PDA

View Full Version : Wastegate and heat damage, how to clock a rusty turbo?



T-spoon
05-25-2011, 11:29 PM
With the 7M I had a manifold that took the wastegate all the way down to the bottom of the engine bay and just dumped straight to atmosphere. With the 2J I seem to be stuck (for monetary reasons) having to use a cast manifold and a different wastegate fixed right to the bottom of the manifold. Am I running a risk of damaging anything under the hood if that wastegate vents out right there under the manifold or should it be ok? It does have a flange that could be welded to a pipe to run to the downpipe, but of course I'd have to take it to an exhaust shop for that as it's not something I have the tools or expertise for. If it's risky to run longterm, is it probably fine short-term to drive it to an exhaust shop that way?

My thoughts are that dumping exhaust out there would be a bad idea, but wondering if anyone has any advice/evidence to the contrary.

sloceli
05-25-2011, 11:43 PM
I do have a welder that I can bring down next time I come out and we can make a dump tube that will exit behind the tire or at least somewhere better than there.

Facime
05-26-2011, 12:00 AM
short term its fine and you can certainly drive it to an exhaust shop if you need just watch your boost is all. Long term you will want to at least make a dump pipe to direct it down and out of the engine bay. From my experience I recommend having it plumbed back into your down pipe if you dont want to hear it scream at you every time the gate is open. I ran open gate on my 7M with a 60MM turbo and a 54mm gate and it was LOOOOUUUUD!

MrWOT
05-26-2011, 12:04 AM
If you like breathing exhaust and burning your car to the ground this may be the mod for you!

All sarcasm aside, at least run a pipe so it vents to the side of the car, behind a tire would be a good spot.

T-spoon
05-26-2011, 12:41 AM
Aight, that's what I figured. It would actually be a very straight, short run to dump it into the downpipe, so I may go that route. That sounds awesome, Joel, thanks!

And yeah, the 7M setup with the 55mm gate was quite loud

T-spoon
05-26-2011, 05:17 AM
Ok, semi-related question. Does anyone know any tricks for rotating the center section of an aftermarket turbo? I loosened all the bolts and can clock the compressor housing easily, but I can't get the rest to budge. I need it to rotate because as it sits now the oil drain is facing towards the motor instead of straight down due to how it sits on the manifold. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't rotate, but I can't get it to move freely. I gave it a couple thunks with the rubber mallet and it seems to have moved a little, but still not free rotating, so I'm not really keen on thumping it anymore but I can't find any other fasteners or anything else that should be interfering.

MrWOT
05-26-2011, 05:24 AM
Some turbos have locating dowels on the housings. Pull the housing all the way off and see.

Facime
05-26-2011, 06:09 AM
yep probably a dowel pin. You will have to pull the c-clip and pull the housing off the center section and pull that pin.

T-spoon
05-26-2011, 06:14 AM
Are you talking about pulling the compressor housing off the front or something else?

MrWOT
05-26-2011, 06:27 AM
Yes, I'm saying you have to separate the rotating assembly from the housing(s), and remove the dowel(s) before you can clock it.

vip09
05-26-2011, 07:20 AM
T, I had my wastegate dumping under my hood, onto the front of my block the whole time I had my Alltrac. Never had any problems, except for soot all over everything.

T-spoon
05-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Alrighty well, hopefully only the compressor housing needs to come off because the bolts on the exhaust side loosen but are blocked from removing by parts of the rotating assembly. Guess I'll find out this evening. Thanks for the assistance and input!

T-spoon
05-26-2011, 03:48 PM
T, I had my wastegate dumping under my hood, onto the front of my block the whole time I had my Alltrac. Never had any problems, except for soot all over everything.

Yeah but.. I usually drive longer than 14.7 seconds, so I'm not sure I can use your experience...

T-spoon
05-27-2011, 04:11 AM
Well bugger... I'm lost on getting this rotating assembly to well.. rotate. Compressor housing comes off no problem, but the plate behind it can't come off. The four bolts on the back are out, but it is still held in by the compressor blades. I don't see any way of getting it off and not sure I would want to if I could (never had a turbo apart). On the other end, you can see in the second two pics there is no way to remove the bolts because some of them run into other parts of the assembly. What am I missing?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/t-spoon/Project%20Supra/001-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/t-spoon/Project%20Supra/002-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/t-spoon/Project%20Supra/003-2.jpg

Facime
05-27-2011, 04:27 AM
hmmm...its hard to tell from the pics. I would have thought that you cuold loosen all the bolts then separate the center section from the turbine housing by simply pulling on it then backing the bolts out the rest of the way. is there a large snap ring hiding in there somewhere? What turbo is it specifically? (brand/model) is there any production numbers stamped on it anywhere?

T-spoon
05-27-2011, 04:37 AM
Yeah, i can't seem to get the camera to focus on what I want half the time.. bleh. I can't see any other kind of fastener, just those bolts holding the "c" shaped flat washers down. I can't get the thing to budge in any direction in order to get the 2 mm or so that I need to back the bolts out the last couple threads. If there's a snap ring or anything it's hiding under the "c" washers. Unfortunately I didn't purchase the turbo so I don't know what it is exactly. It's something like a GT60 I think but.. just don't know. I believe it came from Majestic Turbo but that's about all I know. Didn't see anything stamped anywhere but wasn't really looking.. I'll check.

