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temperacerguy
09-10-2010, 05:09 AM
OK, first of all, I have a 90 US model all trac with 46k miles on it. I purchased it 8 years ago with a blown head gasket, yet an immaculate interior and exterior. pulled the engine and transmission out of it and had it sitting in the back of my shop for "when I get around to it"

I also just purchased a complete engine/tranny/ecu from a 91-93 RC edition (with the air/water intercooler)

Here are my questions:

1. are the ECM pinouts the same between the US and JDM RC edition ECMs?

1.a. (if not, what are the differences)

2. Will the engine run properly with 93 octane US fuel?

3. I have read of people getting CELs as there is no A/W intercooler ECU. Is there a fix for this... perhaps a resistor?

4. Other than extending the harness, and dealing with the A/W intercooler ECU, is this a "Plug and Play" swap?

5. Are there any other issues with the engine/body harness incompatibility? (for example, warning lights, or tach issues)

Thank you in advance for your help with this.

The Captain
09-10-2010, 03:31 PM
*disclaimer: All of this is the best of my knowledge. I could be wrong.

1. Dunno

2. Mine doesn't, I run Octane boost.

3. Yes. cms-gt4 dealt with this, perhaps he'll chime in.

4. You didn't mention which harness and AFM. If you ditch the RC AFM and use the US AFM and ECU, it'll plug and play.
If you use the RC AFM, you'll have to rework the JDM/UDM harness to go in the right side of the firewall. From what I remember
the US and RC/CS AFM's have different plugs/pinouts.

5. No other issues. Swap the speedometer gear stuff.

I have an RC engine running the US wire harness. I'm using the US AFM and a Blitz access ECU. I've also tested the US and JDM ECU's and they work fine with no CEL (with the EGR VSV plugged in). Your other option is to buy a JDM ATA or MR2 ECU that doesn't "look" for the WTA stuff, but you'll have to use the US AFM. The other advantage to those ECU's is they don't look for the EGR stuff, however if you simply plug in the EGR VSV and tie it out of the way it prevents a CEL from the US unit. My WTA pump is wired through a relay triggered by the ignition.


http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43908&highlight=ecu+pinouts

Read the whole thread. Try searching "ecu pinouts"

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43908&highlight=ecu+pinouts

ChrisD
09-10-2010, 04:33 PM
I also just purchased a complete engine/tranny/ecu from a 91-93 RC edition (with the air/water intercooler)

Here are my questions:

1. are the ECM pinouts the same between the US and JDM RC edition ECMs?

1.a. (if not, what are the differences)

Nope, but if you scroll down here, all of the pinouts are listed: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81


2. Will the engine run properly with 93 octane US fuel?

Should be ok on 93. Usually in Canada we try to use 94. Use the highest you can. Watch for any signs of knock response, as that is the best indicator you'll probably have.


3. I have read of people getting CELs as there is no A/W intercooler ECU. Is there a fix for this... perhaps a resistor?

I believe that it is simply a matter of sending the WIN pin to ground.


4. Other than extending the harness, and dealing with the A/W intercooler ECU, is this a "Plug and Play" swap?

There may be slight changes with the 3rd ECU plug, also possibly little things here and there. But nothing that we can't help with. Shouldn't be that bad.


5. Are there any other issues with the engine/body harness incompatibility? (for example, warning lights, or tach issues)

Nope, those are all separate from the engine harness. If you are using the RC trans then you will have to use your USDM speedo sensor. USDM is cable driven while JDM is electronic.

temperacerguy
09-11-2010, 01:59 AM
Thank you for the responses:

I will clarify some things.

I was planning on using the JDM harness. From what I read here, the RC AFM is different, which is why I was going to use the RC AFM/harness/ECU. could someone please chime in as to the difference with this AFM, and if it's worth it...

I have probably 15-20 SW22 ECMs sitting around, and an equal number of AFMs for that car, so a US ECU might be an option.

If I go with a US ECM, with the EGR VSV, that might also just be a resistor option... I will test that out, as I hate having things dangling... I like to eliminate unneccissary things, not add them.

Thank you for your help guys. I really appreciate it. I will probably be starting the install in about a month. I would like to get the car and the engine here to FL where I am living, then clean up the engine (powdercoat/paint and the like) before the install. I will do my best to try and post pictures.

alltracman78
09-12-2010, 02:54 PM
Answers for your clarifications.

