PDA

View Full Version : e85 conversion?



ericfragola
04-21-2011, 04:40 AM
whatsup celicatech! i wasnt sure where to post this question so i posted it here. so heres my situation. i have an st165 with a 185/205 swap. fullllllly built, just waiting on funds for my twin disc clutch. so as an altermative to my beastly build, im daily driving my 86 gt hatch. the gas milage is ok but as everyones been saying..."holy gas prices batman!!!" which is true. it effin cost me 47 to fill up on 87 and i fill up once a week.

ok from my understanding to run ethanol all you need is about 140% more fuel flow which would require basically bigger injectors and fuel pump.well, since im going ethanol in my alltrac and upgrading my fuel system, i was wondering if i could take my 440cc injectors and stock 200lph fuel pump and throw it in my celica. it sounds simple enough but i know theres gotta be some sort of catch to it. someone please enlighten me on a e85 conversion for my DD. i dont want any power, my car is bone stock and i want to keep it that way. im just looking for cheaper gas in other words. :)

also, anyone know what the stock injectors flow at on a 2SE motor? it only has 97 horses so im assuming theyre quite small.

The Captain
04-21-2011, 05:41 AM
Since the name of your thread is "e85 conversion?" I'm going to go that way. Ethanol does more damage to the environment and is more unsustainable than gasoline. It takes 22 gallons of water to make a gallon of ethanol. The government subsidies make it cheaper than it really is and fuel for our cars will compete with bread we need to eat. Once we drain the Ogallala aquifer and the government decides to back out of subsidies ethanol will be $20 a gallon.

I'd rather have $5 gas than $5 bread.

http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Oc-Po/Ogallala-Aquifer.html

ericfragola
04-21-2011, 06:16 PM
Definately not the answer I expected...but if it can be done with little modification, then it can be easily converted back if it does go to 20 bucks a gallon.

Nitro_Alltrac
04-22-2011, 12:13 AM
To run alcohol much above the mix in standard gasoline, you need to do more than just add more fuel. You need to change all of the rubber lines and seals as alcohol will eat the rubber used in gas engines. They build E85 engines at the Toyota engine plant I worked at and there was a good bit of difference in the parts. Internally, the same, but the injectors were different, the o-rings and seals were different, all of the fuel lines were different. It's not as simple as just changing injectors and fuel pump. You'll probably also need to look at the fuel maps and timing as well.

ericfragola
04-22-2011, 01:23 AM
i forgot about that, changing all the hoses and seals would be a must. but what about the ecu? from my understanding, the stock one can handle e85 correct?

Nitro_Alltrac
04-22-2011, 03:30 AM
Not 100% sure. The car should run on e85 but you won't get the full benefit of it I would think. The ECU most likely won't have any tunes for e85 as that wasn't an option back when our cars were built. Maybe someone more knowledgable on the ECU side will chime in.

The Captain
04-22-2011, 04:29 AM
i forgot about that, changing all the hoses and seals would be a must. but what about the ecu? from my understanding, the stock one can handle e85 correct?

Nope. The stock ECU uses the O2 sensor to run stoich in closed loop mode for gasoline. E85 it'll read lean and the stock O2 sensor would send that info to the ECU. Which would try to adjust the mixture by injecting the programmed amount of gasoline to correct it. Which would of course fail and result in a CEL. e85 has less energy in it so you need bigger injectors. Around 25% larger. There are kits out there for around $500 for bigger injectors, a piggyback ecu of some sort or an injector pulse width modifier.

Oh yeah, and since E85 has 20% less energy than gas, you'll lose around 20% fuel mileage. Higher flow=less mpg's.

Good luck.

Nitro_Alltrac
04-22-2011, 04:35 AM
Thanks John. I was thinking there was something with the ECU that wouldn't work right.

The newer flex fuel vehicles have the programming to handle either.

vip09
04-22-2011, 07:07 AM
The only good use for E85 is making power. If you aren't using it to make power, don't use it.

I am definitely not an E85 hater.. I used it in my Alltrac and LOVED it. I will be using it in my MR2 when I finish that build.

Stick with 87 in your Celica.