cuscos, etc and none of em have ridden as good as mine. bugs has some custom ones he built using swift springs and konis with ground control sleeves on his 7th gen and it drove and handled better than anything else I've ever driven.

temperacerguy
09-28-2011, 04:46 AM
bugs has some custom ones he built using swift springs and konis with ground control sleeves on his 7th gen and it drove and handled better than anything else I've ever driven.

Interesting option I didn't consider....

Do you know how the sleves are mounted to the strut body?

Luni
09-28-2011, 05:19 AM
Im not sure how he keeps them on there. You cut the spring perch off, and I think theres a lip that holds the sleeve on. I think the force of the spring pushing down on the sleeve is what holds it in place.

I know you could just weld it. But Im not sure how they do it. Ask Bugs!

temperacerguy
09-28-2011, 05:52 AM
yeah, I was researching this after you planted the seed... There is a small steel shelf/mount that's welded to the strut body at the bottom. Then you slide on some rubber "o-rings" that are made from rubber, the aluminum collar then slips over the o-rings and rests on the mount that's welded to the strut body.

I am considering making a set for my ST185 (when it gets here), but I think I will need to consult with Joey first...

Luni and I talked about the rubber O-rings on chat, and my concern is that the rubber would degrade over time, and cause rattling. He said "Make some out of polyurethane" and I dismissed his suggestion, considering making them out of Delrin. but then I thought..... Just fill the void (or a portion of the void) with casting urethane. (same thing that was originally used to fill motor mounts)

Luni has planted the seed.... but now I have to find the right shocks to use, and camber adjustable strut mounts. I am seriously interested in doing this.... but have to take care of some other things first...

KoreanJoey
09-28-2011, 06:43 AM
You can also use a shaft collar to locate the spring perch.

That's what I did on the rear of the corolla (running QA1 double adjustables)

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/298916_10150274625143801_533313800_7576877_4485264 _n.jpg

temperacerguy
09-28-2011, 07:02 AM
Joey,

I will be picking your brain in the future as to figuring out spring rates, and shock valving in the future. As for the shaft collars, what did you use to center the collar on the shock body?

CollapsedNut
09-28-2011, 11:56 AM
There are tons of adjustable strut mounts on the interwebs. You could probably call up Tein or someone else and buy just the mounts from them.

KoreanJoey
09-29-2011, 01:19 AM
The QA1 actually has a little step in it that I set it on. On the OE strut I would cut the spring perch off but leave just a bit to locate the shaft collar. You can order them from McMaster-Carr. I'd get the two piece since getting the one piece collar on is a PITA.

As to spring rates and shock valving... well, that's really um... yeah. Depends on what you're doing/what your driving style is. Personally I'm happier with a looser/oversteering car than one that understeers and set the spring rates (in conjunction with the swaybars and alignment settings) to match. I ran 8kg in the front 6kg in the rear, stock swaybar in the front and an ST swaybar in the rear with a very aggressive alignment). I found the QA1s have a lot of adjustment within the stock range and I was able to adjust it to match the setup for the surface I run.

Generally the adjustment you need to focus on is the compression (bump) setting. That's one you set and forget. It'll take some time but I found that video equipment mounted to view the contact patch of the tire vs the ground really helps. The rebound setting is one that I'll change for different surfaces/traction conditions (asphalt vs concrete or dry vs rain).

As to the o-rings... I ran it that way for um... 4-5 years and the o-rings were never problem.

I ran K Sport camber plates but they did need to be modified to fit the Konis I ran at the time. I also notched the mounting holes on the body to gain caster.

temperacerguy
09-29-2011, 04:06 AM
Joey... How much caster are you running? How much did you slot the tower holes?

Also, I am looking at QA1s website, and I can't find any inserts. It seems all the shocks have spherical bearings on both ends.... I am at www.qa1.net correct? What did you use?

I am definately going to go less aggressive with the alignment and spring rates. I need a car that's comfortable, but good for canyon carving.

I am a well experienced driver in autocross and track, and know how to drive smooth, and corner with the throttle (of course I can improve as everyone can)

KoreanJoey
09-30-2011, 12:37 AM
The QA1s are on the rear of the corolla (current race car). On the Celica I used Koni 8610-1437RACE (couldn't afford double adjustables at the time). As far as I know QA1 doesn't make struts (which is a shame since they use the same internal components as Penskes at a fraction of the cost).

