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GTGreg
04-22-2011, 05:07 PM
Hello CT, I have a problem....

I have a 2000 Celica GT 1.8L 1ZZ-FE VVT-1 with 5 speed manual transmission, and about 125K miles at the moment.

I had been hearing a tapping/grinding sound for a few weeks. I could hear the sound through all gears however, they were more previlent in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear, with 5th gear being the loudest.

As it is an older vehicle, I assumed that the sound was coming from the engine, possibly lifters.

Well, while driving to work yesterday, something finally broke loose. When I backed out of my driveway, there was a pronounced grinding/screech. I grimaced a bit, but put it in 1st and drove off. There was a less significant sound for a few seconds, then back to normal.

I made approximatley 2-3 miles to the freeway, and then drove another 3-4 miles on the freeway, when traffic slowed. When I let off of the accelerator, I heard the same grinding/screechsound again, so I pulled off of the freeway.

While trying to get off the freeway, it seemed like the transmission was slipping, and it got difficult to shift through the gaers.

I pulled into a parking lot, jumped out and looked underneath the car. There was no fluid leaking, and no visible indications of any damage. Ultimatley, I decided it would be best to try and get the car back to the house, which I did, but there was now a near constant grinding sound.

Driving for the few miles back home, I noticed that it was difficult to shift gears between 0-15 mph, but got easier to shift between 15-30. (I did not go much more than 30mph). While driving, I noticed that the sounds were less pronounced while under a load, and much louder when I let off of the accelerator. When I parked the car, I again checked for any fluid leaking, and there was none visible.

I used my girlfriends mothers car to go to work, and my girlfried had a friend of a friend come over to look at my car, (bless her heart).

Anyway, this guy is apparently a mechanic of some sort, and told her that my transmission is shot.

Now, to be perfectly honest, the last car I worked on was my 1971 GTO, and I am admittedly unfamiliar with imports, or front wheel drive cars for that matter. I am disinclined to just take this guy's word and try to find another transmission before I have done a little more research on my own.

I have started searching through the forum for information, and I have cracked open the "big green book" while I am at work. I am hoping that I might get some insight from you guys as well, to perhaps confirm if it is the transmission, clutch, perhaps drive axles.

Any insight or suggestions would be greatly appriciated!!

Thanks in advance!

GTGreg

Smaay
04-22-2011, 05:24 PM
yep sounds like either the tranny is shot or hopefully its only the clutch broken. one way or another the tranny has to come off.

Terracar
04-22-2011, 05:29 PM
I would vote more for the clutch being the culprit. In my experience when a tranny goes - it goes and you know it. With the slipping and screeching - I would vote clutch

-Terracar

4thgenceli
04-22-2011, 05:35 PM
Yep, sounds like pressure plate and/or disc went out.

With the engine off, can you run through the gears?

alltracman78
04-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Sounds more like clutch T/O bearing than tranmission.
Either way the trans has to come off.

GTGreg
04-22-2011, 06:27 PM
Thank you All, I sure do appriciate the quick response!

If possible, is there a way that I can confirm wether it is the clutch or tranny? I intend to take the car to the repair shop, as this is most likley something that I am not equipped to take on myself, however I sure would like to be able to tell the shop what is wrong, and not just tell them its broke. :) or have them replace the tranny if it is not needed.

Oh man, there goes the tax refund!! Surley be a little less expensive to repalce the clutch only....although if the tranny is gone, I will probably want to replace the clutch regardless.

GTGreg
04-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Yep, sounds like pressure plate and/or disc went out.

With the engine off, can you run through the gears?

Yes, I can, but it is difficult to run through all gears, it feels rough.

GTGreg
04-22-2011, 07:48 PM
Has anyone used a Ralco RZ Stage 1 clutch kit?

