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View Full Version : Viper 5902 alarm/start in a 94 ST205



sodap0p
10-14-2010, 09:03 PM
Hey guys! Please double check my wiring before I attack this:

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab328/sodap0p/Viper5902-ST205wiring001.jpg

Being a JDM, I'll have to verify each wire as the data used is from the USDM model. (Thanks Kellen!)

Wish me luck! :)

sodap0p
10-14-2010, 11:21 PM
deleted, invalid info

acidice333
10-15-2010, 02:37 AM
Why do you need a diode? It should be fine without.
You can get the tach input from inside at the ECU or AC rather than running thru the firewall to the outside.

As for all the BTY connections, I run all my installs off of IG.

TEAMFaint
10-15-2010, 02:40 AM
Me and my other installer will go over this tomorrow AM my friend, looks like a few things may be off.
Things I can tell right now,

-Dont run a new line from the battery to inside of the cabin, you have 12v source under the column where you will do all your wiring.
-Dont worry about horn honk.
-Hood pin is safety feature, you dont have to do it on vipers but recommended so if you hood is propped the vehicle cannot be remotely started.
-Starter input (keyside of the starter kill) i have never had luck with starter kill, I`ll look more into this tomorrow morning.
-Ignition input does not go to the battery (will explain more in am)
-Acessory/Starter input does not go to the battery (will explain more in am)

I just want this to look nice and clean when youre done and not have a mess of wires or have a headache because something isnt working right.

TEAMFaint
10-15-2010, 02:41 AM
Why do you need a diode? It should be fine without.

I will post a screen shot of installers compinion that explains why.
Both wires need to be hooked up and have a diode attached.

Mr. Babb
10-15-2010, 02:52 AM
thats just to maintain the separate channels coming from each door

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 04:44 AM
Why do you need a diode? It should be fine without.
You can get the tach input from inside at the ECU or AC rather than running thru the firewall to the outside.

As for all the BTY connections, I run all my installs off of IG.

yeah, thanks for the tip for the tach, i'd prefer not to run minimal things out the firewall. I think I can get away with using the virtual tach.

Normally I agree with using the ignition wires to power the unit but, I have 0 gauge wire running to the back of my car, that splits at the back from one 0/2 to (2) 4/8, I was planning on getting all of my 12v from that one split, I plan to run an 8 gauge to the alarm and branch off all the 12v connections with a 'one to four' distribution block, I just think that looks a lot better then hacking up my ignition wires, which are smaller then these viper alarm wires.

thanks for the tips gents

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 04:56 AM
Me and my other installer will go over this tomorrow AM my friend, looks like a few things may be off.
Things I can tell right now, cool bro, thanks!

-Dont run a new line from the battery to inside of the cabin, you have 12v source under the column where you will do all your wiring. its there already, nothing huge to run.
-Dont worry about horn honk. but I want the alarm to be very loud, and I want to get air horns, like 2 sets, maybe even a train horn!!
-Hood pin is safety feature, you dont have to do it on vipers but recommended so if you hood is propped the vehicle cannot be remotely started.I dont trust people working on my car not to be stupid and leave the car in gear, and with no neutral safety switch, I dont want to take that chance..
-Starter input (keyside of the starter kill) i have never had luck with starter kill, I`ll look more into this tomorrow morning.I just cut the black/white wire in half, the half that is going to the key is getting connected to the GREEN wire, and the other side(which goes to the stater, gets connected to the VIOLET wire
-Ignition input does not go to the battery (will explain more in am)I have Ignition Input/Output(PINK VIPER WIRE(H3 harness)) going to the Black/Orange wire, which is IGN output
-Acessory/Starter input does not go to the battery (will explain more in am)accessory/starter input(H3- Red/Blk wire) aka: the feed wire, does need to come from 12volts, the output side of it is H3-Orange-Accessory Output(+)

I just want this to look nice and clean when youre done and not have a mess of wires or have a headache because something isnt working right. me too bro, me too :)

alltracNyx
10-15-2010, 04:58 AM
There are a couple wires that look a bit off, but I'm going based off of memory at the moment, and I haven't been an installer for a few years now, so that's a bit of a stretch for me, lol.

The door trigger wire is a negative trigger, so you want to use the green wire (from the alarm harness) for negative door trigger to connect to the red/white wire in the car, instead of the violet one that you have marked on the quick reference guide. You don't need horn honk (brown on the alarm harness) because you are hooking up the siren. And I'd agree that you do not need a dedicated line ran to the battery, but it's your call.

Those are just the things that jumped out at me. But you definitely want to test all of your wires before making any connections. Toyotas are pretty consistent with their wiring, but it's never worth the risk.

acidice333
10-15-2010, 05:46 AM
Hehe I still don't understand why the diode is needed.. but I am interested in as to why?

