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ericfragola
08-13-2011, 11:41 PM
hey everyone im close to finishing my swap in my 165. but im shy on a couple pieces. i have a new t3/to4z turbo. which uses a t3 feed line. but as for the feed line, the stock uses a banjo bolt. ATS offers a kit which is exactly what i need but its $80...i found this on ebay but its a for a rev3. does anyone know if the 2nd gen and 3rd gen banjo bolts are the same size? if they are, then this set up will work. if not, then it wont...

heres what ats sells
http://atsracing.net/Parts.mvc/Details/ATS-oilfeed-16in

and heres ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-3SGTE-Rev3-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-Garrett-BB-T3-T4R-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUC IQ26otnQ3d3Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d2041475 294553235689QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ25085601152 5

or if anyone has the ats kit already ill buy it off of you :D

MrWOT
08-14-2011, 02:21 AM
Most local "truck repair shop"s will stock the fittings you need, esp in the bay. Also where I go to get stainless braided hoses made (can't say they are brake lines when you get them made to legal reasons (DOT rules), call them clutch lines with banjos), the ones I've gotten from local shops always far outstrip the online ones in material quality as well.

Facime
08-14-2011, 02:42 AM
yeah, I have a local hydraulic shop that makes hoses and stocks pretty much every fitting under the sun. Look for a place like that. Go in with your banjo bolt and you should be able to find what you need for only a few bucks.
I had a custom turbo drain line (-10AN) made to fit for like $15.

Sang
08-14-2011, 03:44 AM
Gen2 and Gen3 blocks don't share the same size banjo bolt. ST205 block is threaded for a smaller size than St185. And from what I remember, the ST165 is different still from ST185. And $80 isn't that bad of a price once you factor in a flange for the turbo side (or threaded adapter depending on how your turbo is), line itself, and the block adapter. Looking at about $10-15 for a nicely CNC'd flange, $15 for the line, and maybe $15 for the block adapter depending on what size it is. The only thing I don't like about the ATS kit is that it has straight hose ends on each side. Would much rather see them use a 90* swivel on one of the sides for better packaging. In the end it doesn't really matter as long as you do your due diligence and clearance it away from the manifold/exhaust assembly.

Also given the opportunity, i'd ALWAYS replace a banjo bolt for a straight adapter with a proper hose ends. Banjo bolts are stupid restrictive in terms of flow compared to the latter.

T-spoon
08-14-2011, 04:02 AM
JEGS is a pretty good source for this stuff too, if you're looking online. I used them for all the hose and fittings for my project.

Sang
08-14-2011, 04:03 AM
And just to give you another option, if you insist on keeping the banjo bolt, just reuse the stock one. If you have a good hydraulic shop near you, have them cut the hardline and braze on a -3JIC or -4JIC (whichever matches closest to the nominal OD of the hardline). Get them to make you a feed line as well, -3 or -4 in size with a crimped straight on one end and a 90* on another (make sure both sides are swivel sealed, you'll thank yourself later). Then the only thing you really need to outsource is the proper -3AN or -4AN flange to bolt onto the turbo side.

Either way, I would never put my engine at risk by going with a no-named vendor on ebay for something as important as a high pressure oil line (same goes for fuel lines, et cetera). Unless of course I know that the seller is a known good one that just happens to sell on ebay for more revenue.

ericfragola
08-14-2011, 11:01 AM
wow, love the feedback. very good info thrown out there. well i have the flange on the turbo already and it uses a 1/8th in fitting. as sang put it, it should only be 15 for the block adapter and 15 for the hose. which is why im complaining about 80 bucks being spent...and if im using the stock banjo bolt, it should be even cheaper cause i dont need a block adapter,

only reason why i wanted to use the stock banjo bolt is so that i dont have to hve a custom block adapter made. i figured it should be easy enough to find the proper parts to make my own kit. i just wasnt sure where to look.