I fond one at Horse Power Freaks for $111.59 including Stage 1 Heavy-Duty Pressure Plate, Ralco RZ Stage 1 Full Organic Street Disc, Release Bearing, Pilot Bushing, and Alignment Tool

http://http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Ralco_RZ/Clutch/Clutch_Kits/Stage_1_Full_Organic/16826

Smaay
04-26-2011, 02:55 PM
never heard of them, we dont need a pilot bearing in the 7th gen.

you are setting yourself up for getting ripped off going to a shop. there are a few threads on newcelica.org that have pictures and details on how to change the clutch. i have a a few myself showing how to do everything. bring some friends over and beer and do it yourself

Doowstados
04-27-2011, 06:49 AM
Sounds like my Mom's old car did when she neglected to add tranny oil for a few years. Check that just for shits and giggles.

GTGreg
04-28-2011, 10:28 PM
there are a few threads on newcelica.org that have pictures and details on how to change the clutch. i have a a few myself showing how to do everything. bring some friends over and beer and do it yourself

Thanks, I will look them up.


Sounds like my Mom's old car did when she neglected to add tranny oil for a few years. Check that just for shits and giggles.

Thanks, I will try this as well!!

GTGreg
05-09-2011, 07:36 PM
OK, its terribly embarassing, but I am going to have to show the full extent of my ignorance with these questions!! I seem to have the "fecal touch" in full effect, and I am still struggling with my transmission/clutch issue. So far, I have yet to determine if my problem is the clutch, or the transmission.


you are setting yourself up for getting ripped off going to a shop. there are a few threads on newcelica.org that have pictures and details on how to change the clutch. i have a a few myself showing how to do everything. bring some friends over and beer and do it yourself

Smaay, I looked at the suggested guides on newcelica.org, and while very well done, I cant help but feel under-qualified to attempt this on my own. I mainly work with computers, and have been involved with project estimating for 20+ yrs, most of my friends are worthless with tools in hand. After having my brother-in law come over attempt to "help" me this weekend, I doubt that I will be letting him anywhere near my car anymore, not even blindfolded and handcuffed in the cargo area.


Sounds like my Mom's old car did when she neglected to add tranny oil for a few years. Check that just for shits and giggles.

Agreed. Sounds logical, eliminate associated fluid levels as a potential cause, so on to my novice questions:

I looked under the hood and I could not seem to find where to check the clutch fluid level. After looking through the repair manual, I believe the the clutch and brakes share the same resivior. Can someone please confirm this?

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/Resivior.jpg

Next, to confirm the transmision oil level, I need to get under the car, remove the fill plug, and see if I can "feel" the transmission oil with my finger.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/Drain-FillPlugs.jpg

So, I moved the mother-in-laws car out of the garage, and pushed my car up the driveway, and into the garage. Broke out my floor jack and jack stands, set the parking brake, and chocked the rear wheels. I again refered to the repair manual to determine the correct lift points.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/LiftPoints.jpg

And also the correct jack position:

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/JackPlacement.jpg

Well, the underside of the car looks more like this.......

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/Celicaundercarriagefront.jpg

So, obviously, the undercarriage does not look like the illustration identifying the primary lift points, so where do I put the jack? Do I use the support crossmember?

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/Celicaundercarriagefront2.jpg

4thgenceli
05-09-2011, 07:48 PM
Feel free to txt me, I could swing by a day after work or a weekend (sat) and give a hand.


For all the cars I've had, I was able to jack them up at the front on the crossmember. This generally gave me enough clearance to get the car up to a point where i could stick a jack stand under each side, move the jack back and lift even higher.

You can follow the line from the clutch slave cylinder (usually on the front of the transmission) back to the firewall. Wherever it connects to is the reservior for the fluid (usually it is just the brake fluid resovior).

GTGreg
05-09-2011, 10:13 PM
Well, 4thgenceli, I dont think I would be able to live with myself, knowing that as a male of the species, I needed to have someone help me jack up my car!! However, I certainly appriciate the offer.


For all the cars I've had, I was able to jack them up at the front on the crossmember. This generally gave me enough clearance to get the car up to a point where i could stick a jack stand under each side, move the jack back and lift even higher.

You know thats what I was thinking, I seem to remember crawling under every car I ever had growing up, but it has been awhile. I think what was causing me to question myself was all of the plastic splash guarding, I mean, I've been under a few cars but never seen that under the car. And to be perfectly honest, this picture wasn't very helpful either, probably does more harm than good:

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/JackPlacement.jpg

When I saw this my first thought was WTF, they cant want me to jack this thing up by putting the jack under the oil pan?? It felt dirty and I didnt want to do it....


