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View Full Version : Installed the FMIC today



Hookecho
07-12-2011, 01:02 AM
It makes a huge difference it this hot climate. It's nice not having to deal with heat soak and high intake temps anymore. It definitely boosts a heck of a lot better. I was running 16lbs with no problems.

Throttle response does suffer a bit with the front mount but not much. It's really only noticeable between shifts. Off the line you can't tell a difference. It's easily made up for by being able to run higher boost pressure. Once the system pressurizes it's on like a mofo.

The HKS SSQV is pretty cool. It's a loud surge of air. Kind of like blowing air from an air hose. Not a whistle.

The motor idles great, no stalling, and no backfiring. The BOV does have the recirculating adapter on it. So If I wanted to I could do that.

Pics of the install. I wanted to keep the crash bar so I decided to to notch out a portion and mount the intercooler to it. It will compromise the integrity of it but it beats having nothing.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0813.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0815.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0817.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0825.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0827.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0823.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0822.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0828.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0833.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0834.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0835.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0836.jpg

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 01:14 AM
Dang, That last picture made realize that I didn't realign the mounting bracket for the driver headlight.

METDeath
07-12-2011, 01:34 AM
Know how to fix that "laggy" issue? Get a bigger turbo ;p

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 02:01 AM
Yeah, a must do.

The Captain
07-12-2011, 02:16 AM
Nice!

4thgenceli
07-12-2011, 02:20 AM
How much of the actual intercooler is exposed to like catch air or whatnot? Only looks like maybe 6 or 8" right?

Mr. Babb
07-12-2011, 02:32 AM
nice

CollapsedNut
07-12-2011, 02:37 AM
That car has a turbo? Huh

Terracar
07-12-2011, 03:47 AM
Wait a second, you have the stock crash bar with RC bumper? Do you have any pics straight on, but closer than your sig? I would like the RC bumper, but do not want to sacrifice my safety for it or for it to look hideous.

-Terracar

DudeMan
07-12-2011, 05:59 AM
Terracar, here's a write up on installing the RC bumper over the stock crash bar.

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?30798-My-CS-Bumper-Install-LOTS-OF-PICS

Luni
07-12-2011, 07:03 AM
Actually the "lag" he feels is his turbo having to repressurize the system between shifts.

You actually GAIN performance if you remove the blow off valve. And before you go and say "well you need a blow off valve" consider this: Toyota didnt put one on the ST185 and their turbos last just as long as MR2 ones do that have BOVs stock. Just saying. The lag comes from the valve.

METDeath
07-12-2011, 07:44 AM
Actually the "lag" he feels is his turbo having to repressurize the system between shifts.

You actually GAIN performance if you remove the blow off valve. And before you go and say "well you need a blow off valve" consider this: Toyota didnt put one on the ST185 and their turbos last just as long as MR2 ones do that have BOVs stock. Just saying. The lag comes from the valve.

Would recirculating the air help more than the turbo upgrade? (Future reference)

Luni
07-12-2011, 08:37 AM
No. Bigger turbo is going to actually be laggier between shifts with a BOV.

BOVs honestly do nothing but reduce NVH. Unwanted noise. They are designed to help with a small amount of compressor surge that SOME turbo cars have. They arent put there to make the turbo last longer. Having air in the pipes between shifts isnt going to make the compressor wheel do a 180 and start spinning in the opposite direction. There has been no empirical proof that shows not running a BOV will cause premature bearing/shaft wear. Theres guys that run without them, and have been for years and torn turbos down and theyve had no odd wear on them compared to ones with BOVs on.

For real, Im considering ditching mine. Or at least installing a vacuum valve onto the feed line that controls my valve, so I can keep it closed when I want, but open it when I want (controlling whether it actuates and blows off or not).

Theres some really good reading on it on the MR2 boards.

