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grifter30
07-19-2011, 09:54 PM
Where is a good place to pick up the little male/female blade connectors? The ones that are part of electrical connectors. I have some connectors that I'd like fix.

Also, does anyone ever try to purchase wires that are the same color coding scheme as what's already in the car? Like trying to recreate a wiring harness exactly as it should be. Does anyone know a good place to find wires that are the correct color code and gauge?

Thanks for the help.

temperacerguy
07-19-2011, 10:29 PM
I'm in the same boat as you... There are some wire suppliers, but for the color combinations (main/stripe) that are used in the factory harness, you have to have them custom striped. The smallest spool most of them will do this for is 100 feet. If you don't mind going with "standard" color combinations, most wire harness companies will be willing to help you out.

as for the "male/female blade connectors" you are talking about... are you speaking of the factory connectors and terminals? if so, the dealership can supply you with most of those, however they are expensive and toyota specific. If you are talking about the standard male/female spade connectors, you can buy them in bulk from Ebay.

grifter30
07-19-2011, 10:40 PM
The blade connectors I'm referring to are the metal pieces that are crimped onto the ends of wires and then inserted into the connectors. I'd like to have some extras of these. If you look in the wiring diagram BGB for the 5th gens, you'll see what I'm talking about on page 5 of How To Use This Manual. That shows the connectors I'm talking about at Part "G".

Disco Dan
07-20-2011, 03:23 AM
First of all, I wish I had had the money and time to do this when I did my harness. This is THE right way to do a harness. Get your terminals, get your wires, and crimp them, end to end, so you have a wire harness that is as close to OEM as possible.

So, to answer your question, at least partially:

The terminals you're looking for are called "open barrel", and I believe Toyota uses the AMP variety. Google search that and see what you come up with. You'll need the open-barrel crimping tool, which you may or may not already have. The wires, if I'm not mistaken, are all Sumitomo, and you can still buy them from them, with all the color/stripe/thickness options. Look at the wires on your harness. Some actually have printed labels (e.g. AEX 2.0, etc) and that makes it easy to find, but other wire you'll have to count the individual strands, plus gauge the thickness of the insulation, etc. This can also be determined by the type of colored bands that are on the wires. Again, looking at your wires, most of your engine wires are either unbanded, or have single or double brown bands at regular intervals down the insulation. Your cabin wiring typically has silver bands, and the insulation is thinner. This is where it gets tricky. You might have an 18 gauge wire, but is it made up of 7 thicker strands, or is it made up of 39 thin strands?

I'd start here for your wires:

http://global-sei.com/ewp/E/products/category/car_device.html

if, for nothing else, for reference. Look at some of the PDFs and you'll see how you can select everything, down to the color and the stripe, if desired. However, I don't know where you purchase it, and I doubt you can buy in small quantities.

Anyway, best of luck. I would love to be able to do this, but it would really require a garage and some sort of business to justify the expense, I believe. Let us know what you find.

temperacerguy
07-21-2011, 12:50 AM
Well Dan and everyone else...

I found a company that sells engine wire harness wire. They have "so many" color combinations in stock, and many more stock colors from the manufacturer in Europe. Anything that's not a stock color, they can custom stripe for me for very inexpensive...

I am going to order 30' of every wire color used in the standard NA market early ST185 harness. It is custom order so it's going to take about 2 months. After I get it, and use what I will be using, I will sell the remainder (which should be enough for 2 more full harnesses)

grifter30
07-21-2011, 05:54 PM
Would you mind sharing the company with us?

Disco Dan
07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
Yeah seriously. I'm jealous, now.

temperacerguy
07-22-2011, 01:20 AM
It's called British wiring. I've used them in the past when I built my TR-6. I explained the situation, and asked them for samples, and here was their reply:


Good Morning,

Thank you for contacting us. I don't keep much thin wall wire in stock, as I don't sell much of it. I will send a sample of both types of wire along with a list of colors that are available through special order.

