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View Full Version : Found an engine... a few concerns.



FluffyNutts
01-11-2011, 10:06 PM
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2856/celicat94971.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2126/celicat94972.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5369/celicat94973.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4772/celicat94974.jpg

I asked them to send me a picture of the st185 they had and I recieved this... I first thought it was a st205 so I called thinking maybe they gave me the wrong pictures. I was told that this is a st185 that said 94-97 in error. I asked right away ST185 have air to air intercoolers. He said it was converted he thinks. I hung up and then I though to myself didnt the RC have A2C intercoolers? And he said he knew it was an st185 because the side of the timing cover says c7. I noticed also it looks to have a EGR system which I know they didnt use in Japan, only the UK and America used them I believe. My questions are is this a 90-93 ST185 and is that an EGR system I see? Thank you so much.

Grot
01-11-2011, 10:26 PM
Looks to be an RC intercooler cover.

Thats all the help i can be sorry

FluffyNutts
01-11-2011, 10:51 PM
Looks to be an RC intercooler cover.

Thats all the help i can be sorry

I love you.. you always post in my post with helpful information, thank you. Thats one mystery solved.

4thgenceli
01-11-2011, 10:55 PM
The 205 never came in a USDM market or anywhere that required the EGR valve. If in fact that is an EGR that you see then it is going to be the 185 RC edition. Of course I have no clue where/what the EGR looks like as I have never dealt with one on a 3sgte :P

Grot
01-11-2011, 11:03 PM
If that is in your budget, has a complete wiring harness AND ECU i would pick it up. RC are a good find, but you would get the dditional ponies without the ECU

FluffyNutts
01-11-2011, 11:50 PM
It includes the ECU and Harness GROT, they want 1100 for it. I was just curious. So the RC edition will bolt right into my 93 Celica right with the same 5sfe tranny? I had a regular st185 that was in it. And since it has a EGR we will say, It means it not using a ceramic turbo, does this mean I can rebuild my ceramic one and put it on there?

Grot
01-11-2011, 11:50 PM
Yes to all the above

Grot
01-11-2011, 11:51 PM
There might be a couple different/extra things like the water pump for the intercooler, but should be largely the same

Hookecho
01-12-2011, 12:32 AM
That is the egr you see in the pictures so that is a usdm st185.

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 12:46 AM
That is the egr you see in the pictures so that is a usdm st185.

While doing research the WTA intercool in that style I guess never made it to the states. It was on the Japan, europe and australian versions. Either way, I need to buy this ASAP.

Luni
01-12-2011, 12:51 AM
Thats definately a 185 RC intercooler. If it was a 205 intercooler, there would be a BOV.

However, that engine DOES have an EGR bell on it. So it either has a USDM intake manifold and an EGR mocked up to it to "fake" emissions (like my engine does), OR its just a USDM engine with a 185RC W2A IC on it.

Theres no way to tell whether its a 90/91 or a 92/93 3S. (AKA Rev1 or Rev2 gen2)

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 01:00 AM
Thats definately a 185 RC intercooler. If it was a 205 intercooler, there would be a BOV.

However, that engine DOES have an EGR bell on it. So it either has a USDM intake manifold and an EGR mocked up to it to "fake" emissions (like my engine does), OR its just a USDM engine with a 185RC W2A IC on it.

Theres no way to tell whether its a 90/91 or a 92/93 3S. (AKA Rev1 or Rev2 gen2)

Would the serial on the ecu let me know which it is?

Luni
01-12-2011, 01:06 AM
The model number on the ECU would tell us what year the ECU is.

Hookecho
01-12-2011, 01:26 AM
Maybe it has a ct20b.

Luni
01-12-2011, 02:00 AM
It doesnt. 20bs only say Toyota. This one says Toyota CT26

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 02:26 AM
I stumbled across this...

http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3sgte%20table.htm

I think that is telling me that the WTA intercooler didnt come on a USDM version. Now the EGR, it says japan didnt have em but the Australian one did.

Luni
01-12-2011, 02:58 AM
And it might have. I didnt think about an Aussie ST185RC.

The way to tell is the engine will have a VIN plate on it if its a USDM car. That VIN will match a car in carfax. Get the engine seller to give you the VIN off the engine and carfax it. No data on it? Its foreign.

Terracar
01-12-2011, 03:00 AM
I am not sure on Oz came with an EGR, but if that is an RC engine and you get the ECU with it (and it is an actual RC ECU) you will also need the RC AFM as it is larger than the standard 3sgte AFM.

-Terracar

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 03:06 AM
I am not sure on Oz came with an EGR, but if that is an RC engine and you get the ECU with it (and it is an actual RC ECU) you will also need the RC AFM as it is larger than the standard 3sgte AFM.