1 Use the US harness. Forget what anyone says, USE THE US HARNESS.
Repin the ECU/chassis end to match a 92/93 US spec harness, this will make it work with the RC ECU. Don't forget to repin the connector on the chassis harness that plugs into the ECU. You're going to have to add a pin to one of the empty spaces on that connector and ground that pin to the chassis. Adding this pin and grounding it will get rid of the MIL for the IC ECU. If you take that connector and hold it with the pin ends facing you the empty space should be on the top row, the 5th one from the left. The corresponding pin labeled on the circuit board for the ECU is W.

You are going to have to use the RC AFM connector instead of the US one. No biggie, 4 of the pins are the same as your US harness, the 5th "extra" pin [brown wire] is a second ground for the AFM. All you need to do is splice it into the other brown wire.

Because you have a pre revision harness [90/91] there are also some other connectors that are different. Not because the engine is an RC, but because it's a post revision engine [92/93]. All you need to do is swap the parts from your engine. For example the alt connector is different, IIRC the knock sensor also, and a few other ones, I can't remember them all off the top of my head. Or, if you're fairly mechanically inclined you can swap/repin connectors as needed instead of swapping parts.

Finally [for #1], I would suggest you use the RC AFM and ECU. IMO the RC ECU is the best ECU for the gen II 3SGTE, better than aftermarket ones like BLITZ or Toms or whatever.

-the post revision ECUs have better diagnostics than the pre revision ones. This makes it easier to figure out a problem.
-the RC [and all homologation] AFM is larger. This means it can measure increases in airflow [from mods] better than the regular one. And, the RC ECU is already mapped to account for this higher airflow. Aftermarket ECUs are mapped for the smaller AFM.
*Just FYI, either AFM will "work" with either ECU, the car will run and drive fine, but you're risking engine damage once you start really getting on the gas for obvious reasons*

2 Use the RC ECU, for the reasons above

3 FYI you don't need to add a resistor for the EGR on a US ECU as long as you're also using a US harness. Cars with Cali spec emissions came with a temp sensor in the EGR valve. Non Cali spec cars [Federal spec emissions] have a resistor that comes plugged into the stock harness and is in place of that temp sensor. So there are actually 2 US versions of the engine wiring harness for each revision. A Cali spec emissions harness and a Federal spec emisisons harness. All US ecus have an EGR code "stored" in their programming, there is no separate Cali spec ECU. As long as it sees the correct resistance value from either the temp sensor or the resistor it won't set a code.

I hope that answers your questions.

My fiance wanted me to include Michael Jackson, so here he is in all his dancing glory :mj: :mj:

temperacerguy
09-13-2010, 07:26 AM
Excellent post!

Thank you!

Now, I just hope that I can find my old All trac harness... It's probably boxed up somewhere. If it is, it's time to pull out the Kaboom cleaner and the pressure washer :-)

I have no problem re-pinning the plugs (I don't like cutting harnesses any more than I have to. However are the color codes the same between the harnesses? I just want to make sure I get the pins in the right sockets.

temperacerguy
09-13-2010, 12:02 PM
Answers for your clarifications.

1 Use the US harness. Repin the ECU/chassis end to match a 92/93 US spec harness, this will make it work with the RC ECU. Don't forget to repin the connector on the chassis harness that plugs into the ECU.


Again, thank you for all of your help. Your post really cleared things up for me. I do have a few questions however regarding the harness re-pinning. Here's a picture:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/ECMPinoutstotallist.jpg

1: on the USDM 90-91 harness, there are 3 pins that are not used... "STJ", "EGR", and "OX2". I understand that "EGR" and "OX2" are not used as the JDM do not have an EGR valve, or a 2ndary O2 sensor. But what is "STJ"? (all circled in Blue)

2 On the JDM ECU, there are a 5 pins with nothing coresponding on the USDM harness. "EVP", "RLY", "ECO", "CCO", and "ACT" What are these for, and what has to be done? (circled in Green)

3: On the US harness, there is only one "T" while on the JDM harness there is "T1" and "T2" What are these, and how do you fix this? (circled in purple)


Thank you in advance,

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 AM ----------

OK, figured out that STJ is "cold start injector" so I am assuming that the RC engine has no cold start injector, and that the computer does start up enrichment through the main injectors?

"ACT" is "Air Conditioner amplifier" any idea what the hell this is...