Josh


British Wiring
P.O. Box 185
Bally, PA 19503
866-461-9050

They sell everyting by the meter (because their suppliers are all from the UK), however special orders take 6-8 weeks and you need to order a minnimum of 10 meters per color. Once the samples arrive, if they are good, I will be ordering 10 meters of the 62 different color combinations of wire needed to rebuild a full harness from scratch. That looks to be about a $350 order, but I am stupid that way.

david in germany
07-22-2011, 10:57 AM
Check out waytekwire also they have stock and do custom wires as well. I am uncertain what the minimum is though for an order.

temperacerguy
07-22-2011, 10:39 PM
waytecks pricing is 3x british wiring, without the custom striping.

I already checked.

temperacerguy
07-26-2011, 08:44 AM
OK, got the sample pack of the wire, and it's a perfect match for toyota engine harness wire (both sizes). However they forgot to send me the available color list. I have E-mailed them, and hope to have an answer soon.

temperacerguy
07-26-2011, 09:49 AM
OK, and found the terminals... as stated by Disco Dan, they are made by Sumitomo. Here's the data I found:


Terminals always begin with a 82998-#####. Terminals only come from Toyota with a wire attached to it. The weatherproof connecotrs will also have a seal with them. You will get whatever color wire they feel like supplying with it. The color of wire will not be consistent with the mating teminal. In other words, the 2.3 II male terminal could have a black wire with a red stripe but the 2.3 II female terminal could have a yellow wire with a brown stripe on it.

So that means that making a wiring harness with the terminals you can get from Toyota would lead to just another hack job, and your colors wouldn't match anyways... HOWEVER, read on....


Most connectors are made by Sumitumo electrical in conjunction with Toyota. ]
Thank you Disco, you are correct....


The terminals are Sumitumo type TS. Most of the connections you'll find underhood are 2.3 II type. Sumitumo calls them 2.3mm type TS 90. The injectors, igniter, sensors, igniter, injector resistors etc. all use the 2.3 II. The terminals, seals and plugs can be purchased from

wait for it........






Ballenger Motorsports site.

That's right.... Ballenger Motorsports (http://www.bmotorsports.com)

From pictures (and me starting to pull my harness apart)... I have found 3 different terminals used so far:

The sumitomo TS/SL as he puts above (in the ECU and most sensors)
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/images/thumb-100/CONN-11856.jpg.thumb_300x274_mat.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3100.jpg

The injector connector terminal
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_thumb.php?img=images/CONN-11656.jpg&w=500&h=322&wx=500&hx=500
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3095.jpg

and a 3rd style that has little side tabs on it and appears to be gold plated at the tip... So far I have only found it on the TPS connector, but I havn't dug that far... Here's a picture of it.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3101.jpg
Tweaked (aka phoenix tuning) calls this a "type S" terminal. Toyota refers to it as a "070 wire terminal" (I believe)

I will dig around some more later on, just wanted to share what I have so far... but I have to say, I am pleased as punch to find these terminals for 18 to 24 cents vs the $1 I have seen from a toyota specific vendor.

temperacerguy
07-27-2011, 06:06 AM
OK, further digging... Tyco Electronics seems to have damn near every terminal known to man, so they may have a version of this terminal... Also, I have burned out my retinas going through sumitomo's design spec's for all of their terminals. Perhaps this weekend I will get my calipers out and measure up these terminals so I can find out the exact sumitomo part numbers. Once I have those, I can probably cross reference them to an easier to find/use manufacturer.

Tecker184
07-27-2011, 06:25 AM
Im looking forward to see what you come up with, part numbers and websites would be great.

temperacerguy
07-27-2011, 08:11 AM
And now in my anal retentive, childish "I want I want I want" manor... I have now contacted Sumitomo in Japan directly requesting their help in getting the exact sumitomo part numbers... I may have to purchase LARGE quantities of some of these... If that's the case, I will offer the extras out to those in need.

grifter30
07-27-2011, 08:37 PM
Thanks for all of the work you put into this and thanks for sharing everything you've found out so far!

temperacerguy
07-28-2011, 12:37 AM
Yeah, it's this kind of reason I get none of my own projects ever done. If I ever complete this vehicle, only one or two people are ever going to notice that it has a custom engine harness on it incorporating the aftermarket sensors for the EMS and such with factory connectors., and NO ONE is going to notice that it's all new wire, NO ONE is ever going to notice that the terminals in the factory connectors are the exact same as came from the factory... However, it's these small details that bog me down in the build...

