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ericfragola
04-01-2011, 04:41 AM
ok, so by the time im done with my build i will be doing about 450 to the wheel in my st165. my friend brought it to my attention that yeah i may be able to find a clutch thatll handle the power, but is it easy to use? this is my DD/WW (weekend warrior). i want a clutch that will handle 500+whp but that wont be hard to use in say stop and go traffic. i drove my friends integra with a racutch and it was hella stiff. and it released extremely fast and just normally driving it would chirp second and 3rd. and it was really hard to control in stop and go traffic...it was annoying as shit. any reccomendations on a clutch thatll handle the power but i dont have to sacrifice ease of drivability?

Grot
04-01-2011, 05:10 AM
I have a "Stage 2" in my integra, and it is gentiler than the OEM clutch in my F150 (Cable trans)

You get used to whatever you buy.

After a week or so you wont notice any difference. (unless you in heavy stop and go traffic, then you leg gets a little tired)

BonzaiCelica
04-01-2011, 05:51 AM
I used to have a exedy stage 1 clutch on my 94 celica st, it felt firm and was great for daily dirving.

ericfragola
04-01-2011, 06:34 AM
Sweet. There's someone selling an ACT xtreme clutch kit for a 185...just curious if anyone knows how it is for daily driving.

Luni
04-01-2011, 07:46 AM
I used to have that clutch on my MR2. At the time I got it, I thought it was pretty sweet, but in retrospect, I wont ever run one that stiff again.

To be honest, for the level of HP youre making, you pretty much have 2 choices in my book.

1) a plate clutch like an Exedy Hyper Single, an Orc (Ogura), OS Giken.. Something like that. OR, the Clutchmasters Stage 4 ATS racing sells. Id recommend the CM Stg4 over the ACT with extreme pressure plate. That was one stiff mofo. The problem with super stiff clutches is, they tear up throwout bearings. The OEM bearing is the best one you can get (except for all those plate clutches I listed have their own which is designed for it), but it doesnt like a lot of force. The beauty of the ATS CM Stg4 is it actually requires LESS pedal effort than any of the other high po clutches out there in its class, due to a special PP design that generates more clamping force with less pedal effort. And due to the less pedal effort it needs, it is better on the tranny, the crank journal, throwout bearing, etc.

If you really are going to have 450hp in your car, it means you spent some money to get it. Dont cheap out on a clutch. Get the best one you can afford. Id assume given that you WILL have 450hp, you spent some money on it, so you have it to spend on a good clutch.

The short answer is this. The ACT with Xtreme PP WILL hold your power. It will. It may even last 30-50k miles doing it. But its a stiff mofo, and your throwout bearing will likely start chattering, and squealing in stop and go traffic after a while. Mine did. In retrospect I wish Id have bought the CM Stg4.

Im not saying this to pitch ATS, but if you go that route, you GOTTA get it from them, cause that clutch is actually specially made by Clutchmasters for ATS Racing. Theyre the only ones who sell that specific one.

ericfragola
04-01-2011, 07:29 PM
What an awesome answer. No wonder why no ones bought the act clutch off the guy yet. Lol. What kinda price range is the ATS clutch? I'm not looking to go over 600 on a clutch...and well I guess you can say I have money. I'm still a kid, but I'm smart with my money. I happened to strike a good deal with v8killer and got his engine. Forged pistons, new toyota fasteners, arp head studs, acl bearings, 205 top end, 185 block. And I'm still working on getting the fuel mods. But as for now, while the engines out I want to do the clutch. I replaced the one in my 4th gen with the engine in and it was a PITA! So why not get the clutch done while its easily accesible ya know? I just want the car on the roads sooner then later. And all the other mods I can do with the engine in the car. So I'm getting done what needs to be done while its out and easily accesible. :)

Luni
04-01-2011, 07:44 PM
The ATS CM Stg4 will run you 499.

http://www.atsracing.net/Parts.mvc/Details/DT-CM-STG4

ericfragola
04-25-2011, 03:26 AM
ok so ive done some thinking and ive driven some different cars. i drove a honda with a supposed 4 puck clutch. it did not have the pedal stifness i expected, it just engaged really fast. the 3puck i drove was firmer imo. so i didnt mind either clutch. the 3 and 4 puck but i have no idea what stage or brand they were.

im just curious, how is the pedal stifness on the ATS CM stg4? ohh. and im now shooting for 500whp since im going ethanol. also i looked on ATS's website and saw they sell a stage 6
http://www.atsracing.net/Parts.mvc/Details/DT-CM-STG6
but it says its FIRM. i wish i could feel the pedal stifness before i buy.

