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View Full Version : Who makes rod bearings for the 5sfe?



KooK
10-15-2010, 11:05 PM
I changed my oil for the first time and I'm getting some bottom end noise, I'm guessing the previous owners must have used a thick oil weight to hide that fact. Anyway, the only bearings I have ever used for anything and everything has been ACL and come to find out, they don't make a bearing for this engine. Wondering what everybody else here using for bottom end bearings.

Thanks.

DudeMan
10-15-2010, 11:17 PM
Toyota!

They use a number system so its really simple to order, just plastigage to make sure the clearance is correct.

If you look in the BGB you'll see what I mean about the numbers.

I avoid local dealerships and order from a dealer in WA that sells online, www.1sttoyotaparts.com.

Kinda surprising ACL doesn't make bearings for the 5S, I'm pretty sure they make them for the 3S..

KooK
10-16-2010, 12:52 AM
Ohhhhh, Honda does the same thing, I was wondering if Toyota did something similar. Yeah I was a little surprised I didn't find ACL bearings for the thing. What's 'the BGB?'

http://www.aclperformance.com.au/us/ToyotaEngineIndexus.htm

KooK
10-16-2010, 12:58 AM
Also, what's the impression on reusing the rod bolts on these cars? Are they strong? Are they prone to stretching? I'm mostly one of those guys where everything has a place and everything gets put back in its place; which is why I ask because I'm not a huge fan of putting new bolts in the rotating assembly unless I need to.

DudeMan
10-16-2010, 01:23 AM
Big Green Book or the Factory Service Manual, its on the site under 'BGB Online' or something. I just downloaded it, put it on a disc and had a local printer put it on paper.

I know your not supposed to reuse the head bolts or the flywheel bolts but I never heard anything about having to replace the rod bolts. You can buy ARP rod bolts but I don't think its necessary unless your doing a high HP build.

Just put my shortblock together the other day and reused them..

KooK
10-16-2010, 01:38 AM
Ho-ly SHIT THIS SITE IS F'ING AMAZING!

Is there any way I can just download everything at once?

DudeMan
10-16-2010, 01:46 AM
If you look around a bit you might be able to find it, I can't remember exactly where I downloaded my pdf. file, might of been at alltrac.net.

I only have the All Trac/GT Four manual downloaded. There's a separate one for the fifth generation Celica which would be more useful to you.

Now that I think about it, I could really use the general fifth gen manual as a pdf. file. Maybe make another topic requesting a download? I'm sure there's members on here that know have it or know where it can be downloaded from.

klapa
10-16-2010, 01:54 AM
"Is there any way I can just download everything at once?"

I don't think so - but you can download each section if you want to.

You can also download useful stuff from Toyota DIY.

Yet I just print the stuff from the BGB here as I need it and am slowly building up my paper manuals.

Don't worry - this place - and the BGB - aren't going to go away.

KooK
10-17-2010, 11:26 PM
I have the oil pan off and now I can't figure out how they marked these rods or what the markings even mean. I can't find it in BGB either, could somebody point me in the right direction here?

Edit: http://bgbonline.celicatech.com/93tech/22L_4_CY.PDF

Starting on the bottom of page 53, however the big end and small end of the rod both have numbers on them...

klapa
10-17-2010, 11:36 PM
I don't know but in my experience with American V-8 cars the main journals are marked by the factory - but not the rods.

It is up to the mechanic to mark the rods when disassembling the engine.

Also don't forget to mark not only the position but also the front-to-back orientation. I always was also careful to use the rod bolts in exactly the places they came out of.

KooK
10-18-2010, 12:51 AM
I've rebuilt my fair share of Honda engines in the past so this isn't really new to me. I'm not a huge fan of the way Toyota did this seeing as it looks like they probably marked the rods from the inside, can somebody confirm this?

KoreanJoey
10-18-2010, 03:08 AM
I don't believe the rods are marked at all... You can just scribe them as you go.

DudeMan
10-18-2010, 03:19 AM
The numbers are on the old bearings and the bearing caps, not the rods.

KoreanJoey
10-18-2010, 03:28 AM
Honestly, as long as the caps remain with the rods I don't believe it makes a difference.

temperacerguy
10-18-2010, 03:51 AM
Each rod is marked on the big end. The crank is marked as well. subtract the crank from the rod, and it will give you the bearing number you need.

KooK
10-18-2010, 04:10 AM
I don't believe the rods are marked at all... You can just scribe them as you go.


Each rod is marked on the big end. The crank is marked as well. subtract the crank from the rod, and it will give you the bearing number you need.


