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View Full Version : im with luni now, i <3 gen3 efi with my exhaust cam -6*



lalojamesliz
04-17-2011, 02:18 PM
Wow what a difference it makes adjusting that stock gen2 exh cam 6* retarded! I wasn't to happy with the performance the gen3 efi gave me since I switched over but I knew already I was going to loose some power in the upper rpms. I drove it for the first time last night with my cam at -6*. I told my wife ill be back in a few minutes because I wanted to try my car out and I finally returned 1.5 hrs later because it was fun to drive my all-trac again :laugh: it idles a little rough and my boost gauge now reads -16 vac and it idles I bit lower but who give a shit its fun to drive again at 17 psi :) my mods are : st205 ecu,turbo, i/c, k&n cone air filter, exh cam -6* and wonderful 91 octane :) now to find a awd dyno near by to see what I make :)

ChrisD
04-17-2011, 02:37 PM
Nice! Raise up the idle a bit and it should smooth out. Glad to hear you got it running good. :)

Carolina91GT-S
04-17-2011, 03:59 PM
I have the parts for this upgrade and plan to put them on after it goes back together after paint. Is the 6* retard on the exhaust cam a typical change to make with the gen 3 upgrade? Was there a thread about it that I missed? or is it something you discussed off forum?

~Chris

ChrisD
04-17-2011, 04:08 PM
Basically the gen 3 exhaust cam is identical to the gen 2, BUT is 6* retarded. So by retarding your gen 2 6* you achieve the factory gen 3 set up. Also it has been found that retarding the exhaust cam on gen 2's yields power improvements even without the gen 3 EFI.

Carolina91GT-S
04-17-2011, 05:15 PM
hah! I knew the 6th gen stuff was retarded compared to us. Now there is proof.

Guess I need some adjustable cam gears, should be cheaper than a 3rd gen exhaust cam

~Chris

lalojamesliz
04-17-2011, 06:09 PM
From what I remember the gen3 exhaust cam is the same as the gen2 but the gen3 is 4.5* retarded and the gen3 intake is 2* advanced with .5mm more lift but messing with the exhaust cam results in more power and I went 6* retarded instead of -4.5* because ATS showed that was the usual ideal setting for the most power with the gen2 cam. To raise the idle I just mess with the throttle adjustment next to the throttle body right ChrisD?

Maruki-kun
04-17-2011, 06:11 PM
does it sound different? I want some lobe!!!

lalojamesliz
04-17-2011, 07:01 PM
Lol I haven't listened to it much other than when it was warming up and I was walking around it and in my car while driving but it did sound a little different

ChrisD
04-18-2011, 05:01 AM
^^re the above, I think your timing reference is correct at 4.5* not 6. :)

For the idle, yes there's an adjustment screw on the TB. :)

CollapsedNut
04-18-2011, 02:11 PM
I assume the same will work on first gen engines?

Luni
04-18-2011, 06:30 PM
Dont know nothin bout no first gen engines.

lalojamesliz
04-19-2011, 03:43 AM
idk either, i barely knew what i was doing with my car lol

Hookecho
04-19-2011, 04:13 AM
Where in the power band is the difference noticed?

I like the idea but i wonder how it would change the the characteristics of the stock 2nd gen. Will it have more low end or top end? Does it pull better to redline?

Luni
04-19-2011, 04:45 AM
Both Brucie. But the difference is really felt on the Gen3 ECU. Without the cam retard, it loses all of its power on the top end past 6k. With the cam retard it pulls to redline like its supposed to (assuming you have a 20b or better)

lalojamesliz
04-19-2011, 10:36 AM
I have a 20b and it does pick up power all over :)

Hookecho
04-19-2011, 12:50 PM
So is this worth doing on the 2nd gen without using the 3rd gen electronics?

ChrisD
04-19-2011, 12:59 PM
1st gens haven't been tested as much, but there very well might be room for improvement.

Here's the ATS dyno. Good increases with no losses.

http://atsracing.net/Content/Images/Products/atscamgearsdyno.jpg

More gains the more mods you have, but a good stop gap if you don't want to go with full on cams yet.

MrWOT
04-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Yes, it will work on the 1st gen.

CollapsedNut
04-19-2011, 09:54 PM
Innnnnnnntessssting

Luni
06-03-2011, 06:11 AM
Hellz fuckin yeah!

Sang
06-16-2011, 03:10 AM
One of you fools needs to head out to a dynojet so we can all see! To date, the only gen3 efi dyno i've seen was from a couple years ago and it wasn't all that flattering to say the least...I'll see if I can find the graph again.