-Terracar

What would happen if they didnt have the AFM? Would I just use the ECU I have now and use the standard AFM?

Grot
01-12-2011, 03:11 AM
i dont think anything major will happen, but im not an authority on the 3sgte by any means

Hookecho
01-12-2011, 04:36 AM
Rev 1 st185 had 8mm plug wires and rev2 had 5mm.

v8killer
01-12-2011, 06:15 AM
its a rc and its for a good price the ct20b doesnt exist its a ct26c2 and only on the gen3 engines. it has 7 bolts on the dp and some twin entry ct26's only say toyota. the best thing about this engine is the WTA core and the transmission. BUY IT NOW orrrrrr i kill u.

Hookecho
01-12-2011, 06:51 AM
I think it's a USDM because of the wire harness. The boot and ecu plugs are on the left side of the motor and travels through the left side of the intake manifold. It doesn't look to be a lengthened harness and even if it was the loom on the JDM would still exit the right side of the intake.

Luni
01-12-2011, 02:40 PM
its a rc and its for a good price the ct20b doesnt exist its a ct26c2 and only on the gen3 engines. it has 7 bolts on the dp and some twin entry ct26's only say toyota. the best thing about this engine is the WTA core and the transmission. BUY IT NOW orrrrrr i kill u.

yeah, we know its not really called a 20b, but its a Toyotaism that is accepted in the communities.

Its more confusing for you to call it a "ct26c2 blah blah blah" than it is to just call it a 20b. We all know what a CT20b is, we know where they come from, its just easier this way.

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 04:55 PM
I for sent a few more pictures. He said he would call me back about the MAF if they have it or not. If it dont, Can you find RC MAF easily?

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9214/10037641000x750.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4716/10037651000x750.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9756/10037661000x750.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5532/10037681000x750.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8691/10037691000x750.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3258/10037701000x750.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5073/10037711000x750.jpg

Luni
01-12-2011, 05:01 PM
The ECU determines what AFM you need.

So get them to send you the number on the ECU, or take a direct picture of the face of the ECU so we can see it.

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 05:32 PM
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2677/10037721000x750.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2043/10037731000x750.jpg

Here is the pictures of the ECU.. He said they were a little scratched. For some reason that don't even look like a 3sgte computer.

sloceli
01-12-2011, 05:53 PM
I would stay away from that engine if I were you. It looks like it's been road hard and put away wet a few too many times. The exhaust side of the turbo should look rusted but it shouldn't be that corroded with chunks missing. The TVSV line is plugged which means there was a boost controller on there who knows how much boost was ran through it, I'm willing to bet that turbo is crap. It just looks abused. I would take it for the engine it's self, harness and whatever else you can save but plan on getting a new turbo.

The ECU doesn't look right at all. The other pictures show the 3rd ecu plug disconnected which it should be because it comes from the interior harness the pictures above show all three plugs. It could be a honda ecu as they have the same plugs as we do.

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 05:59 PM
I would stay away from that engine if I were you. It looks like it's been road hard and put away wet a few too many times. The exhaust side of the turbo should look rusted but it shouldn't be that corroded with chunks missing. The TVSV line is plugged which means there was a boost controller on there who knows how much boost was ran through it, I'm willing to bet that turbo is crap. It just looks abused. I would take it for the engine it's self, harness and whatever else you can save but plan on getting a new turbo.

The ECU doesn't look right at all. The other pictures show the 3rd ecu plug disconnected which it should be because it comes from the interior harness the pictures above show all three plugs. It could be a honda ecu as they have the same plugs as we do.

I am glad you said something... Well I planned on rebuilding my ceramic turbo and putting it on. So ECUs are not the same, its what I figured. So how does this sound. put a rebuilt turbo on there, use the 3sgte ecu I have now which would mean I could use the MAF I have now. Which picture did you see the TVSV plugged? Whats it look like so I can see it? They said they would compression test it in front of me. Once I go look at it in person before I buy it, what things do I look for?

Oh, I did some research on that ECU. It came from a Honda Prelude. I guess this is a good engine find... I don't know wether to give up on it, and pay 1500 shipped from a place in canada where they are far away or just get this one which is only 1 hour from me.

sloceli
01-12-2011, 06:15 PM
The honda ECU's use the same plugs as we do but they are not compatible. The 90/91 and 92/93 ecu's are different, you can use either but 12 or so wires have to be moved around and 1 or 2 have to be cut and soldered. It's nothing to worry about all that's needed is a jewelers screwdriver to lift the tab in the plug and pull the wire out and switch it with the new one. As far as telling what year look at the distro cap if the plug wires are push on it's a 90/91 if they have a little retainer tab it’s a 92/93 unless the wrong one was put on. There are no direct pictures of where the VIN plate should be to tell if it's USDM that would help you figure out what year. Your rebuilt turbo, ECU and AFM will work just fine. The TVSV is in the 2nd new pic to the left of the starter and in the last picture on the right under the intake pipe.

