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klapa
05-14-2011, 02:03 AM
I have a 1991 - and my 1991 is actually a 1990 - as the DOM on my door pillar indicates 08/90. Yet - when you look at the parts that are different - the "borderline" is 08/90 - which makes me a little nervous being right "on the border" like that.

All of the above applies to my chassis only - the engine is a JDM transplant - of what year I have no idea. I know there is a number on the block but that number is buried beneath a swamp of hoses for now - and I'm not even sure I could figure out what engine I have from that number anyway.

I am starting to label things in my engine bay this weekend so I can take things apart and know how to put them back together . At some point I will know enough about this car to know where things go without labels, but for now I will play it safe and use the labels - as currently it is rather difficult to even SEE things in this engine bay - much less to sort them all out.

I think I will also take the center console out so I can get the part number off my ECU - then I can just search ToyotaDIY for the P/N. I'm thinking this is the easiest way to figure out what engine I have in this car.

Nitro_Alltrac
05-14-2011, 03:09 PM
Klapa, the ECU number won't necessarily tell you what year your engine is in the car. If they didn't use the JDM harness when they swapped it, chances are they didn't change the ECU. You could still be running the original unit. My car was swapped with a JDM engine but still had the USDM '92 ECU. It ran fine with that ECU in it. You can take the ECU out without removing the console. Just unbolt it from the brackets holding it in place.

As far as parts go, there really aren't that many differences. ECU/engine harness wise, there is a difference between 90/91 and 92/93. Nothing really major but swapping ECU's between years requires some repinning of the harness. I had to do this when I installed the JDM ECU in my car. The 90/91 use a different distrubtor cap and wires than the 92/93. The 92/93 have a different style boot on the cap end. The distributor is the same though and you can use the 92/92 set up on a 90/91.

As far as the chassis goes, pretty much everything, as far as I know, are the same. Toyota didn't really make any major changes during the 5th gen run. If there is a major difference, these are almost always called out in the parts catalog.

As far as your manufacture date, that falls right in line with the normal model change timing. As long as the year digit in your VIN corresponds with the right one for a '91, you're good. And like I said, there really weren't any siginificant changes between 90 and 91.

klapa
05-14-2011, 05:25 PM
Klapa, the ECU number won't necessarily tell you what year your engine is in the car. If they didn't use the JDM harness when they swapped it, chances are they didn't change the ECU. You could still be running the original unit. My car was swapped with a JDM engine but still had the USDM '92 ECU. It ran fine with that ECU in it. You can take the ECU out without removing the console. Just unbolt it from the brackets holding it in place.

Nitro - thanks for the reply. I think I have a JDM harness because my engine fuse box (located near the battery) has all Japanese writing on it - in addition to English. Neither of my other cars ('92 GT, '93 GTS, '92 ST) has this. That being said - this harness seems to be pretty hacked up. It is good to know that a USDM ECU would work with a JDM engine - as I have a spare '91 USDM 3SGTE ECU I bought from ShadowLife. I have not been through the differences in pinning in detail yet - though that Australian link has some very good info in that regard - along with ChrisD's site.


As far as parts go, there really aren't that many differences. ECU/engine harness wise, there is a difference between 90/91 and 92/93. Nothing really major but swapping ECU's between years requires some repinning of the harness. I had to do this when I installed the JDM ECU in my car. The 90/91 use a different distrubtor cap and wires than the 92/93. The 92/93 have a different style boot on the cap end. The distributor is the same though and you can use the 92/92 set up on a 90/91. As far as the chassis goes, pretty much everything, as far as I know, are the same. Toyota didn't really make any major changes during the 5th gen run. If there is a major difference, these are almost always called out in the parts catalog.

Well that is what I thought - but when I exchanged the passenger side front knuckle between my '93 GTS and '91 Alltrac, the bolts for the caliper to the torque arm were too long - by about 1/32". Thist caused digging a groove in the rotor due to the fact that the '93 bolts protruded about 1/32" past the caliper towards the rotor. The wheel spun just fine while up on stands - but when I set it down and drove it - a groove was dug on the top inside of the rotor. This groove is outside the area that the pads contact, so doesn't not effect braking or pad wear, but certainly this is not a "good thing". When I figured out what the problem was I examined the calipers in detail and did notice that there are different numbers cast in them.

So all that makes me a little "gun shy" about the parts interchangeability between a "90/91" and a "91/93".


As far as your manufacture date, that falls right in line with the normal model change timing. As long as the year digit in your VIN corresponds with the right one for a '91, you're good. And like I said, there really weren't any siginificant changes between 90 and 91.