T-spoon
05-27-2011, 05:07 AM
Damnit. I got one of the washer/plate whatever you call it off and now I'm far worse off. The shaft has seized fast and won't move at all. There is definitely no snap ring or anything else holding the exhaust side of the housing onto the rotating assembly, and there's no way to get that gold plate off without removing the compressor fin assembly which I have no idea how to do. I appear to be screwed and maybe seriously damaged the turbo.

Looks like it's a turbonetics t4 most likely, btw. I can see HOW I would take the compressor wheel off if I could remove the top cone nut, but I can't imagine why this would be needed just to clock the turbo..

And everything I've read says I did what you're supposed to do, and they all say to knock it loose with a rubber mallet.. which I did.. but um.. noone said anything about the shaft seizing

Facime
05-27-2011, 06:07 AM
as far as i know it should just come off. but they are often rusted on, try a bunch of Blaster and putting rotational pressure on it while tapping with the mallet. Other than that I dont know what to tell you.

MrWOT
05-27-2011, 06:09 AM
STOP!

Put it back together. All you need are the housing seperated from the cartridge, just the housings, leave backing plate alone. Do NOT stress the shaft, VERY easy to bend.

Get some more/better pictures of the cartridge. You've got to get the hot side unbolted. Once all the bolts are loose as far as they will go, then chuck it in a vice and start beating the housing loose.

T-spoon
05-27-2011, 04:05 PM
STOP!

Put it back together. All you need are the housing seperated from the cartridge, just the housings, leave backing plate alone. Do NOT stress the shaft, VERY easy to bend.

Get some more/better pictures of the cartridge. You've got to get the hot side unbolted. Once all the bolts are loose as far as they will go, then chuck it in a vice and start beating the housing loose.

Yeah, that's what I did. I didn't do anything to the shaft (the backing plate was unbolted, but that's not attached to the shaft afaik). The compressor housing was off and the hot side bolts are loose. It is literally not possible to remove all of them without rotating the center assembly. The shaft seized when I was tapping on the center assembly and had gotten it to rotate maybe a quarter of an inch. I don't understand why it would move that much but still be impossible to move by any other means and have the shaft seized.

At the point it's at I have two options, keep banging on it and hope it moves where I want it and the shaft unseizes.. or take it apart and try to figure out why the shaft is seized. Neither sounds great, but since I don't even have the right tools to take it apart, I guess I'll be banging on it some more

Facime
05-27-2011, 08:02 PM
Well the housing is going to be a tight fit to the center section because its designed to seal metal to metal and of course both pieces have been heated and cooled so many times...If you have any way to heat it (propane torch?) that might help just dont over do it.


p.s. see if your camera has a macro setting. Its usually an icon that looks like a flower.

Facime
05-27-2011, 08:18 PM
Looking around the web its possible there is actually a gasket in there and of course its going to be stuck fast. It seems the majority of people got them separated using heat and PbBlaster. One suggestion was putting the whole thing in a 350 oven for 20 minutes. At this point I think you want to separate the two not just try to clock it, so you should be smacking the housing away from the center section all the way around 360

T-spoon
05-27-2011, 11:33 PM
Looking around the web its possible there is actually a gasket in there and of course its going to be stuck fast. It seems the majority of people got them separated using heat and PbBlaster. One suggestion was putting the whole thing in a 350 oven for 20 minutes. At this point I think you want to separate the two not just try to clock it, so you should be smacking the housing away from the center section all the way around 360

I knew I was fighting the ol' high temp iron problem that exhaust has, but the gasket I wasn't aware of and could definitely contribute. I'm going to go bolt the turbo to the manifold so it's nice and sturdy and see if I can't work the exhaust side housing away from the center assembly as you suggest.

T-spoon
05-28-2011, 12:03 AM
Boy am I relieved! I got it done. What happened is that I HAD started making progress loosening the rotating assembly from the exhaust side housing, but it was imperceptible and only on one side, which caused the whole rotating assembly (obviously including the shaft) to be sitting diagonally in the exhaust side housing. It was just enough that the exhaust side fins were locked against the side. With it bolted onto the manifold it finally wasn't going anywhere. I put a bunch of lubricant in the joint then tapped the assembly forward all the way around and then a few good wallops broke it free and I was able to clock it down where I wanted. Once that was done I put the "c" clip/washers back on and that lined everything back up. Shaft rotates smoothly and freely again and oil drain points straight down. Woot!

Thanks Facime and WOT if for nothing else keeping me from freaking out. You have no idea what that felt like, thinking I may have bent the shaft! (har har..)

T-spoon
05-28-2011, 12:05 AM
Also, would it be possible for an admin to add "turbo clocking" or something similar to the thread title so that the information in here is available for searchers should it be needed?

Facime
05-28-2011, 12:14 AM
Good deal, I kind of figured that was the reason for the shaft to stop rotating. The clearances are obvious tight in there on the wheels and when they are stuck its hard not to cock them (tee hee) a little taking them off.

now would be a good time to take that housing and have it coated, hint hint.

sloceli
05-28-2011, 12:18 AM
I changed the title for you.

Glad you got it fugured out.

T-spoon
05-28-2011, 03:48 AM
Thanks Joel.

Yeah, if only I could afford to get it coated. Still way too much money to spend that I have to.. coating is too much of an optional thing, as useful as it is