You don't even want to know what's going through my head with the AC system... heh heh heh (anyone have a 1990 era 4-runner compressor hanging around unused?)

Disco Dan
07-28-2011, 03:30 AM
Yeah, it's this kind of reason I get none of my own projects ever done.

Been there. Wait, still am. Anyway, if you don't mind, I'm going to live vicariously through you until this is done. Please pardon me if I get giddy with excitement at times.

Couple of things occur to me. You seem to have found the three types of female terminals you'll need. There are also a several larger spade female terminals for the alternator, fuse box, starter... maybe others. The terminals on the ECU end are considerably smaller than the 2.3mm ones, so make sure you've got those as well. You might want to get the adhesive goop they use to coat a spliced intersection. Also, most of these harnesses are actually made by hand at Sumitomo. They have these giant peg boards which can be configured to the manufacturer's specifications (see: http://www.sws.co.jp/en/product/wireharness/sws.html). So you should be able to produce something of near-equal quality.

As for the wires, just be sure you have the proper heat rating for the engine harness. The engine harness uses wires that are found pretty much only on the engine harness. The insulation is thicker in most cases, and is heat resistant up to a higher temperature. I learned this because I was considering using bits of wire from internal harnesses to splice into the engine harness (wanted to maintain color consistency and didn't have enough engine wire of the color), and learned from the Sumitomo spec sheets that the wires on the engine harness are these heat-rated types, different from the other wiring in the car (remember, brown stripes vs silver stripes). If you strip the wires you'll see what I mean. I don't know if this makes a big difference, but I figured there must be a reason they put this type of wire in the engine harness and almost nowhere else on the car.

And for connectors, get this http://swsct.sws.co.jp/components/en/0904components.pdf. Most of the engine ones are sealed.

You may have this already, but I think I still have the notes I jotted down for wire lengths from different points in the engine bay. This was for a 1993 3S-GE, so it may not work for you. I do remember that from the ECU to the end of the rubber accordion sleeve on the outside of the firewall, is about 64 inches. Another 8-12 to the split between the alternator and fuel rail... don't remember much else off hand.

Anyway, heck of a project. I'll be watching this one.

Disco Dan
07-28-2011, 03:35 AM
p.s. try this: http://swsct.sws.co.jp/components/en/terminal.asp?number_s=81003068hxs for that last terminal type you were talking about. The one with the tabs.

temperacerguy
07-28-2011, 04:18 AM
Been there. Wait, still am. Anyway, if you don't mind, I'm going to live vicariously through you until this is done. Please pardon me if I get giddy with excitement at times.

Couple of things occur to me. You seem to have found the three types of female terminals you'll need. There are also a several larger spade female terminals for the alternator, fuse box, starter... maybe others. The terminals on the ECU end are considerably smaller than the 2.3mm ones, so make sure you've got those as well. You might want to get the adhesive goop they use to coat a spliced intersection. Also, most of these harnesses are actually made by hand at Sumitomo. They have these giant peg boards which can be configured to the manufacturer's specifications (see: http://www.sws.co.jp/en/product/wireharness/sws.html). So you should be able to produce something of near-equal quality.

As for the wires, just be sure you have the proper heat rating for the engine harness. The engine harness uses wires that are found pretty much only on the engine harness. The insulation is thicker in most cases, and is heat resistant up to a higher temperature. I learned this because I was considering using bits of wire from internal harnesses to splice into the engine harness (wanted to maintain color consistency and didn't have enough engine wire of the color), and learned from the Sumitomo spec sheets that the wires on the engine harness are these heat-rated types, different from the other wiring in the car (remember, brown stripes vs silver stripes). If you strip the wires you'll see what I mean. I don't know if this makes a big difference, but I figured there must be a reason they put this type of wire in the engine harness and almost nowhere else on the car.

And for connectors, get this http://swsct.sws.co.jp/components/en/0904components.pdf. Most of the engine ones are sealed.

