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Ghost
09-27-2010, 06:07 AM
How expensive or how much work does it need to be replace ? on st185, 91 alltrac

The Captain
09-27-2010, 10:46 AM
It's a belt. Always replace the water pump. I'm guessing $4-$500.

---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 AM ----------


It's a belt. Always replace the water pump. I'm guessing $4-$500.

Depending on the mileage you may also want to replace any idler and tensioner bearings.

Fox 21 Alpha
09-27-2010, 06:30 PM
Belt and water pump can be had for around $120-150ish? Most people recommend using a Toyota pump, ATs don't seem to like other pumps as well, even when its a Aisan. Any good OEM replacement will work for the belt, could probably get more miles out of a better one. Some of the aftermarket HKS and Greddy belts are expensive as hell but supposed to last a lot longer.

Buts it the labor that kills. You either have to pull the engine, or undo the right side engine mount and basically tilt it up a little to give a you a little extra space and do everything in that tiny little space. Some guys who do it regularly can do it in 6-8 hours, maybe faster or slower.

A shop would probably rape you if you paid someone to due it, but depends on who you can find. I think the belt is supposed to be done every 60k, and the tensioneder and idler pulleys and stuff is supposed to be done every 120k.

Luni
09-28-2010, 12:03 AM
I wouldnt use anything but OEM parts.

temperacerguy
09-29-2010, 12:25 AM
Most people recommend using a Toyota pump, ATs don't seem to like other pumps as well, even when its a Aisan. .


I wouldnt use anything but OEM parts.

Could you please quantify these statements...

Why does the all trac not "seem to like other pumps as well"

can you point to any instances where there have been premature pump failure with use of non-Toyota parts? Or is this just a "well it's not OEM so it must be crap" feeling?

4thgenceli
09-29-2010, 01:24 AM
Could you please quantify these statements...

Why does the all trac not "seem to like other pumps as well"

can you point to any instances where there have been premature pump failure with use of non-Toyota parts? Or is this just a "well it's not OEM so it must be crap" feeling?

While I can't speak directly to the alltrac (without a space), I know for a fact my wife's Mazda is the same way with OEM vs. non-OEM products. Not the 'OEM -like' products from the parts store, but it ONLY likes OEM products from Mazda and/or Ford. Plug wires, plugs, belts, pumps, etc.

It's not a 'well it's not OEM so it must be crap feeling', just that generally speaking Toyota engines seem to prefer the OEM Toyota products over aftermarket products. My old 3sfe was the same way, it only ran the way I liked it if I put OEM products in.

temperacerguy
09-29-2010, 06:34 AM
While I can't speak directly to the alltrac (without a space), I know for a fact my wife's Mazda is the same way with OEM vs. non-OEM products. Not the 'OEM -like' products from the parts store, but it ONLY likes OEM products from Mazda and/or Ford. Plug wires, plugs, belts, pumps, etc.

It's not a 'well it's not OEM so it must be crap feeling', just that generally speaking Toyota engines seem to prefer the OEM Toyota products over aftermarket products. My old 3sfe was the same way, it only ran the way I liked it if I put OEM products in.

my question is where's the quantifiable difference here? what does "does not like" mean? Is there a dyno difference here? Are there documented failures directly atributable to these aftermarket products?

I'm not trying to be a prick here... but you see, I've worked for both Toyota, and in the aftermarket parts business. I know for a fact that while your car is being serviced at Toyota, that this does not guarentee toyota boxed parts are going on your car... Hang outside any Toyota parts department and you'll see a wholesale parts truck pull up at least a few times per day. This is the same dealer that is first to put blame on those same aftermarket parts whenever the car comes in for a problem.

In fact, Toyota doesn't even manufacture the vast majority of parts on your car.... There are manufacturers like Nippondenso, Nissin, Akibono and tons of others who make not only the parts that go to the toyota factory to manufacture the car, to be boxed for replacement parts to sit in Toyota boxes in the shelves at the toyota warehouses, but also to be placed in their own boxes to be sold through retailers such as Checker, Autozone, and the others... same parts, same quality, different boxes and vastly different prices. (Just an FYI, NGK makes the factory plugs/plug wires for Mazda, and ND(Nippondenso) makes them for toyota)

So I ask again. What quantifiable differences have been shown between OEM, and quality Aftermarket components (Please note, I am talking about quality aftermarket companies, not "Jim-Bob's discount auto parts".)? not "feel", not "seems", but quantifiable or directly atributable problems?

KoreanJoey
09-30-2010, 02:27 AM
One thing is that the manufacturers are more inclined to do a thorough job of quality controlling their product for a vehicle manufacturer than they would be for NAPA or Autozone. That's the only thing I can think of, but yes, even name brand parts (Aisin, Denso, ETC) seem like they fail more often than OEM Toyota brand products.