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 07:33 AM
There are a couple wires that look a bit off, but I'm going based off of memory at the moment, and I haven't been an installer for a few years now, so that's a bit of a stretch for me, lol.

The door trigger wire is a negative trigger, so you want to use the green wire (from the alarm harness) for negative door trigger to connect to the red/white wire in the car, instead of the violet one that you have marked on the quick reference guide. You don't need horn honk (brown on the alarm harness) because you are hooking up the siren. And I'd agree that you do not need a dedicated line ran to the battery, but it's your call.

Those are just the things that jumped out at me. But you definitely want to test all of your wires before making any connections. Toyotas are pretty consistent with their wiring, but it's never worth the risk.

You are so correct, I totally overlooked that, it is a negative trigger and should be connected as such. Thanks everyone for your help I really appreciate it.

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 07:35 AM
I guess the diode would retain the ability to open just the drivers door, or both by pressing the unlock twice? I am just guessing...lol, I do have factory keyless entry though, not that I care if it works after the alarm is in.

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 08:41 AM
updated install sheet:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab328/sodap0p/Viper5902-ST205wiring001-1.jpg

acidice333
10-15-2010, 09:33 AM
Heh so you just figured to put it in there? I thought there was a source you were using that said to use a diode?

alltracNyx
10-15-2010, 04:37 PM
I'm not a fan of virtual tach. Connect the tach wire.

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 07:29 PM
Heh so you just figured to put it in there? I thought there was a source you were using that said to use a diode?

yeah, both sources I used had that info about the diodes...hehe

12volt and my buddy Kellen :)

sodap0p
10-15-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm not a fan of virtual tach. Connect the tach wire.

I never had a problem, but yeah, if I can find the wire off the ecu (I'll ask ChrisD tomorrow if he knows) Its way easier to just tap into it.

I'll update the install sheet once I get it all in and working with the proper wire setup, so my friends with 205's can install one of these alarms easily.

Thanks again for all your help guys!! :)

ChrisD
10-15-2010, 09:44 PM
The tach wire technically does not go to the ECU, but it is in the area. Basically it should be a black/white wire coming from the instrument cluster, going down to the plug called IG1 which sits right beside the ECU and connects all the interior stuff to the engine/ecu harness. I don't know which pin it is though since I don't have the 205 book and where it might be in the bgbonline the links are broken since KM started fixing things.

TEAMFaint
10-16-2010, 06:43 PM
Run tach to the actual engine itself. Best source.
I am running virtual tach on my car and its just not recommended for cars these age.
It senses voltage and these things (especially vipers) are VERY picky with their voltage.
What this will mean to you is the car will start, then stop, then start, then stop, then start, then stop.
Or the turbo timer mode the car will just shut off after 3 seconds instead of the minute,
Or once started youll put the key in the ignition and start to drive and the car will try and start itself again.

Always run an actual tach on cars these old. Keep in mind a 94 is 16 years old now.

alltracNyx
10-16-2010, 07:09 PM
Run tach to the actual engine itself. Best source.
I am running virtual tach on my car and its just not recommended for cars these age.
It senses voltage and these things (especially vipers) are VERY picky with their voltage.
What this will mean to you is the car will start, then stop, then start, then stop, then start, then stop.
Or the turbo timer mode the car will just shut off after 3 seconds instead of the minute,
Or once started youll put the key in the ignition and start to drive and the car will try and start itself again.

Always run an actual tach on cars these old. Keep in mind a 94 is 16 years old now.

Agree with this 100%. Sometimes, it's not even just a problem with older cars. The top two reasons cars came back to the shop with remote start problems was for transponder bypass issues, and lazy installers not running tach. I've even seen some installers crank up the voltage real high, so that the car is actually overcranking on start up. Even if it's more work, if you do it right the first time, you won't have to keep going back into the same install.

sodap0p
10-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Run tach to the actual engine itself. Best source.
I am running virtual tach on my car and its just not recommended for cars these age.
It senses voltage and these things (especially vipers) are VERY picky with their voltage.
What this will mean to you is the car will start, then stop, then start, then stop, then start, then stop.
Or the turbo timer mode the car will just shut off after 3 seconds instead of the minute,
Or once started youll put the key in the ignition and start to drive and the car will try and start itself again.

Always run an actual tach on cars these old. Keep in mind a 94 is 16 years old now.


Hey Kellen, did you double check the other wires for me? I will change the tach wire as recommended by all of you. I never had a problem with virtual tach, but I really dont want to run into the issues you described...lol

sodap0p
10-16-2010, 07:28 PM
Agree with this 100%. Sometimes, it's not even just a problem with older cars. The top two reasons cars came back to the shop with remote start problems was for transponder bypass issues, and lazy installers not running tach. I've even seen some installers crank up the voltage real high, so that the car is actually overcranking on start up. Even if it's more work, if you do it right the first time, you won't have to keep going back into the same install.

very wise words :)

sodap0p
11-15-2010, 04:37 AM
*UPDATE*

It's in and mostly functional.