You may have this already, but I think I still have the notes I jotted down for wire lengths from different points in the engine bay. This was for a 1993 3S-GE, so it may not work for you. I do remember that from the ECU to the end of the rubber accordion sleeve on the outside of the firewall, is about 64 inches. Another 8-12 to the split between the alternator and fuel rail... don't remember much else off hand.

Anyway, heck of a project. I'll be watching this one.

Thanks, As for the Wire, The wire I am looking at is heat rated for engine bays (it's from the manufacturer of the looms for the UK manufacturers... No jokes about british electrical systems please :-) ), also the thin diameter is rated for 14a at 10 meters, and the thick diameter is rated for 25a at 10 meters, so it should exceed anything our engine sensors throw at it.

As for the terminals... I have just started digging into this... I have only about 10 minutes into looking at the terminals in the harness so far... The top picture is actually from an ECU plug (with the pink insulation). I am sure there are far more than I have pictured, and once I start digging into them, I will document everything found. I also will document each plug and the pinout for each.

Speaking of that... Rather than use the peg-board, I have a 4X8 sheet of plywood that I am using. I currently have 3 harnesses: JDM ST185RC, and 2 90-91 ST185 harnesses. One of the US harnesses is just going to be for pulling apart and using for parts, the other US harness is going to be my reference, and the RC harness is going to be just for tracing.

As for the adhesive goop. I know what you are talking about, but I'm not a fan of it. I am kind of anal about electrical connections. (my first custom built car had an EMS installed by a VERY reputable installer in California in the mid 90s... One of his splices in the harness came loose, grounded itself to the chassis, caught the harness on fire, then the rest of the car burned. If there needs to be a splice, I will be using a mil-spec splice which is a crimp butt connector with solder in the middle, then a hard PVC heat shrink over it... THEN, at every junction, I will be wrapping it with electrical tape, then heat shrinking the entire length between the junctions (I have 50' rolls of heat shrink tubing) Once the harness is completed, it will be completely water proof.

I will keep you all up to date as I move forward :-)

temperacerguy
07-28-2011, 04:19 AM
p.s. try this: http://swsct.sws.co.jp/components/en/terminal.asp?number_s=81003068hxs for that last terminal type you were talking about. The one with the tabs.

yeah, I looked at that one, but it's not gold plated at the tip....

temperacerguy
07-29-2011, 04:40 PM
OK, further update:

Just got word from the wiring supplier... They can supply what seems to be every color combination used and then some... I have not yet gone through the harness to mark down what wires are in the harness, but so far it's close... Here's the list: (Maincolor/Stripe)


B (black) B/G B/U B/P B/R B/S B/W B/Y

U (Blue) U/B U/N U/G U/LG U/O U/K U/P U/R U/W U/Y

N (Brown) N/B N/U N/G N/LG N/O N/R N/W N/Y

G (Green ) G/B G/U G/N G/O G/P G/R G/W G/Y

LG(lt Green) LG/B LG/U LG/P LG/R LG/P

O (Orange) O/R O/U O/G

K (Pink) K/B K/G K/W

P (Purple) P/B P/U P/N P/G P/LG P/R P/W P/Y

R (Red) R/B R/U R/N R/G R/LG R/P R/W R/Y

S(slate/Grey) S/B S/U S/G S/P S/R S/W S/Y

W (White) W/B W/G W/N W/O W/K W/P W/R W/Y

Y (Yellow) Y/B Y/U Y/N Y/G Y/LG Y/P Y/R Y/W

These are available in two different sizes. The small 32/.02 is rated for 16.5 amps. The larger 28/.03 is rated for 25 amps. So far it looks like we are in business!

temperacerguy
07-29-2011, 05:05 PM
OK, further question posed....

If I procured all the wires color combinations needed for an ST185 engine harness, would anyone purchase a "set" of bulk wire in the various colors? I figure it would be about 9 feet of each of the different colored wire (63 in all), and final cost would be around $140. I know that sounds like alot, but remember, that's 563 feet of wire for an average cost of 25 cents a foot.

I wouldn't be doing this to make a profit, as there is none, it's just to spread the costs to meet the minimum order per color.