Yea - well I remember experience from working on an "International Scout" - remember those? I had to replace the rear axle bearings one time and found from the dealer that no less than FIVE DIFFERENT bearing part numbers were listed for the same model! It seems that International tended to use whatever was "lying around" at the time they built the cars - so you essentially needed to pull the axles to figure out what you had. I don't think Toyota was so lax - but it is always bad when your own car falls right at the point of change - as then your car might be like a box of chocolates - you never know what you are going to get.

klapa
05-14-2011, 05:54 PM
In retrospect - possibly be problem with the caliper bolts could be due to some excessive camber situation on my front suspension - this might explain the difference between free spin and with the weight on the wheels.

In any event - certainly the casting numbers on the top of the calipers are different between the '93 GTS and the '91 Alltrac that I have - and both are ABS cars.

Yet - as I remember it - the P/N are the same at ToyotaDIY parts catalog.

T-spoon
05-14-2011, 08:12 PM
I would assume FAR less interchangeability between an alltrac and a GTS than between different years of the ST185 anyway. It sounded like you were asking about differences between years of the ST185 but your example is not only different year production runs but between an ST184 and an ST185 which is really a different question altogether.

Also in terms of chassis parts and production runs, give Toyota your VIN and they will give you the right part.

klapa
05-15-2011, 12:15 AM
I input the VIN for both my Alltrac and GTS to ToyotaDIY for part numbers - then I check at Toyota dealerships online like Lithia Toyota, and locally here a dealership with a website.

They all show the same P/N between an Alltrac and a GTS - or even a GT - the only differences in the P/N's being whether or not the car has ABS.

An example from Lithia Toyota:

Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
4773020410 $486.77 $0.00 $380.43
Brakes - Hydraulic system - Front brakes - Caliper
Caliper, celica, w/o turbo, gt, right, coupe, liftback 1992 - 1993

Add to Cart Contact Us
4773020410 $486.77 $0.00 $380.43
Brakes - Hydraulic system - Front brakes - Caliper
Caliper, celica, w/o turbo, gt-s, right, all 1992 - 1993

Add to Cart Contact Us
4773020410 $486.77 $0.00 $380.43
Brakes - Hydraulic system - Front brakes - Caliper
Caliper, celica, w/turbo, right 1990 - 1993


Note in the example above - the P/N is the same - with or without turbo - for the same year model car - here I entered my VIN for my 1991 Alltrac at ToyotaDIY to get the P/N - but note the "1990-1993" for the P/N and the designation "ST8*".

At Autozone - the P/N for a brake caliper for an 1991 ST185 is "C8395".

The P/N for the same for a '93 ST184 is "C8397".

So - IDK - but there is no "simple" answer I think - the old caliper I had on there was bolted with many "walmart" washers - when I replaced them with the stock bolts and washers from a '93 - along with a '93 knuckle - I had the problem I described until I used some washers as well - non-stock washers. If I read the Toyota P/N correctly - they should all be the same - calipers, bolts, washers, etc.

Maybe I missed something along the way reading the P/Ns..

So - something is going on here - and I would like to know what it is.


So you are saying that I cannot believe what I read online and I need to personally talk to a Toyota dealer - or what??

T-spoon
05-15-2011, 01:34 AM
Yes, that's what I'm saying. You can't believe what you read online all the time. The only way to be sure is to give the VIN to a competent Toyota parts guy and have him look up the part. If THAT's wrong, then it's just a fluke wrong part number or something.. but honestly that is a VERY rare occurance. I seriously doubt a stack of washers would be required stock. If that's what it takes, then 1 of 2 things are probably true - either the parts are wrong, or something in the system is bent/mis-aligned or in some other way not where it's supposed to be. Parts are really only complicated when you try to mix and match and interchange and change setups from stock.

klapa
05-15-2011, 03:00 AM
I did not need a "stack" or washers - just one, after I replaced the knuckle - the old knuckle had a "stack" of washers.

As mentioned - and as you have alluded to T-Spoon - perhaps there is a "problem" - specifically a gross alignment problem could cause this.

I cannot bring myself to call a Toyota parts guy and take up his time unless i am planning to buy my parts from him - and that is a rare occurrence due to the large cost.

The Captain
05-15-2011, 03:06 AM
The USDM motors use a four wire O2 sensor, the JDM's do not. If you use a US ECU with a single wire O2 it'll throw a code. However vice versa it will not.

klapa
05-15-2011, 08:56 AM
Yea - well I gots me some codes - but bigger problems right now.