The numbers are on the old bearings and the bearing caps, not the rods.


Holy effing conflicting information. Lets sort this one out, who here has rebuilt a 5sfe with OEM Toyota bearings? Either way, I took the bearings out and there's no stamping that makes any real sense on the bearing or inside the cap. However on the outside of the cap, all the fronts are marked with 3s, all the backs are lightly marked, three of them have 1's, and one of them has a 2. On the rod itself, it's either letters on the back, or 0's on the front. The Crankshaft seems to be stamped for the main bearings with no visible stamps for the rods.

KooK
10-18-2010, 05:23 AM
btw, I think I found the noisy bearing. I'm a little concerned of the fact that it's located only on one side, the other 3.5 bearings look good. Maybe some crap got under it when they installed it?

temperacerguy
10-18-2010, 05:25 AM
Ahh, I was incorrect.... I was thinking for the main bearings when I re-thought it, I realized I was wrong... yes, I have rebuilt many 5S-FEs (factory, economy, and Hi-comp performance)

on the 5S-FE, the ROD bearing sizes are marked both on the side of the big end (on the cap, near one of the rod bolts, opposite the locater tab groove), and on the end of the bearing on the side opposite of the locater tab... (if toyota bearings are used) There are 3 different std sized bearings (1,2,3) and a .25os bearing

Hope that helps.

temperacerguy
10-18-2010, 05:28 AM
did you have detonation on that engine? that doesn't look too much like oil starvation. What did the piston look like on that bore? any signs of detonation? make sure to check for a bent rod.

KooK
10-18-2010, 05:45 AM
did you have detonation on that engine? that doesn't look too much like oil starvation. What did the piston look like on that bore? any signs of detonation? make sure to check for a bent rod.

Actually I'm doing this all with the head on and the engine still in the car, so it's nothing I can really measure :). The car did sound fine on the 2 hour trip back, it only started making noise when I switched oil to what was probably a thinner weight. The spark plugs I took out all looked good, however I don't know what happened prior to these things getting put in (they look like they probably have 20k miles on them).

Also, the side opposite of the tab on the bearing (on the cap), perfect, thanks!

DudeMan
10-18-2010, 01:00 PM
Like temper said, the numbers on the crank and block are for the main's, the numbers on the bearing caps are for the rods, simple.

It sounds like you need 1, 1, 1, 2. Just double check with plastigage.

Not sure about the wear on that bearing though.. Usually with your main bearings you'll have a little more wear on the ones closest to the flywheel, but that doesn't really apply to the rod bearings.

DudeMan
10-18-2010, 01:00 PM
Double post..

KooK
10-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Went to Toyota today and he was like "No, you don't mix and match these, you either order a full set of 1's 2's or 3's" so I just got a set of series 3. If he's wrong, I'm sure it wont really even matter considering I've daily driven 10k+ rpm cars on race bearings. I'll plastigauge them, make sure they're within spec, and rock the hell out of them. Should be in tomorrow.

KoreanJoey
10-19-2010, 03:51 AM
I'll plastigauge them, make sure they're within spec, and rock the hell out of them.

That's all that really matters.

temperacerguy
10-19-2010, 08:45 AM
You need the correct bearings for the rods... you don't need "all the same bearing" the parts guy is full of shizzy. The correct bearings will allow tighter clearances than the plastiguage will allow. you will be close however and "within spec" #3 bearings on a rod marked for #1s however may be too tight.

Be weary however, that scoring looks like compression scoring.

DudeMan
10-19-2010, 11:07 PM
Yeah, that parts guy has his head jammed firmly up his ass..

^What do you mean the correct bearings will be tighter than spec?

My clearances were all good during the teardown so I ordered the same bearings, which were in spec upon reassembly..

KooK
10-20-2010, 12:41 AM
Actually the #3s are .0001 - .0005 thinner than the #1 bearings which should make the whole thing .0002 - .0010 looser if he's incorrect about this. If he's wrong I have no issue going back and telling him the bearings I just installed aren't right, I want the correct ones ordered. However if he's right, then all is good and well I suppose. There should be a large enough difference in the bearings that you can tell with plastigauge whether they're right or wrong.

KooK
10-21-2010, 01:08 AM
Went back to Toyota today and got the right bearings this time, should be in tomorrow.

KooK
10-22-2010, 03:43 AM
Tossed the new bearings in and MAN am I glad I went back and reordered the tighter ones, the 3's probably would have been out of spec. I'm letting the silicone setup around the oil pan right now.

DudeMan
10-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Just stumbled on a site with a bunch of good info, including the BGB's in PDF format.

http://gt4.mwp.id.au/