Disco Dan
07-29-2011, 09:12 PM
I wish. Pre-marriage/kid, I would have given you an unquestioning yes. Now, I've gotta think of more than just me. Sorry!

temperacerguy
07-30-2011, 10:33 AM
I have a new favorite tool for this job... an ultrasonic cleaner!!! Purchased one cheap from harbor freight when it was on "super coupon" I've been using it to clean my rifle shells, but I found a new use for it.

Here is before:
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3103.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3107.jpg

and here is after (and still wet) a 4 minute cleaning bath in a mixture of hot water, a little vinegar, and drop of Dove dishwashing soap
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3108.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/DSCF3109.jpg

Not a spec of grease or grime.. If all the connectors come out this good, then I will just have to replace the few that became crispy and cracked. With new terminals and wire, I should have a custom "Like new" harness for under $170.... Well, a little bit more because I purchased a donor harness.

temperacerguy
07-30-2011, 10:41 AM
Further updates... There appear to be 2 colors in the engine harness that the wiring supplier does not have... (2 out of 63 is pretty damn good), I have not traced what those wire colors are for, but they would have to be substituted... :( (or I can pay for them to custom stripe........damn, just throught of that.... would those two wires in the harness being the wrong color bother me or not?!?!?!? ARGH, OH THE HUMANITY!!!) I hope they trace out to something I am removing... Like the Turbo VSV or cold start injector...

temperacerguy
08-01-2011, 12:04 AM
Alright... fun times tonight... going to hack the full harness apart and start documenting shell pinouts and types of terminals. Woo Hoo!

Sang
08-01-2011, 12:35 AM
I posted this in another thread...but since it had nothing to do with st215 ecu connectors I decided to post it here again since it seems more relevant with the direction this thread is heading:

FWIW - I think found 2 of the male pins for sensors. From just looking at the image they show for the terminal, these look to be the right ones for the male terminals on a -10876 female shell (usually used in the fuse box).

Here is a stock wire that I depinned from that connector:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/Sang_Han/48Terminal.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/Sang_Han/48Terminal2.jpg

Tyco/AMP Part Numbers:
917805-2 Large terminal (http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-amp-brand_917805-2.html?p=10529464)
917804-2 Small terminal (http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-amp-brand_917804-2.html?p=10529462)

Granted I don't know 100% for sure, but they look pretty damn identical to me. Unfortunately the one terminal is backordered for like 3-4 months...But now that I have the male pins, finding their female counterpart should be relatively easy.

Sang
08-01-2011, 10:24 AM
Edit: Just reread some of the older posts and I must've missed that you posted a source from ballenger for the TS/SL terminals. My bad!

Can find a decent amount of Sumitomo connectors here as well as the TS/SL terminals and seals
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/sealed.html

The company is located in Japan, but the guy running the show looks to be Canadian. So it should be all pretty streamlined since it seems he's pretty fluent in english and his webpage is in english. I found this site while running some google searches and the guys on Supramania have had good luck with them.

Edit: Whitle randomly searching through Tyco/AMP I found what looks about identical to the "Type S" Terminal. Looks like it's also used in the coolant temp sensor conector as well
171662-1 (http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-amp-brand_171662-1.html?p=10261288)

Also here:
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/109_172/products_id/680

Sang
08-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Here are part numbers for random things that I haven't been able to cross reference yet but are listed for a 4AG 20V (and some may be repeats of already listed ones from other posts)

Courtesy of mr220v (Board vendor on mr2oc I think)

Yazaki:

Igniter 7283-1056-30
knock 7283-1015-10
coil 7283-8226-30
airtemp 7283-1224-10
vvt 7283-7526-40

recepticle tab/terminal 7116-4025
seal 7157-3646

Sumitomo:

evap 6189-0249
injector 6189-0573
map 6189-6912
camposition (will update)
O2 (will update)

Tyco:

12pin ecu plug 917978-1
16pin ecu plug 917981-1
22pin ecu plug 917989-1
26pin ecu plug 917992-1
tps plug 178399-2
watertemp 178392-6


ecu recepticle tab/terminal small 175265-1
ecu recepticle tab/terminal large 175269-1

temperacerguy
08-02-2011, 08:48 PM
Sang, thank you so much...

Unfortunately, I am going to have to shelve this project for a few weeks... see my post in off topic for a reason... :-)