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 06:27 PM
The honda ECU's use the same plugs as we do but they are not compatible. The 90/91 and 92/93 ecu's are different, you can use either but 12 or so wires have to be moved around and 1 or 2 have to be cut and soldered. It's nothing to worry about all that's needed is a jewelers screwdriver to lift the tab in the plug and pull the wire out and switch it with the new one. As far as telling what year look at the distro cap if the plug wires are push on it's a 90/91 if they have a little retainer tab it’s a 92/93 unless the wrong one was put on. There are no direct pictures of where the VIN plate should be to tell if it's USDM that would help you figure out what year. Your rebuilt turbo, ECU and AFM will work just fine. The TVSV is in the 2nd new pic to the left of the starter and in the last picture on the right under the intake pipe.

Ah Okay, I see the pic now. I found another place for 1100 fore a JDM egine. if it were you and you planned on putting a engine in and you came across these two, would go for the one thats pure JDM without WTA or would you check out the one with WTA and check its condition? One more question, sorry. Is that WTA intercooler a bolt right up, or will I have to tap into lines etc...

sloceli
01-12-2011, 06:51 PM
It's all good. If I were you and you have a turbo that you can rebuild then I would go for the USDM with the WTA in a heartbeat. The wiring will be much easier with the USDM engine. The WTA will need a pump, lines, heat exchanger and a reservoir, it's it's own cooling system. If you don't want to go that route the crappy ATA can be had for cheap or you could just go FMIC. The only other thing is the JDM ECU's have 25 more horse power. If the rest of the usdm engine checks out that would probably be your best bet. Forewarning be prepared to get pissed of snapping bolts trying to remove that turbo.

FluffyNutts
01-12-2011, 06:58 PM
I think I made my mind up then. Due to unknown conditions on that engine, I will go with JDM engine, fresh turbo, FMIC and send my harness to Dr. Tweak. Thanks for everyones input, it is MUCH appreciated.

sloceli
01-12-2011, 07:02 PM
Good luck and keep us updated.

stealthy91GTS
01-19-2011, 07:37 PM
im lookin to swap a 3sgte into my 5th gen GTS and i was wondering where the best place to find one is. Debating whether to look for a wrecked all-trac or Mr2 on craigs/ebay OR should i just try and get the full clip from some JDM website

Grot
01-19-2011, 07:59 PM
Almost no one has Full clips anymore. you will have better luck finding a wrecked trac or deuce.

stealthy91GTS
01-19-2011, 08:12 PM
do they really bolt right up to my stock tranny

Grot
01-19-2011, 08:17 PM
yes, but as stated you will have to rewire the whole harness

stealthy91GTS
01-19-2011, 08:24 PM
yeah im sooo looking forward to that, this is probaly a dumb question but would there be any difference between an engine out of an all trac versus an mr2

Grot
01-19-2011, 08:28 PM
Not really.

ChrisD
01-19-2011, 08:53 PM
There are a few differences. If you have a choice, go with the Celica platform. Off the top of my head, alternator mounted in a different spot, harness completely different (much more of a PITA to wire if it is an MR2...but I've done it before so it's not impossible or anything), intake piping different, intercooler and piping different, MR2 has a BOV stock, transmission obviously, coolant neck on the head is different...other stuff too.

I'd go with a JDM as opposed to a north american engine, due to typical mileage and such.

I know there is still stock of JDM engines at some local places...although they have been selling them at some serious clearance prices lately. Like $500 complete.

Luni
01-20-2011, 02:07 AM
You could always make him start it...

Ive seen 3SGTEs converted to run on a Honda ECU.

v8killer
01-28-2011, 11:07 PM
yeah the "poor man's ems" lol

i still think WTA is the way to go. yeah its more "complex" but the cooling is there from idle till u turn off the car, also has better response for the most part assuming you know how to properly set it up.

sodap0p
01-29-2011, 04:32 PM
I know there is still stock of JDM engines at some local places...although they have been selling them at some serious clearance prices lately. Like $500 complete.

Chris, I need help finding a good 3rd gen bro

klapa
02-14-2011, 01:12 AM
So - what happened?

stealthy91GTS
03-02-2011, 10:12 PM
is that cut? and even still where exactly is this place thats selling them for $500.

Car_Barn_Bandit
03-02-2011, 10:18 PM
is that cut? and even still where exactly is this place thats selling them for $500.

Invoke the inner jew in you and ask around at different places. With the economy, there are likely plenty of places to get a good deal.