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View Full Version : All Trac JDM swap and sell legal issues.



90ToyAllTrac
03-13-2011, 10:10 PM
The whats it worth thread made me think of this. Since the JDM has no smog control on it. Anyone ever have a problem selling one and getting in trouble when the person you sold it too gets in trouble and tries to pin it on you? I know probably almost never happens. Just a hypothetical. I would think thered be a statute of limitation on it just like anything else. Ever since I did the swap Ive been of the mind that I should just never sell the car. Not that I want too. But it would have to be the right buyer, a real tuner.

Lonestag
03-13-2011, 10:17 PM
I think in this situation the violation is to drive a car in that condition, not to own or even sell one. I'm pretty sure it's the owner's responsibility to know the mechancial condition of the car. I'm not sure a buyer couldn't sue a seller if the condition of the EGR system wasn't disclosed to them at the time of sale, but it would be a lawsuit disputing the value of the car. I don't think you could sue to have a fine paid.

That is an opinion, not at all an informed one, just sounds right.

Galcobar
03-13-2011, 10:38 PM
Japan has emission controls, perhaps even stricter in terms of what actually comes out the tailpipe than the U.S.

They just don't specify the equipment which the manufacturers have to use, at least not to the same extent. A properly maintained JDM import will be as clean as one from the North American market; the difference is that some jurisdictions demand not just results but the process meet their requirements. If you are selling it in an area where the test is on the tailpipe (and the catalytic converter, which is pretty much a universally required item) the new owner should have no issue.

If you're not, as long as you disclose what you're selling you are covered. Telling people it's a Japanese engine is required disclosure. Advising them on compliance with the law is not unless you get one hell of a biased judge/jury.

joe's gt
03-14-2011, 02:34 AM
I was the one who posted the thread. I would advise them that it was JDM and I would also advise them that it has been BAR approved (have the paperwork to prove it). But yeah, if I were a buyer looking at a car, I would find out before I paid the money and I hope the seller would have the decency and honesty to tell me. Simple fact is tho, most wouldn't because moral integrity is utterly non-existent in today's society.

Galcobar is correct also. My car runs cleaner than most celica's out there without egr if that tells you anything.

alltracman78
03-15-2011, 05:58 PM
Technically even if there's no tailpipe check it's still illegal.
By law you can't remove or modify any emissions equipment on a vehicle, even in a state with no inspection [like TN].
There probably are some exceptions for specially titled vehicles, like kit cars, or something that's legally imported.
Same goes for lights, technically the clear corners are illegal because they're not DOT approved.

Doesn't mean you're not going to pass an inspection, or have problems.
The only problem I've ever had is with my newest Alltrac, and that was only because the exhaust was too loud.

sammyw
03-17-2011, 02:51 AM
My family owns a stock JDM imported all trac, that is registered in the states, we have taken it through emissions in WA State a few times and always passed no problem, always with emissions less then 10% of the max. A bit off topic but we also took our '83 supra through emissions, the last time it had to that is, without the catalytic converter and still passed. I think people should always be upfront about the car that your selling, karma you know.

T-spoon
03-17-2011, 03:19 AM
My family owns a stock JDM imported all trac, that is registered in the states, we have taken it through emissions in WA State a few times and always passed no problem, always with emissions less then 10% of the max. A bit off topic but we also took our '83 supra through emissions, the last time it had to that is, without the catalytic converter and still passed. I think people should always be upfront about the car that your selling, karma you know.

Honestly for all they blabber about being Green and progressive, Washington state emissions are a joke, they don't look at anything, just the pipe sniffer, and don't even have rollers for the AWD cars. Houston is more strict by far. Enforcement is so random and inconsistent, state to state.

sammyw
03-17-2011, 03:32 AM
Honestly for all they blabber about being Green and progressive, Washington state emissions are a joke, they don't look at anything, just the pipe sniffer, and don't even have rollers for the AWD cars. Houston is more strict by far. Enforcement is so random and inconsistent, state to state.

I agree, it varies county to county too, in Whatcom County where I go to school they are very proud of how green they are but don't do emissions testing on there cars here.

ChrisD
03-17-2011, 03:09 PM
I was always under the impression that used vehicles sold privately are sold "as-is", and it is the buyers responsibility to ensure it is up to standard. If they choose to have it mechanically inspected, these things would be found. If they chose not to, then that and any number of other issues would be their problem to resolve.

Of course doing the "right thing" would be to disclose as much as you can before they buy. (which would be the thing to do)

Galcobar
03-17-2011, 10:24 PM
The question is one of representation -- or deception. If you sell the car explicitly as-is, you are representing to the buyers that you make no guarantees as to whether or not it's working. However, if you sell the car as "my daily driver" then you're representing to them that it is able to be registered and legally driven.

Simply telling the buyers that it is a Japanese car is sufficient to satisfy your duty not to deceive the buyer. If the buyer is ignorant of what that means, it's not your fault as any reasonable person (this is the usual legal test) would want to know what it means to use a Japanese car in a U.S. jurisdiction. The basis of any complaint was that you knew or should have known a Japanese car was not legal to operate on local roads (if that's actually the law in your area), and that you should have informed the buyer. Your defence is that the buyer was informed it was a Japanese car, and therefore they should have known its legal status.