ChrisD
04-25-2011, 05:15 AM
Clutchmasters generally has a pretty light pedal feel. I've got a stage 3 and it is probably lighter than stock. With that said I've never driven their stage 4. The clutch on my 205 is heavier and harder to drive, although I don't exactly know what it is. I have a sneaking hunch that it is a 3 puck sprung TRD clutch since it was popular in Japan back in the day. But in the end it is still fine and my wife has no issue driving it.

ericfragola
04-25-2011, 05:40 PM
hmmm i see. so clutchmasters clutches run pretty light on pedal stifness? i guess i can give them a call and question them on their stage 6. :) ive never felt a stock alltrac clutch. when i got my engine it came with an exedy clutch. firmer than the stock in my 4th gen celica but still very easy to drive. i really liked it. nothing too fancy about it. what about engagement speed? i guess these questions arepretty useless if no one has experienced the cm stg6. one thing i liked though was that they said several mr2 owners have switched from their twin disc setup to go with the stg6 that they offer.good selling point right there.

Funkycheeze
04-26-2011, 04:59 PM
I run a very stiff PP (RPS max) in the Supra, with an organic style friction disc. Heavy pedal, but stock-like engagement. I tend to avoid multi-puck clutches, especialy ones with unsprung discs.

ericfragola
04-26-2011, 09:43 PM
well i want it a little faster than stock engagement since i will be taking it to the track and accelerating onto the freeway at a fun speed ;) but i dont want to walk around with a buff left leg lol

Siyx
04-26-2011, 10:12 PM
I have a ceramic stage 3 in the Supra (good for over 700+ hp if I remember correctly), it wasn't so bad in stop n go (but that was after a few weeks of hard dropping) It has about 5% give but you can ride it hard without worrying about burning it. Don't remember the make, it was put in about 3 years ago and its still as strong as it was back then. It will grip when you dump and slip when you don't. Fairly easy to do a hill stall and ride the clutch without breaking your leg.

ericfragola
04-27-2011, 12:49 AM
hmm interesting. wait, so itll slip if i baby it when im daily driving?

Siyx
04-27-2011, 03:16 PM
What i was getting at is that i "softened it up" after a few good high rev, drop clutch n' go's. When the clutch was put in it was almost a whole new driving experience. I would stall the car because the clutch had no give (about 5%) so I had to change my driving style. It does not slip to this day, but i do know the exact pedal point at which it connects to the plate, therefore i can "slip" or should i say ride? the clutch. When I bought the clutch I was told that it would never slip and I guess the guy was right. My Supra is a little worse for wear and I drive it like it looks, hard and dirty.
So driving it like I do I can sit on a hill and not use the brake or handbrake to stay stationary. Did I clear things up?

ericfragola
04-28-2011, 05:46 PM
yes, i see what youre saying now. i just wish you knew which brand it was D:

Siyx
04-28-2011, 08:16 PM
Sorry, it was installed ages ago and I didn't keep any boxes or paperwork from the install. The main thing was that it was a stage 3 ceramic clutch. Hope that helps.
A lot of the clutches out there at the time were Kevlar, this one was ceramic and about 3yrs old, maybe a google search could clear things up?

ericfragola
04-29-2011, 02:38 AM
ill definately look. a stage 3 ceramic sounds like a good phrase to look up. ill post what i find out. thanks alot siyx!

ericfragola
04-29-2011, 03:00 AM
http://www.axidworks.com/Celica%20All%20Trac%20GT4%203S%20GTE%2088%2093%20S tage%203%20Ceramic%20Sprung
F1 Racing

http://www.sparktecmotorsports.com/16061-1420-3.html
Competition clutch

so far these are what ive found with a little bit of searching...can someone please just clarify pucks on a clutch to me? ive been told the more pucks the more agressive the clutch is and the harder it is to drive. my friends prelude has a 3puck and i like driving it. and his friends accord has a supposed 4 puck and is a little annoying to drive. not something id want for a daily. but then again the cars been passed through 4people in the past month so it may or may not be a 4puck. but whatever it is i dont care for it. so with his being said, im assuming a 6puck isnt reccomended for the street? correct me if im wrong please.

ericfragola
04-29-2011, 07:06 AM
I believe I know what I'm going with. Garage CRW can get me a spec stage 3 plus for $409.95. Its rated for 490ft lbs. And comes in either 6 puck or 4. Idbe getting the 6puck and its sprung. But it also says that its available the I-pad disc whichis rated for 600+ft lbs. Anyone know what the I-pad disc is? 490ft lbs will do what want but I would like a buffer zone so I'm not constantly pushing. Clutch to its limit so it'll last.

Luni
04-29-2011, 08:11 AM
Its actually the opposite. The less pucks, the more aggressive it is and harder to drive. A 6 puck will be more streetable than a 4 puck which will be more streetable than a 3 puck.

Think about it like this. If you apply 50 lbs of force to a cup against a piece of sheetrock it will generally hold it. If you do the same force through a screwdriver, its likely to go through.

Full face clutches are softer feeling and more slippy because the same amount of force is distributed evenly across the entire face. When you drop to a puck, you have the same amount of force distributed across the number of pucks. Thats why a 3 puck will grab harder than a 6 puck, because ALL the force is distributed over 3 pucks instead of more evenly across 6.

Get what Im sayin?