90ToyAllTrac
09-13-2010, 04:25 PM
You should probably check out my thread, I started the (JDM not RC) exact same project in may and Im still not done, Im on the wiring, repinning, issues now and have been for over a month. 90 US all trac, installed 93 JDM engine, JDM harness, JDM ECU. I still dont know if I will end up having to part the car out or, actually have to swap everything back just in hopes of having a running car again so I can get rid of it. Im sure my problem is simple, but finding it is not.

3 whole pages of wacky wild fun
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49249

temperacerguy
09-13-2010, 04:49 PM
You should probably check out my thread, I started the (JDM not RC) exact same project in may and Im still not donehttp://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49249

Yeah... It was your thread, and alltracman's post that made me decide to go with the US harness. I would much rather swap some pins and connectors on the sensors than mess with all harness to chassis plugs.

I just need to be sure that the JDM ECM is getting all the inputs/outputs that it need to function properly

90ToyAllTrac
09-13-2010, 05:18 PM
I would think there would be more repinning to do with that scenario.

Otherwise, the info about the speedo cable is correct, swap the cable and sensor, and check for that starter wire plug to make sure the pins are in the same place. Other wise Ive got a pantload of pics and stories from every step of the way if get stuck on anything.

temperacerguy
09-14-2010, 03:15 AM
I would think there would be more repinning to do with that scenario.

Otherwise, the info about the speedo cable is correct, swap the cable and sensor, and check for that starter wire plug to make sure the pins are in the same place. Other wise Ive got a pantload of pics and stories from every step of the way if get stuck on anything.

Well, as the engine harness will be the US harness, that means that the chassis to engine harness connections will plug and play... Once I re-pin the US engine harness to match with the JDM ECM (and some of the sensors), this is going to be a plug and play scenereo. It looks like I may have to run some extra wires (perhaps 4), but that's alot easier than going through the hastle it looks like to get the JDM engine harness to interface with the US chassis harness

90ToyAllTrac
09-14-2010, 05:17 AM
It was only one wire. Given its not working yet, but thats what all the swapsters told me.

alltracman78
09-14-2010, 05:28 AM
Again, thank you for all of your help. Your post really cleared things up for me. I do have a few questions however regarding the harness re-pinning. Here's a picture:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/temperacerguy/ECMPinoutstotallist.jpg

1: on the USDM 90-91 harness, there are 3 pins that are not used... "STJ", "EGR", and "OX2". I understand that "EGR" and "OX2" are not used as the JDM do not have an EGR valve, or a 2ndary O2 sensor. But what is "STJ"? (all circled in Blue)

2 On the JDM ECU, there are a 5 pins with nothing coresponding on the USDM harness. "EVP", "RLY", "ECO", "CCO", and "ACT" What are these for, and what has to be done? (circled in Green)

3: On the US harness, there is only one "T" while on the JDM harness there is "T1" and "T2" What are these, and how do you fix this? (circled in purple)


Thank you in advance,

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 AM ----------

OK, figured out that STJ is "cold start injector" so I am assuming that the RC engine has no cold start injector, and that the computer does start up enrichment through the main injectors?

"ACT" is "Air Conditioner amplifier" any idea what the hell this is...

Your pinouts aren't complete. Nor are some of the "codes" complete. For example it's not T1, it's TE1 and TE2. TE1 is for checking codes [jump TE1 and E1 in the DIAG box]. TE2 is the updated, "better" diagnostics In the post revision ECU. Jump TE2 and E1, drive the car and it will [sometimes, if it can detect a problem] pull codes that the ECU won't normally see. Your 90 DIAG box should have it listed on the "map" inside, though you're probably going to have to add the wire for it. I forgot about the wire not being there.

STJ is for the cold start injector. The RC has it also, it's just missing from your pinouts. You have the pre revision pinouts, once you change to the post revision pinouts STJ will be in the correct position.

EVP is for the EVAP system [charcoal canister]. JDM cars had a more advanced version and they used a VSV instead of the coolant temp one USDM cars used. Don't worry about it.

ECO, CCO and ACT are all for chassis info. I don't remember off the top of my head what they're for, but I do know they're the same for USDM and JDM post revision. You just need to make sure your harness is pinned for that.

RLY is actually the "pin" you need to ground to get rid of the MIL for not having an IC ECU. I totally forgot that. W [the pin I told you in my last post] is actually the pin going to the check engine light.

ChrisD
09-14-2010, 05:02 PM
alltracman summed it up pretty good.

ECO and CCO are JDM only pins, and are not needed. ACT is the AC clutch magnet switch, ignore it if you don't have this on your original. If you did, add it.