*shrug*

Fox 21 Alpha
09-30-2010, 03:04 AM
That's just what I've hard from people who've installed different types. I speak only of waterpumps, not sure about the other stuff like belts and such. Many a person have used other brand of waterpumps and they work ok, its just they seem to fail sooner then a Toyota OEM. And it seems there's some discrepencies on the number of teeth and possibly even the size of the pulley itself on aftermarket water pumps, even on the Aisins, which I believe is who makes the OEM for Toyota. Perhaps they changed it slightly for their private line to fit more vehicles or something. Not sure, just tellin you what I've heard from a couple different people who've installed some waterpumps on their vehicles.

If your short on cash get an aftermarket one, it will work fine for awhile, or maybe even just as good or longer then an OEM one. I'm not sure. Most people like the peace of mind though on the ATs of OEM waterpumps cause no one wants to go in and repull the engine 3000 miles later cause they got a bad waterpump (even if its just a lemon and they'll give you a new unit).

The Captain
09-30-2010, 02:38 PM
Could you please quantify these statements...

Why does the all trac not "seem to like other pumps as well"

can you point to any instances where there have been premature pump failure with use of non-Toyota parts? Or is this just a "well it's not OEM so it must be crap" feeling?

YES!!!!!

I replaced the timing belt/water pump on my g/f's 4Runner with an aftermarket water pump. She came to the airport during a long break to meet me for lunch. The godd*amn, piece of sh*t, pump failed 10,000 miles before the next change was due. In the parking lot, at the airport, in the middle of my trip. Anti freeze everywhere. I almost delayed my next flight. I had to take the bus to the employee parking lot, swap cars so she could get home and limp her car back to the parking lot. The tow job cost $150. I saved $30 on the pump. Plus the hassle, plus the stress. Do the math. Any questions?

If there is one thing I've learned in my 30, yes 30 years of working on cars. For parts that will leave you fucked, by gen-u-wine, undisputed top quality OEM parts. Period.

The only thing I buy non OEM is spark plugs and fluids. Your replacing a part that's going to cost a pretty penny in labor. It's buried on the side of the engine. If it fails it pops your timing belt or pisses out your anti freeze all over the road and leaves you stranded.

It will cost you five times as much to do it twice.

Facime
09-30-2010, 08:07 PM
I think there is alot of opinion being floated around as "fact" in this thread. I also think the real truth lies somewhere in between.

Is the Captain's anecdotal evidence valid? yes, but its hardly empiracle data. I could site several cases in which OEM parts have failed prematurely and in at least one case failed right out of the box for me. That too is hardly enough data to draw a conclusion.

Until someone here can produce a study showing the rates of failure for OEM vs same name brand parts house products (Toyota box vs Denso, Aisan, etc) its all just opinion, and we draw our own conclusions.

There are other factors involved as well such as proper installation affecting lifespan. For example you can put a belt on TOO tight and cause the premature failure of a water pump and/or alternator. Pull your spark plug wires incorrectly and you can cause them to fail. Improper torque specs or sequences can also cause failure...of both OEM and aftermarket parts.

The fact of the matter is, parts fail. Its the nature of the beast. Some people FEEL better using OEM parts. Some people feel better in the wallet NOT using OEM parts. As the only person who ever touches my car, and being inherently cheap, I feel that every parts decision I make is handled separately. Sometimes it just makes sense to use an OEM part and sometimes it just doesnt. In most cases I try to buy same name aftermarket, like a Denso fuel pump or alternator, but I buy them rockauto rather than toyota.


but I digress...
The job at hand is not an easy one and one one that I like to do as infrequently as possible. For that reason I might be inclined to use OEM parts in this case, but I would need to see the cost difference between a toyota pump and a good name aftermarket. For me it comes down to dollar per calorie.

ChrisD
09-30-2010, 08:23 PM
I believe a lot of us prefer the quality control and rigour that Toyota uses (6 sigma, etc) and demands from its dedicated suppliers. Other parts manufacturers are a bit more of an unknown. It is because of this general unknown that, especially for those inconvenient and highly important parts, that many of us opt for OEM.

With that said we do use aftermarket for many things, especially when we are looking for something with a performance benefit to Toyota OEM parts. It is the regular maintenance items that people tend to stick with Toyota.

KoreanJoey
10-01-2010, 06:16 AM
<<< Works for Toyota Dealer, again, yes aftermarket parts fail more than replace factory parts.

Facime
10-01-2010, 07:23 AM
oh nvm

gt4lechacz
10-10-2010, 04:59 AM
I can brig up one instace where wrong pump will not work...
As a matter of fact this is a big warning to anyone runing a ST205 motor.
A friend of mine has killed a 205 motor by running an MR2 water pump on his 205 motor.
Same gen, and apparently same motor but the pumps are different and the Mr2 pump does not keep up.