@Tspoon- any idea what size the banjo fitting would be for the 185 block? so i can look it up on jegs and see what i can do for making my own kit. :)

i appreciate all the great feedback!

ericfragola
08-14-2011, 11:03 AM
im gonna try and find some online hardware/auto parts stores that sells banjo fittings. what is the inner diameter on the stock feed line? the circle part that goes around the banjo bolt :)

T-spoon
08-14-2011, 07:08 PM
As far as the size, I'm afraid I don't know. I never checked when I had a 185 (I remember despising that banjo fitting though, because with the hard lines it can be a bitch to get lined up if the lines are connected to the turbo). I do recall seeing plenty of banjo options on there, as well as the hard pipe to -AN adapters, if you wanted to use the stock banjo and wanted to cut it off and adapt it to braided line.

ericfragola
08-14-2011, 11:32 PM
Ohh so you're saying just use the stock banjo fitting and bolt and just cut off the excess and clamp a braided hose onto it? Honestly I'd rather just get the ats part instead of that because I don't like using clamps...not very reliable imo. Especially on something as important as the turbo feed line.

Sang
08-15-2011, 12:57 AM
Clamping on a braided hose to a pressurized line is a ghetto way of doing and I don't think that's what he meant. He probably restated what I said in his own words about adapter a fitting onto the hardline portion of the banjo to use proper -3 or -4 hose end.

I didn't know you were using a gen2 block, when you mentioned 165 I thought you were using a gen1 block. If you're using a gen2 block then just get the proper adapter from ATS or KO Racing. Straight fittings a 100x better than banjo bolts and there is plenty of clearance to use one.

T-spoon
08-15-2011, 03:00 AM
He probably restated what I said in his own words about adapter a fitting onto the hardline portion of the banjo to use proper -3 or -4 hose end.

More or less. I certainly wasn't advising using a clamp :)

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 04:25 AM
Ahh sorry, I did not make it clear what engine was being swapped :b sorry guys! but its.a.fully built (done personally by Marco aka v8killer) 185 block with 205 top end. :D

I guess ill go ahead and.just get.the proper fittings. I know it can.be done with the banjo but you're.right, having the proper part and not rigging something up is more reliable is garunteed to work. Thanks for the feedback everyone :)

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 04:39 AM
http://www.koracing.net/productimages/OilFeedAdapterGen2.jpg

Awesome! This is exactly what I was talking about needing. Thanks for reminding me about ko racing! But what does it mean by -4 or -3 AN fitting? In using a t3 turbo. So I'm assuming I'd be using a -3 fitting...just need some clarification. Also, now that I found the piece and already have the part that goes into the turbo, all I need is the hose. Any reccomended vendors? I'm expecting it to be around 20 bucks for a quality steel braided line. Let me know please :D

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 04:54 AM
Whoops. Here's the proper link. That was just the link to the picture lol.

http://www.koracing.net/viewproduct.php?folder=12&product=239

T-spoon
08-15-2011, 05:01 AM
Wow, $20 for that one adapter.. seems high

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 06:06 AM
Really? 20 seems high for the adapter? Compared to the ats kit which is just the adapter, steel braided line, turbo fitting, and a washer, 20 bucks for that seems awesome. Unless if you know somewhere cheaper ;D

Facime
08-15-2011, 07:07 AM
yeah if I just knew what the size/pitch was of the block side I could get that fitting at my hydraulic shop for under $5.

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 07:39 AM
Ahh I see. Well today was Sunday so when I called the hydraulic shops they were all closed. I'm gonna call tomorrow after school and see if I can.get something.

Banjo vs straight connector (like the pic I posted earlier) what's better? Most people try to stay away from banjo fittings. Anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Sang
08-15-2011, 01:45 PM
It costs $20 from KO because they machine in in-house IIRC. The gen2 block size is huge compared to gen3, IIRC it is M18x1.5, back when I put together my kit I couldn't find an earls metric adapter in hte right size without having to use 2-3 adapters put together. And the goodridge (?) replacement found in the UK is like $30 last I checked. XRP makes a lot of unique fittings too but they are just as expensive for the low selling products. Smallest adapter summit sells in M18x1.5 is -6AN.

Personally, I don't think $20 is too bad if your local hydraulic shop doesn't have carry it. Might not though, 1 because it's a large metric, and 2 being that it has to be adapted to quite a small AN size considering the bolt size it's coming from.