For some reason the brake pedal is not shutting off the auto start; I have the brown connected to the green/white wire(the one that has 12v when the pedal is pushed). Not a huge deal, but more of a safety issue... I have the dip switch, hood pop, and key fob ability to shut it down, but still, its nice to be able to hit the brake pedal too...

I still need to locate the horn wire and put a push button switch for the turbo timer, but I programmed it for 60seconds to get that part out of the way.

Parking lights work without any diodes, I didnt use the side markers, just went with the regular parking lights. ( you have to unbolt the interior fuse box and spin her around, on the back find solid green wire(test for 12v when you turn on the parking lights))
Also, you have to open the units front cover(I didnt find this out right away), there is a small 10amp fuse, it needs to go in the (+) slots, not the (-). This adds power to the lights.

If anyone wants to put one of these in your cars, I can do it easily. The main part that made it even easier was the old turbo timer interface/harness thingy. It made a 'y' for most of the ignition items for the starter part of the device, so I simply cut, soldiered and shrink tubed. The alarm wires were mostly 'tie on' connections. It just makes sense to rip out the turbo timer and use the wires for the starter/alarm, since it has a built in turbo timer, valet mode, and more.

alltracNyx
11-15-2010, 07:14 PM
*UPDATE*

It's in and mostly functional.

For some reason the brake pedal is not shutting off the auto start; I have the brown connected to the green/white wire(the one that has 12v when the pedal is pushed). Not a huge deal, but more of a safety issue... I have the dip switch, hood pop, and key fob ability to shut it down, but still, its nice to be able to hit the brake pedal too...

I know that it is a stupid question, but I'll ask it. Do you have the correct brown wire hooked up to the green/white brake switch wire? It seems pretty impossible to mess up, because then your siren wouldn't work, but I figured I'd ask because it happens to the best of us.

Also, did that green/white wire test properly? No voltage at rest, and 12v when the brake pedal is depressed? Also, are there any programmable options on this unit that need to be turned on in order for this to work? If all has been checked, then there may be an issue with the circuit on the viper unit itself, in which case you have a limited lifetime warranty.

sodap0p
11-16-2010, 01:10 AM
I know that it is a stupid question, but I'll ask it. Do you have the correct brown wire hooked up to the green/white brake switch wire?yes It seems pretty impossible to mess up, because then your siren wouldn't work, but I figured I'd ask because it happens to the best of us. No biggy, it's good to check :) yeah, the siren works, lights, starts up fine, alarm works, impact, range is good.

Also, did that green/white wire test properly? yeah, I'm seriously baffled, although Im going to test the wire while its been remote started by applying 12volts to it and see if that shuts it down.No voltage at rest, and 12v when the brake pedal is depressed?yeah dude Also, are there any programmable options on this unit that need to be turned on in order for this to work?I thought that too, so I double checked and saw nothing. It's kinda why I raised the question in the forum, to see if anyone has any other logical idea's If all has been checked, then there may be an issue with the circuit on the viper unit itself, in which case you have a limited lifetime warranty. I'm sure they'll argue it's not installed by a shop that they "train installers" to install the alarms.

sodap0p
11-16-2010, 01:19 AM
Oh and I thought I'd mention, these units sell for $399.99 including basic installation at Futureshop! I hate the place, but I thought I'd offer that to those that dont want to DIY. It's an amazing alarm/starter, I love the range mostly, and the features are sweet.
I love the 5901 as much, I almost prefer it because its a smaller remote. The 5902 has a nicer interface on the remote...no biggie really. They sell the 5901 for $299.99 too, Its a hell of a deal.

acidice333
11-16-2010, 01:31 AM
Ive got the older 791XV in both my Celicas, with remote starts hooked up to both but the only thing I don't like is the 479V 2way remotes or at least this one I have I got a little water on my remote, everything still worked but it just quit communicating with the car and I've opened it up and cleaned it and it still won't connect and yes I've tried programming it back into the alarm brain.

Perhaps I'll upgrade to the 5900 series one day hehe..

alltracNyx
11-16-2010, 05:58 PM
Well if you shoot 12v straight to the brake input on the viper, and that doesn't shut it down, then you have your answer. Do you know if the warranty card says something specific about installation at an authorized shop?

If it does shut it off, then the green/white wire isn't supplying the necessary voltage, in which case, you can try a relay, but that really shouldn't be necessary. It seems like you have done everything correctly, so that's why my inclination is leaning towards the unit itself. Hopefully, they'll honor their warranty if it comes down to that...