Another thing to consider. Back in the day, Turbo F1 cars didnt use them. None of the turbo race cars used them. Mazda put it on the FD to "reduce NVH". Everyones gonna have their own opinion, but before you go yelling at me about how "stupid" it is to run without one, consider Ive probably owned a turbo car longer than you, and Ive most likely done FAR more research on it than you have, so use your brain before you try and school me.

METDeath
07-12-2011, 10:20 AM
Good to know, thus my asking for the sake of learning.

Luni
07-12-2011, 10:43 AM
When I was learning about turbos, we learned, it was spoken, BOVs helped prevent compressor surge. Thats true. They do. However, the nature of compressor surge or I should say, the different types of surge werent necessarily understood, or maybe not the nature, maybe more the effects. See, it was said, when you shift, and air is in there, the turbo "stalls" and stops moving thats compressor surge, a force of air is pushing back against the turbo, flexing the blades, flexing the center shaft, putting stress on the bearings, etc. However, the reality of it doesnt seem to support that. The reality of it is, sure it puts a little extra stress on stuff, but no more than running a few extra lbs of boost, or running a turbo outside of its efficiency island (think a stock CT26 at 17 PSI). One of the things about running a turbo outside of its efficiency island (which is what most OEMs do anyway) is the quicker the spool, the quicker the engine has to deal with it. Boost pressure isnt air being moved through the system. Its air the system CANT MOVE. So, when your turbo is pushing 15PSI during a pull, theres force applied backward across that compressor blade, the force is the resistance of the air to being shoved down the engines throat. That force is pretty significant too.

Lets look at a car like the SRT4. They use a 2.4 liter engine and a little tiny turbo. Look at the STI. Same thing. 2.5 liter engine, and a pretty damn small turbo. Putting such a small turbo on a large displacement engine makes it spool super fast, and it actually runs it out of the box, outside of its efficiency island, and it causes the turbo to surge. BOVs do nothing to help that surge, but the same tendancy to surge on spool, is going to happen during shifts, which the BOV is designed to help with.

Toyota pretty much did the opposite thing with a CT26. They put a huge compressor side on it and a small exhaust side, in hope the small exhaust side will spool the huge compressor side fast, and it does, however it too surges, and it surges between shifts, but with the history of alltracs, that Ive seen, they dont seem to have an issue with their turbos going out prematurely compared to SW20 turbos. So, that in my eyes is a huge finger pointing to the "we dont really need BOVs, we just use them cause they sound cool" reasoning Ive developed. Another thing Ive noticed on my personal cars, is the more boost I run, the more time it takes between shifts, so while it pulls harder when its on, it takes longer to recover from shifting with the BOV. Id honestly like to get some testing when I get my MR2 done with and without the BOV. All I need is a simple VSV type device I can connect to the vacuum feed line to the BOV so I can control when it actually opens or not. Then I can use a program like Dynolicious to do a couple back to back runs and see what it thinks about it.

I didnt mean to clutter up Bruces thread with this, its just that when I talked to him he said it was laggier between shifts but initial spoolup seems pretty untouched, so I immediately thought of the topics Ive participated in and read about in the past about where others question the need to use a blow off valve and quite a few others have ditched theirs entirely.

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 01:20 PM
I think I could unplug the vacuum line going to the BOV and it will not open. I did that yesterday and noticed that it didn't blow off. I didn't run through the gears though.

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 02:00 PM
Another thing I don't like is the bov makes that fluttering sound when blowing off under 10psi. I have the one with the adjustment stud on the back. The version 1.

CollapsedNut
07-12-2011, 02:23 PM
But BOV flutter is awesome!

Terracar
07-12-2011, 03:29 PM
Terracar, here's a write up on installing the RC bumper over the stock crash bar.

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?30798-My-CS-Bumper-Install-LOTS-OF-PICS

Yeah I know it can be installed over the USDM crash bar. The issue I have is nobody has ever posted a straight on view of the finished product. (example - white Celica that did the write up; it was always at an angle) Hook has a few decent straight on photos, but not close enough to see how it looked close up. However, since it isn't noticeable with the mesh, I suppose it wouldn't be all the visible much closer.

