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View Full Version : The Correct Way To Utilize Negative Camber



2_Liter_Turbo
12-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Yup, another great MotoIQ article about correctly setting up your suspension. This time, it is an in-depth look at correctly utilizing negative camber for those of us who like to drive our cars hard!

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1781/the-ultimate-guide-to-suspension-and-handling-part-five-adding-negative-camber.aspx

I only post these because I find them interesting and informative btw.

donteatbugs
12-02-2010, 09:01 PM
i set my camber as negative as it will go and then set my toe to 0* in the front. it seems to work well

KoreanJoey
12-03-2010, 05:43 AM
Well realistically on a McStrut suspension one of the biggest advantages is reducing suspension travel (as much as it sucks) because it just doesn't gain enough camber under roll/compression. One thing they don't really make note of is caster, another thing that isn't adjustable from the factory on our cars. I believe that Noltec made a camber/caster plate for the ST18X but I don't know if they're still available.

Funkycheeze
12-03-2010, 06:29 PM
You can get some caster adjustment by moving the top of the strut forwards/back and thereby changing the kingpin angle. Gotta watch out for the mechanical trail in this case though - self steering effects are bad news.

Overall, a very good set of articles, and not discussing caster is ok - it is kind of beyond the scope of the articles, and not easily adjustable on most cars without other effects.

KoreanJoey
12-04-2010, 06:38 AM
Caster does help a lot with McStrut cars. Porsche and BMW have both proven that. But yes, steering can become an issue and toe settings become more important for sure.

Funkycheeze
12-04-2010, 05:31 PM
I'm running stock caster, and usually recommend that people do the same. Much better results can be had from limiting body roll and adding more static camber. At least on the MA67 platform.

KoreanJoey
12-05-2010, 12:48 AM
Yeah, RWD is definitely less picky about front camber. But FWD cars it's a battle to try to find how much camber you can run while still having enough contact patch to put the power down. Hence, I like the idea of adjusting the caster but I don't know if you can really get enough with even the caster plates. I'd love to get 7-8* of caster and run under 2* of neg camber.

Doesn't the MA67 run a double wishbone front suspension?

2_Liter_Turbo
12-05-2010, 01:46 AM
I have adjustable caster on my 240sx, and I run 7 degrees in the front with 1 or 1.5 degrees of negative camber (don't remember, lol). Seems to work well for me. I run 1.5 to 2 degrees of negative camber in the rear with just a little toe in for road racing and toe out for drifting (no toe for drag racing). My celica is all stock, so no modified alignment there, lol. Soon though!

karl
12-08-2010, 06:51 PM
this might be a douchey thing to post, but why do all these internet articles that proclaim the right way to do things never show the right way to do things?

there was nothing regarding actually FINDING the proper camber settings. not only did the author not talk about how proper camber settings are arrived at, but the words "tire pyrometer" don't seem to be mentioned anywhere in the article. he never talked at all about using a pyrometer to measure temperatures across the contact patch to determine whether the camber settings (as well we tire pressures) were proper or not. he just pasted a table with some guess numbers.

he never mentioned how to balance camber and caster (or even the effect that caster has on negative camber) or how to analyze camber curves based on SAI on strut suspension, nor did he mention the importance of proper tire pressures and how changing tire pressure can change the idea camber settings. IMO, the article is seriously lacking. it has pretty pictures, but no real knowledgabilities beyond the average internet bench racer article. that would be perfectly fine if it weren't part of a series called "the ultimate guide to suspension and handling." i'm sorry, but there's nothing "ultimate" about that article.

stick to books like tune to win by smith and competition car suspension by staniforth if you actually want to learn the intricacies of how suspension works and how to tune it.

KoreanJoey
12-10-2010, 05:48 AM
Valid points. Basically the entire thing just points that the majority of the "in" crowd of car enthusiasts are morons.


But that's common knowledge.

Funkycheeze
12-13-2010, 08:46 PM
MA67 is mcpherson strut front and semi trailing arm rear. Geometry is decent, but it can get out of whack in a hurry, so you need to lower with caution, keeping the geometry in check (especially rear camber, you need to mod the subframe to make it adjustable) and try to keep things stiff.

karl
12-17-2010, 04:26 AM
yeah, mac struts are pretty much a compromise no matter what you do. gotta keep the roll stiff to keep the camber curves from going gay, but if you do it with spring rates, the car sucks over bumps and if you do it with roll bars you unload the inside drive wheel on corner exit.

semi-active suspension is where it's at.

Car_Barn_Bandit
12-17-2010, 04:37 AM
Valid points. Basically the entire thing just points that the majority of the "in" crowd of car enthusiasts are morons.


But that's common knowledge.

This is why I got to events and talk to those who actually race and have experience. Nothing beats physically looking at a setup and hearing advice.

smog7
12-22-2010, 03:33 AM
my suspension tuning bible:

http://www.modified.com/editors/technobabble/0401_sccp_5_things_about_handling_techno_babble/index.html

KoreanJoey
12-23-2010, 01:03 AM
Um... no.

Funkycheeze
01-06-2011, 07:46 PM
Being RWD with a shitload of power, I can just use a big bar on the front, AKA the 'solid axle conversion kit'

The rear, well, its good in the curves, and bad in the straight (big camber change on bump)

KoreanJoey
01-09-2011, 09:20 AM
Bar doesn't improve the camber curves any... if anything you'll just lift the inside front tire (which is fine, and looks pretty awesome) and need more front camber/caster.

For example
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs084.ash2/37543_1488767789843_1553405115_1231042_6119248_n.j pg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2620924382_497c76e2d0.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2620096321_0cf13bd28e.jpg