And I want to go on record and say after seeing sprung clutch failures on 3SGTEs, it doesnt matter what clutch Im running unless its OEM or an OE replacement Exedy, I wont run a sprung clutch.

Ive ran Spec, Ive ran ACT, etc. And after doing the research, Im telling you, that CM Stage4 ATS sells is the way to go. It has a better PP design which makes it more streetable, less fatiguing on your foot, and less stress on the bearings on the engine (stiff clutches put wear on the crank journals at startup and CAN cause crankwalk).

I just really like the CM Stg4. I know youre going to go with what youre going to go with, but my opinion is based on quite a bit of experience of owning a 3S for over 10 years and reading about all the failures.

Hope this helps

ericfragola
04-29-2011, 05:34 PM
its funny, i actually have an exedy OE replacement hardly used sitting in my garage. it came with my first motor i got and was installed when they raced it and they only raced it twice and i put maybe 500miles on it IF that before pulling my motor out.

i DO like the cm stg4 and the way you talk about it...and i appreciate the positive feedback.

one more thing, im curious to know more about the ats cm stg6. because like you said, a 4puck is more agressive than a 6puck. im not sure how many pucks the stg6 has because the website doesnt say much about it except that its good for 500+ and the perdal is FIRM.


gahhh too many options :/

ericfragola
04-29-2011, 05:53 PM
ok, after doing some research on clutchmasters website, the stage four is available in a ceramic 4 or 6puck for the same price. which im assuming i can get the same exact option from ATS. if so, i will gladly go with the ATS cm stg4 SIX puck. remember, this is my DD. i cant go driving to foodmaxx with a crazy agressive clutch lol!

luni- if there was an advice rating right under the feedback score id give you 100%!

Luni
05-01-2011, 09:42 AM
The ATS CM Stg4 is made specifically for them by clutchmasters. They're the only vendors for it. It's a six puck unsprung and everyone who's reviewed it says it's a great clutch under ~450-500 hp. Driveability is great. Pedal feel is lighter than stock. It's easy to slip and don't engage heavy. It's just a great clutch.

ericfragola
05-02-2011, 02:41 AM
I like the "its just a great clutch" you added in. Lol. I was just thrown off by the pic they posted on their site. Because it shows a 4puck. But I will hopefully be ordering it this week. As long as the funds are available. Thanks everyone for the great input.

Luni
05-02-2011, 02:47 AM
On their site, it says The best clutch for available for 350whp-500whp. This clutch is built by Clutchmaster's exclusively for ATS Racing. Picture shows incorrect disk.

KoreanJoey
05-02-2011, 05:49 AM
Get a button for your clutch switch so you're not dry starting and tearing up the thrust bearings.

KoreanJoey
05-02-2011, 05:53 AM
PS: had great luck with my Competition 6 puck unsprung. Complete with many, many drag launches and hard shifts on 255 wide hoosiers. The chassis of the car suffered worse than the clutch.

Luni
05-02-2011, 06:27 PM
Joey, the clutch hes going for has lighter pedal than stock. He wont put any more wear on his thrust bearings than a stock clutch would.

KoreanJoey
05-02-2011, 09:45 PM
Ah, wasn't really paying attention.

ericfragola
05-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Get a button for your clutch switch so you're not dry starting and tearing up the thrust bearings.

what exactly do you mean by a button?

MrWOT
05-03-2011, 05:53 PM
Unplug the pedal switch and run the plug to a button under the dash, like you'd install for an alarm bypass.

Having a heavy pressure plate plays hell on the thrust bearings if you engage the clutch on startup.

KoreanJoey
05-04-2011, 12:08 AM
Unplug the pedal switch and run the plug to a button under the dash, like you'd install for an alarm bypass.

Having a heavy pressure plate plays hell on the thrust bearings if you engage the clutch on startup.

To be honest it's not a bad thing to do regardless. Dry starts are the hardest moments on a motor. Anything you can do to make it a little easier on it, will probably go a long way.

ericfragola
05-04-2011, 08:44 AM
oh, i see what youre saying. theres a button that is pushed when your clutch pedals in, allowing the car to startup. a safety feature so that you dont accidentally try starting it while its in gear. so youre saying unplug that and run it to a button somewhere else? good idea!

C-dubb
05-08-2011, 10:04 PM
I have an ACT 6 puck (unsprung) clutch in my st185 It's pretty drivable, I don't notice a huge difference between it and the stock clutch. It's rated at 499lb/ft torque.

ericfragola
05-11-2011, 04:09 AM
hmm. doyou have a part number?

Luni
05-11-2011, 08:29 AM
Jesus you still havent bought your clutch yet?

Its going to be the exact same clutch I currently have in my MR2. And its gonna be roughly the same price as the CM one, and the CM one is a better clutch for sure.

ericfragola
05-12-2011, 05:50 PM
its not that i dont know which one to get (because i do know, im going with the cm stg4 from ats) its just that i hardly make any money. im only 18 and push carts and go to school...saving up 500bucks is kinda hard since i have other things to pay for :/ i have another 100bucks to get and then ill be ordering my clutch.