-Terracar

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 04:07 PM
Yeah, The expansion metal hides the crash bar. The middle rail of the RC bumper runs along the bottom of the crash bar. So it covers the bottom 2 inches of the bar and the rest of the crash bar fills the whole opening top of the bumper. If you didn't have the mesh you would see the crash bar. I fitted the bumper without the expansion metal and it didn't look bad. If you put fresh paint on the bar it wouldn't be that noticeable.

I took some closer pics for you. You can see the crash bar.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0839.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0840.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0843.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/100_0841.jpg

DudeMan
07-12-2011, 05:23 PM
Are those the factory mesh guards from Toyota?

I've been thinking of making a set of my own since its over 100 bucks for the stock ones..

Luni
07-12-2011, 06:40 PM
Another thing I don't like is the bov makes that fluttering sound when blowing off under 10psi. I have the one with the adjustment stud on the back. The version 1.

Then tighten the stud up. Thats what its for.

Sang
07-12-2011, 07:40 PM
That fluttering sound is most probably from the valve not opening enough to relieve the pressure fully, hence fluttering from compressor stall as most of the pressure reverts back to the compressor. You'd want to loosen the tension of the spring in this case. Tightening it would require more pressure to open the valve.

With that said...I just made myself a new pipe to replace the bov pipe I had. Looks a lot cleaner as opposed to using a block off plate. :)

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 07:59 PM
The stud was fully tightened so I backed it all the way out and tightened it half way in. It helped some.

Terracar
07-12-2011, 08:37 PM
Hook you rock! Best description and best pics. Certainly makes it very clear. I thought the crash bar hung low and blocked the lower portion. Thank you very much for the pics and the explanation.

-Terracar

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 09:04 PM
You're welcome.

The adjustment I made makes it blow of better in low boost. It still flutters some but it's like a double blow off. It makes a flutter and a whoosh at the same time. Which I find is normal.

CollapsedNut
07-12-2011, 09:11 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaaa, PSSTT, WAAAAAAAAAAAAA, PSSSSSSTTTTTT*grinding gears GRRRRRRR GRRRRRRR* WAAAAAAAAAAAAA PSSSSSSTTTTT
Look Im bruce

Hookecho
07-12-2011, 09:50 PM
Fixed the flutter.

I had used a T fitting to run a vacuum line to the bov. I ran a dedicated line to the bov and the flutter is pretty much gone. It still has a slight flutter when blowing off at 5/6 psi only. Seems a bit more responsive.

Hookecho
07-15-2011, 02:03 AM
Well, I noticed that my coolant temps are higher now. Kind of sucks to have to make that kind of a trade off.

temperacerguy
07-15-2011, 02:08 AM
Are you running the lower plastics? make sure to force ALL front air through that radiator.

BlueDragon
07-15-2011, 12:17 PM
yep that is exactly what happened to me, its really 2 problems amplifying each-other. The first problem is now the opening is larger in the front but your hood is still scooping air in so you have them fighting to both exit under the car, 2 all of the air entering your radiator is now warmer and going slower from having to go through your IC. The under-covers will help... ultimately you will probably get a CS hood as well. Or you could copy me and cut your scoop out and weld it on so its a vent... lol I hafta get pics up of that soon, just been so busy lately. Think I am the first to do that as far as I know...

Hookecho
07-15-2011, 01:44 PM
You're right. I forgot that i had not installed them yet. I still have to modify the plastics to fit around the charge pipe. I'll be doing that on monday.

ChrisD
07-16-2011, 02:46 PM
Nice! I'm in the process of doing mine too.

DudeMan
07-16-2011, 10:58 PM
Hey Bruce, did you have the stock grill inserts or are those home made?