You can follow the line from the clutch slave cylinder (usually on the front of the transmission) back to the firewall. Wherever it connects to is the reservior for the fluid (usually it is just the brake fluid resovior).

Cool, appriciate the confirmation on the brake/clutch resivior, and if I am good using that "butterfly" shaped crossmember until I can get the jack stands under the (2) support points behind the front wheels, I should be good to go!!

4thgenceli
05-09-2011, 10:34 PM
Actually,that picture of where it appears to be the oil pan looks like it's the rear of the car. There is a funky lil' square knob back there that can be used to jack up the rear of the car from the center.

GTGreg
05-10-2011, 12:08 AM
It all starts to make sense......

Thanks for that!!

donteatbugs
05-10-2011, 01:00 PM
clutch and brake resivoure are the same. i usually jack the car up one side at a time. but i have jacked i up from the front of the support brace too.

Smaay
05-10-2011, 06:14 PM
there is a hook loop looking thing right in front of the middle of the car. its right under your radiator, thats the perfect place for jacking up the front of a 7th gen.

GTGreg
05-10-2011, 11:09 PM
Well, again thank you all for your valuable insight! I will post any progress, it will likley be slow as I am stupid busy with work ATM.

Smaay, I did notice the "hook loop looking thing right in front of the middle of the car". That is exactley where I was going to put the jack before I noticed that said "hook loop looking thing" was not identified as a "useable" jack point on this picture:

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k581/gto6/LiftPoints.jpg

Anyway, I have my doubts that the cause of my problem will reside with the clutch or transmission fluid levels, I think it is mostly just wishful thinking on my part.

I have been looking around locally, can anyone recommend a "reputable" repair shop? I had previously been taking my car back to the dealership for any service, but have had some mixed results with them. I mean, I am comfortable in that they do seem to know about the car, but the last few repairs they did for me has given me pause for thought.

1st, the drive belt tensioner snapped, so I took it to them to get it fixed. During the process of replacing the tensioner, they ended up snapping off one of the mounting bolts into the block. They did eventually make it right, but I was disapointed that the charged me to drill out the broken bolt. So, I paid for the extra labor, and I ended up waiting for an extra day while they ordered a new bolt.

Next, I needed CAT Converters, and the dealership wanted something like $3,000.00 for parts and labor to replace them. So I decided to take it back to the place where I bought the car, and they refered me to a local shop that did the work for $300.00 (and a few beers).

4thgenceli
05-10-2011, 11:52 PM
Bring it by my place :P

I honestly haven't taken my cars to a shop for a long time. If you know what the problem is, I frequently use this lil' mexican llantra shop that I've been a frequent/regular customer of for a decade. Never had an issue with their work.

They have one at 7th street just south of Dunlap (across from Autozone), and also one at 43rd & Northern (behind-ish the Sonic). Also, Franks Auto Repair was very reasonable years back when I couldn't get my old '89 to pass emissions. Took it there, a week later it was passed. Took a while, but my wife was good friends with them (as she used to work at the Ford dealer down the road) and gave us a great price. He's out near downtown Glendale at 59th and Glendale.

GTGreg
05-11-2011, 05:12 PM
Hello Again,

Well, I have made progress, and I believe that I can now confirm that it is indeed my transmission that has failed, and not the clutch.

When I got home last night, I checked the level in the brake/clutch fluid resivoir. It was a little low, but not bad, so I filled it to the full line. Next, Iwent ahead and got the car up on the jack stands. I removed the splash shield, and removed the fill plug. When I stuck my “pinky” finger into the fill hole and pulled it out, my finger was coated with oil. So, best I could tell, the oil level seemed to be OK however, as I had the car up on the jack stands, and had already purchased (2) qts of SAE 75W-90, a drain pan, and a manual transfer pump, I decided to go ahead and replace the oil anyway, and proceeded to drain the oil from the transmission.