Another option is to take the stock banjo bolt and drill and tap the center for an NPT. This is probably the cheapest option even if you have to go out and buy the tap and drill. NPT to AN adapter are really cheap, like $3.

And being T3 doesn't equate to needing a -3AN line. T3 refers to the turbine side of the turbo, but it has nothing to do with the oiling. The CHRA does. If it's a journal bearing version, a regular old -3 or -4 sized line will be fine. If DBB then you'll most likely need the line plus the proper restrictor that the turbo manufacturer specified for that turbo.

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 03:42 PM
ahh, i see. thank you for the clarification sang. my turbo is a journal bearing.

as for the option of drilling out my stock banjo bolt, can i find the NPT to AN adapter at somewhere like home depot, OSH, or ace hardware? and would i just tell them i need a NPT to AN adapter and theyd know what im talking about? because i dont know much on the piece, except for the info you provided. also, knowing what NPT and AN stands for would help.

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 04:13 PM
heres some pretty generic hoses i came across. sellers have good reviews and have sold quite a bit (109) of these items.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/36-TURBO-OIL-FEED-INLET-LINE-KIT-T3-T4-T60-T61-T70-T04E-/220478673578?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33558d92aa#ht_3499wt_939

heres another link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MK1-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-90-96-Toyota-MR2-3SGTE-86-87-88-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUC IQ26otnQ3d1Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d2080535 342317484112QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ38033867619 6#ht_1640wt_970

these hoses are about 20bucks after shipping and taxes.

what do you guys think of me buying the hose from ebay and hooking it up to the KO adapter for a grand total of about 40 bucks? unless if theres any reason why i shouldnt use that ebay hose. if so, please point me in the right direction for a better quality feed line. thanks!

jaydog82
08-15-2011, 05:19 PM
there is a local shop here that makes custom ss braided lines, i think its called source. ill find out, iv heard that they have good pricing as whell as good product.

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 05:28 PM
Awesome. Thanks Jordan. Is it there in Martinez?

Facime
08-15-2011, 07:02 PM
NPT = National Pipe Thread. Its a tapered thread designed to get tighter the deeper you thread it. In automotive applications you most often see it for water fittings and sometiems for vacuum manifolds. Its in standard SAE measurements (1/4", 1/2", etc.)
AN = Air force/Navy, they are a 37 flare fitting. When you go to an industrial application like those found at a hydraulic shop they are called JIC (Joint Industry Council). Dimentionally they are the same, but JIC fittings, because they are made only to industrial standards rather than automotive or aerospace, are sometimes made to less exacting standards and are therefore cheaper. The number in an AN or JIC fitting refers to the size in 1/16th's (-2AN = 1/8", -3AN = 3/16" etc.)


edit: for NPT you should use thread sealant tape, for AN/JIC you should NOT.

ericfragola
08-15-2011, 07:22 PM
damn...quite a bit of info there facime.

i believe im just going to go with the adapter from KO, because i KNOW its the right part. and regardless, im still saving money by not going thru ATS. not to be negative or anything. theyre a great company, im just being a penny pincher. and ill get a steel braided line from somewhere else. although im just not sure where to get a quality one,

jaydog82
08-15-2011, 10:31 PM
ya i think it here in martinez, i am going to have them make me a ss braided oil drain line. i have not gotten a quote yet though.

Sang
08-16-2011, 02:05 AM
knowing what NPT and AN stands for would help.

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?48946-AN-NPT-Basics&highlight=

And no, you wont find AN fittings at home depot. You have to go to a hydraulic shop if you want to find it locally

ericfragola
08-16-2011, 03:34 PM
Ok, well I'm just gonna go with the proper piece and order the adapter from KO. Where should I get my steel braided hose from? I want a decently priced quality piece .

shreddr69
10-16-2011, 06:27 AM
Just wondering where this part is located on the block? Any pictures available? Thanks....

ericfragola
11-02-2011, 05:25 PM
I ended up going with buying everything from KO. They sold me a nice feed line, the adapter and another 90degree adapter to go in the turbo. All shipped for about $50.

Also, the part is located to the right of the oil cooler on the block and below the exhaust manifold.