I like the honey comb mesh more than the diamond.. And I don't really wanna pay over 100 bucks at 1stToyota.

Hookecho
07-16-2011, 11:47 PM
Idk if they are stock or not. They are so cheap and easy to get ahold of that I wouldn't pay big money from the dealer to get them. I bought the bumper from Bugs so I'd have to ask him.

Murgatroy
07-19-2011, 06:14 PM
Looks awesome. I want to drive it again now. Good tires, new suspension and a front mount...

Hookecho
07-19-2011, 07:30 PM
I installed the plastics but it made no difference in coolant temp. Doesn't really matter I guess. It's a fair trade off for cooler charge temps. A few degrees of higher coolant temps won't hurt anything.

Mr. Babb
07-20-2011, 12:50 AM
spal fans ftw?

ChrisD
07-20-2011, 01:07 AM
Get a TRD or ATS T-Stat.

Hookecho
07-20-2011, 02:47 AM
Thanks Chris!

ChrisD
07-20-2011, 01:42 PM
:)

I'm not going to start my own thread since this is in my project thread, but my FMIC is now in as well. No piping yet, but mounted.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/img_1825.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=20008)

Lagos
07-26-2011, 09:31 PM
Nice and clean install. I dig it.

Hookecho
07-27-2011, 12:11 AM
Thanks

Looks good Chris.

klapa
07-31-2011, 07:06 PM
That's a real clean looking install Bruce!

Don't you think the mesh will add to the coolant temps? Especially at highway speed that would seem to me to offer considerably more resistance to air flow.

I remember being up in central Illinois in the last part of my USAF A/D hitch - a common trick to get the car heated up faster would be to just put some window screen wire in front of the rad.

I can't tell by the pics - can you still gets the fogs in with the piping there? Mine came with an FMIC and the RC nose, but the piping on the driver side prevents inclusion of the stock fogs.

KoreanJoey
08-02-2011, 05:38 AM
Actually the "lag" he feels is his turbo having to repressurize the system between shifts.

Synchronic FTW.

KoreanJoey
08-02-2011, 05:43 AM
Am I seriously the only one looking at an aftermarket W2A?

ChrisD
08-02-2011, 05:54 AM
Been there, done that. I've had all 3 gt4 WTA's, now onwards and upwards. :)

vip09
08-02-2011, 07:18 AM
About time you guys starting going to front mount intercoolers. The difference is AMAZING.


Joey, I'm doing an aftermarket w2a setup in my MR2. Bugs did in his MR2 also.

Hookecho
08-02-2011, 01:06 PM
Don't think the fog lights would bolt up now. They don't fit the RC bumper anyway. I plan to install some after market ones.

As for the expansion metal in front of the intercooler, I would say that it is a slight restriction but I don't want any debris to damage the intercooler.

celica9303
08-02-2011, 04:42 PM
I was under the impression the stock under plastics for some reason didn't work with the rc bumper cover? I never could figure out why it was just what everyone always said.

+1 on the trd or ats thermostat. Trd radiator cap too

Hookecho
08-02-2011, 08:04 PM
They don't fit. The stock pieces fall 2 inches short of reaching the lip of the RC bumper. Before I installed the FMIC i used zip ties to hold it them to the lip. With the charge pipes now in the way I had to custom make a plastic panel.

819_ay
10-13-2011, 07:33 PM
pretty nice...

donteatbugs
10-21-2011, 07:25 PM
I thought I gave you my custom splash sheild/diverter for the CS bumper

Hookecho
10-21-2011, 08:12 PM
You did. I have it installed. I modified it a bit to accommodate for the charge pipe. Then took the credit.

UndaGrwnD
10-23-2011, 11:59 AM
looks very nice!

would be great with BLACK mesh, and why did you not clock the turbo ?

Hookecho
10-23-2011, 04:09 PM
Thanks. My FMIC has rear feed inlet/outlets. Clocking the turbo would make for too tight of a bend in the charge pipe.