Maruki-kun
06-16-2011, 03:17 AM
this would work well on a stock gen2 with bolt ons and a JDM ECU?

Sang
06-16-2011, 06:27 PM
Invest in a better turbo first.

Maruki-kun
06-17-2011, 12:09 AM
I consider my 20b a bolton.

ChrisD
06-17-2011, 04:42 PM
One of the big things you gain from gen 3, that you won't see on a dyno, is the off-boost and partial throttle drivability. The MAP based ecu's are so much smoother, makes them much more enjoyable to drive.

Sean
06-29-2011, 07:34 AM
I've got some blitz cams and gears I will be adding on my car. We will see how the 3rd gen electronics work on it and I will dyno.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

smog7
07-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Wow what a difference it makes adjusting that stock gen2 exh cam 6* retarded! I wasn't to happy with the performance the gen3 efi gave me since I switched over but I knew already I was going to loose some power in the upper rpms. I drove it for the first time last night with my cam at -6*. I told my wife ill be back in a few minutes because I wanted to try my car out and I finally returned 1.5 hrs later because it was fun to drive my all-trac again :laugh: it idles a little rough and my boost gauge now reads -16 vac and it idles I bit lower but who give a shit its fun to drive again at 17 psi :) my mods are : st205 ecu,turbo, i/c, k&n cone air filter, exh cam -6* and wonderful 91 octane :) now to find a awd dyno near by to see what I make :)

so all that is needed is a gen 3/st205 ecu, ct20b, and retard the exhaust cam by -6? So this completely gets rid of the afm crap right?

Sang
07-03-2011, 12:38 AM
You also need new injectors, MAT sensor, AIT sensor (if you don't want to do the resistor method), MAP sensor and a 5SFE/gen3 3sgte igniter. Then you need to wire it all in, can do it cheaply by manually moving pins (not as bad if you have a rev2, though I wouldn't recommend it nor do I think it's actually possible to do it on a rev1), or use a jumper harness. You'll also want to use an mr2 ecu since the st205 ecu also looks for a reading from the a2w system.

I would highly recommend at least a bored fuel rail.

Luni
07-06-2011, 05:30 AM
I did a thread on this. I covered everything, but Ill break it down in a nutshell and give you MY input on it since I was one of the first ones to do this conversion (berk beta tested his first harness on me, on my input on where what wires needed to go where, and revised it based on my experience).

Ok, so first off, heres the parts you NEED (Ill put an *optional* next to what you dont NEED but SHOULD get to make it right.

You NEED a Gen3 ECU, MAP Sensor, IAT sensor with pigtail plug for it, MAT sensor with pigtail plug for it, A MAT adapter plate that puts the MAT in the cold start injector location, a plug for the stock cold start injector (I just used 2 washers and a flat nut and a longer bolt than stock and it works good), Gen3 540cc injectors, Gen3 igniter (some 5SFE igniters interchange too, but only certain ones. The details are in my thread also. You need to rewire your harness (which means cutting and resplicing) OR if you have a 91-92 Berk sells a patch harness that makes it plug and play. If youre a rev1 you need to either wire in a rev2 igniter plug, or do what I did and grind the actual igniter plug piece down on the igniter to accept the slightly different shaped rev1 plug.

What you SHOULD have to make this really noticeable is a CT20b or bigger turbo *optional*, ATS bored fuel rail or equivalent (wolfkatz, or just having yours bored is fine too) *optional*, Gen3 cams (technically you only NEED the exhaust cam) or adjustable cam gears (the exhaust cam for a Gen3 is identical to a Gen2 one but its retarded 4.5 degrees which helps the powerband for the conversion so you can just put an adjustable cam gear on the exhaust side to simulate that) *optional*, and you should get your hands on a KO Racing, or EMS Powered intake setup, or make your own 3 inch intake, with nipples for your PCV, IAC, and a hole for the IAT *optional*. And finally, you should ditch your TVIS assembly with a phenolic spacer *optional*

My impressions? The conversion is great, but the powerband isnt right without the Gen3 cams or the adjustable cam gear. You run out of steam around 6k even with a CT20b on there, where with the Gen2 setup it will pull all the way to redline. The exhaust cam retard fixes that, so in my book its absolutely a necessity. Driveability is through the roof. Throttle response is great, turbo spool seems like its up, low/midrange power is better, top end power is about the same, it feels smoother and revs nicer (doesnt rev any higher, just nicer).

Theres quite a bit to this conversion, and to do it right will cost you some dough, but some guys dont want to fork out over 1k for a standalone and then pay someone else to tune it. Some guys want 300-350 whp with OEM turnkey reliability and thats what this swap does for you.