I replaced the fill plug, and the situated the oil drain pan under the car. With the drain pan in place, I removed the drain plug. Then, I slowly backed the fill plug back out. As the oil was draining, it seemed like I could hear solid “chunks” landing in the drain pan, and when I looked at the oil that came out of the transmission, I noticed that the oil was very dirty, and in the bottom of the drain pan, there was a fair amount of metal shavings/filings.

After the flow of oil had stopped, I wiped off, and then replaced the drain plug, and then lowered the car off of the jack stands. Then, using the manual transfer pump, got (2) qts. of SAE 75W-90 back into the transmission, and replaced the fill plug.

When I attempted to start the car, found that the battery had since died (it was past 2 yrs old, so I had a feeling it was just about time for a new one, why not…). So, I went to pull the battery out. In pulling the battery, I found that there was some corrosion on the negative terminal. When I attempted to loosen the terminal, the bolt snapped, and is still jammed in my 10mm socket (I spent a good 10 minutes but could not get the broken bolt out of the socket). Anyway, I went ahead and worked the terminal loose from the battery, but could not get rest of the bolt out of the terminal. Went ahead and pulled the battery out.

I then hauled ass over to the Auto Zone and purchased another battery, and a new negative terminal. I got back to the house, got the new battery and negative terminal installed, and then started the car. I was surprised to hear no noise from the transmission. I stabbed the clutch, which felt OK, and had good pressure, and noticed that I was able to move through all of the gears quite easily. I went ahead and put it in reverse, and backed out of the garage.

I was wanting to confirm that all was working, so the girlfriend hops in the car with me, and I went ahead and drove the car up and down the street a few times. I noticed that the car felt “different”, almost like there was a little clutch “slipping”, but there were no awful sounds, up until the last pass up the street, when I started to hear a bit of grinding. At that point, I decided it was a good time to go ahead and get the car back into the driveway.

So, at this point, between the metal shavings in the oil, the “feel” of the clutch, and the now present “grinding” sounds, I felt that the problem was most likely the transmission.

SO, I am pulling the car back into the driveway, my girlfriend hops out of the car, runs to the front of the car, and starts with the “airport worker” arm movements. I understand she is trying to help, bless her little heart, but “fucken A”, really!!. She has me back up, then pull forward, then back, then up again, and I am getting a bit frustrated with her, and finally, on the last back up, it sounded like I ran over something, and I found that I was no longer able to move the shifter.

That’s when I shut the car off, armed the alarm, and called it a night.


Bring it by my place

I honestly haven't taken my cars to a shop for a long time. If you know what the problem is, I frequently use this lil' mexican llantra shop that I've been a frequent/regular customer of for a decade. Never had an issue with their work.

They have one at 7th street just south of Dunlap (across from Autozone), and also one at 43rd & Northern (behind-ish the Sonic). Also, Franks Auto Repair was very reasonable years back when I couldn't get my old '89 to pass emissions. Took it there, a week later it was passed. Took a while, but my wife was good friends with them (as she used to work at the Ford dealer down the road) and gave us a great price. He's out near downtown Glendale at 59th and Glendale.

WOW!!, you are almost in California! I havn't been out on that side of town in awhile! So, Im guessing that you don't happen to have an extra 5 spd manual transmission lying around do you? lol

Guess I am going to start out ordering a new clutch. I have not had much luck locating a used/refurbished manual transmission (so far, I have checked Craigslist, and a few online parts places, and a local outfit called "Trans-Plant Transmissions". I have founs several automatics, but not a single manual. So, I assume I will need to find a place that can re-build my current transmission.

4thgenceli
05-11-2011, 05:34 PM
I don't live in west phoenix, I'm actually south-east. I grew up in Glendale, but live out (for now) in Queen Creek (we're working on getting a place around my old stomping grounds though).

Smaay
05-17-2011, 06:36 PM
i have a freshly rebuilt 6 speed ill sell ya for 1800 installed. if you can get the car to me, ill install it and even a new clutch for you while im at it. 6 speed is a nice upgrade on a GT. something to think about...

as for the shavings, thats normal, think of all that metal on metal contact going on in there, but the chunks, thats a bad thing! your clutch might be ok, im leaning toward tranny now.