I notched a lot out of the tower bolt holes (basically to the lip of the strut hole), I think I maxed out at around 5-6*.

Well as to the spring rates... hard to say since I'm not sure what you're willing to deal with in a daily driver. I daily drove the celica with those spring rates for a long time and it got pretty old to bobblehead down a relatively smooth road. I'd say something in the 300lbs range in the front and 200-250lbs range in the rear is about as aggressive as I'd want in a daily, now that I have a dedicated track car.

To be honest I'm perfectly content with my current Celica for a daily (minus lack of power); H&R progressive springs, ST rear bar, Koni Yellows. Cheap, fun to drive and yet not abusive. Even decent on occasional autocross practices.

On a side note the Koni race shocks would probably just to too stiff for anything under 400lbs springs and you'd be way over-dampened.

temperacerguy
09-30-2011, 01:06 AM
when I am ready to do this, I will call Koni and see what they have for an off the shelf unit to match the strut length/spring rates.

As for the tower bolt holes.... It looks like I will do nearly the same with a reinforcing plate welded in. (I've been playing alot with my TIG welder, and now all fabrication happy)

Spring rates, I am probably going to have to play around with... I really have not had good luck with progressive springs but I may go that route. It seems like the car wallows over in corner entry...., and squat/dive is always there. I am sure I can play with the corner entry problem with sway bar selection....

Anyways, suspension is something no matter how much I work on and play with, I doubt I will ever be happy.

KoreanJoey
09-30-2011, 02:24 AM
The wallowing is probably more shock than spring. Not enough bump.

I'm telling you though, video is really, really helpful.

Murgatroy
09-30-2011, 02:17 PM
All you're going to hear about in here is Megans. And Megans are shitty coilovers IMO. Their dampers are crappy and the springs don't give rated spring rates (theyre stiffer). Results in a choppy bouncier ride. And you'll get people who like them like Murg but I think he just hasn't ridden in a car with good coilovers to really know.

Luni has a point. Chaos is the most 'tuned' car I have ever driven. I have driven faster and more powerful cars, but Chaos is as far as I have gone for handling.

As far as upgraded from stock, I don't think there is any comparison to the Megans. I took off 220k worn factory components, put in new suspension components, and then put in the coilovers. Pricewise, they were comparable to a complete factory suspension, and cheaper than a factory style upgrade (Koni/Eibach,) when you include the cost of new strut mounts.

I am pleased with the suspension, even though I will confess that Chaos was done as much for looks as usability. I will thrash a car on stock suspension, so being stiffer and tighter was a huge bonus, but being slammed gets extra style points. Even if not completely practical and does mess with the geometry a bit as well. If Chaos were about an inch higher, spring preload tuned and corner balanced, I would beg to differ a bit on the handling versus some of the higher end systems. However, I haven't gotten that far and right now suits my purposes fine. And she looks mean.


If you are contemplating a stock style upgrade, but you want a little more option, the lower end coilovers offer a lot at their price point. However, if money is not an option and you want balls out performance, there are plenty of custom options, as mentioned here. I went with the coilovers because of the price, and the option to slam my car to the ground. Improving the handling was a concern as well, but in all honesty here, other than Joey and a few others, how many of us need a full race tune suspension? I know that as far as 'aggressive street' driving goes, I am probably one of the more prone drivers, living in the mountain twisties like I do, but Chaos sees 80% of her 5k a year on pothole ridden streets around 45MPH.

Okctrd
10-01-2011, 04:36 AM
i just posted my GC coilovers in the FS thread, if anyone is interested.

KoreanJoey
10-01-2011, 04:58 AM
in all honesty here, other than Joey and a few others, how many of us need a full race tune suspension? I know that as far as 'aggressive street' driving goes, I am probably one of the more prone drivers, living in the mountain twisties like I do, but Chaos sees 80% of her 5k a year on pothole ridden streets around 45MPH.

This is my point exactly. I drive these race tuned cars and they're abusive even driving to the pit areas. It was fun when I was 18 but I wouldn't put myself through it now that I'm a little older and have done it for years.