PDA

View Full Version : thermal (phenolic) intake spacers



not12listen
08-23-2010, 06:44 AM
http://www.px3auto.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=101252&c=867371&i=155962966

i've done a search on a few boards, and google'd for reviews/results as well. as of yet, no one has shown clear proof that devices such as the one linked above do in fact work AND data demonstrating it.

a few have opinions based on reason and logic, which is fine. but, having data is far more helpful. :)

i will be purchasing this type of thermal spacing device for my 3sge/aw11 and my 4age/kp61. unfortunately, i'm going to follow suit with everyone else and not provide any before/after data. :(

but, i will try getting some temp readings of the intake manifolds with the spacers installed. then someone can compare those versus without the spacer... and HOPEFULLY, we'll get some sort of reasoning for using OR not using devices such as these.

i will refrain from acquiring dyno results as certain portions of my setup will not be stock and might throw off the numbers.

but, if i am mistaken, and someone DOES have actual temp data, please share it. :)

The Captain
08-23-2010, 03:21 PM
I've often been curious of this. Any metal under the hood will eventually rise to underhood temperature. Given enough time. Might be useful for a drag run. I guess the heat from the head up the manifold would result in a thermal decline as the heat dissipated. I think the horsepower difference has to be minuscule.

not12listen
08-23-2010, 04:40 PM
i agree that the HP difference will be minimal as well. but, that isn't what i'm after. i just want a better running car, with reduced chances of detonation under any circumstance.

along those lines, i'm sending off all 5 injectors (cold start is included) for a full cleaning/balancing to Witch Hunter, installing a brand new factory fuel pump, and replacing the factory ignition system with a multi-spark setup.

so, with the reduced intake air/manifold temps, consistent fuel delivery, ignition system that (in theory) burns everything inside the cylinder, i should have a very smooth and clean burning engine.

i had toyed with the idea of having the intake manifold sandblasted then thermal/ceramic coated to even further reduce air/intake temps... but, i don't know of any local shop or the cost.

Mafix
08-24-2010, 09:05 PM
i don't want to be the guy that says it but...
every single thing on that website is a gimick.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

and those are plastic gaskets not spacers

The Captain
08-24-2010, 09:16 PM
i don't want to be the guy that says it but...
every single thing on that website is a gimick.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

and those are plastic gaskets not spacers
Wow. Yeah. Cheezy website.

You're better off coating the exhaust stuff. Keep the heat from getting under the hood in the first place. You can't do anything about the heat from combustion, you can only do something about it before or after. If you coat the intake manifold, it will have the reverse effect on shutdown. Holding the heat in. Cold air intake, coated headers/exhaust manifold and pipe. I have my pipe wrapped all the way to the flex pipe under the car.

not12listen
08-25-2010, 02:05 AM
i know that THAT particular website is fulled with gimmicks. i had no intention of purchasing anything from them. it was more for informational and reference purposes.

aye87
08-25-2010, 02:26 AM
i have fuel ionzer magnet and it does not work as advertised and i paid like 70 for it but at least it is made from japan

90CelicaST
08-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Doing a quick search for "Hondata heatshield" and reading some forums where people have installed one is showing that it does infact work. Now whether the ones you get(since it won't be coming from Hondata) work or not is up in the air, since you haven't provided a manufacturer to research results from.

joe's gt
08-26-2010, 06:04 AM
I am quite sure it will have no noticeable affect. The only thing it does is thermally isolate the intake manifold from the head. Sure this will help slow the heating of the manifold, but bottom line is the temperature will eventually equalize and most likely won't be much cooler than the metal manifold. Now if you have a whole manifold made of a low thermal conductive material (ie: carbon fiber) it probably could make significant difference.

Total heat transfer per unit of time is a function of thermal conductivity, surface area, temperature difference, and material thickness.

While the plate may have low thermal conductivity, its thickness is small, resulting in a lot of heat transferred to the metal manifold. Contact surface area between the head and intake manifold remains the same whether its through a low thermal conductive plate or a metal flange. The total heat transferred per unit of time remains nearly the same because of the low plate thickness.

not12listen
08-26-2010, 06:30 AM
i was looking for the 8mm thick version, instead of the factory thickness that that particular store offers.

ChrisD
08-26-2010, 04:42 PM
If I were spending the money and wanted a phenolic spacer, I would get the ATS one: http://atsracing.net/Parts.mvc/Details/E-INTAKE-SPC-2 which is significantly thicker and far more likely to isolate heat xfer.

not12listen
08-26-2010, 04:49 PM
the problem with that specific ATS phenolic spacer is that it REMOVES the TVIS device entirely.

being that i have a 3SGE, i refuse to get rid of a device that is beneficial for my engine.

if i were to supercharge the 3SGE, then yes i would remove the TVIS entirely.

ChrisD
08-26-2010, 05:40 PM
I have a 3sgte and I still want to keep mine too. ;)

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

So short answer: Can't hurt, but probably don't expect big gains.

not12listen
08-26-2010, 06:29 PM
yeah... TVIS has a positive impact on our engines. i do not understand the point of removing it. seems rather backwards to me.

i do not expect EARTH SHATTERING results. :) i'm just hoping for the air that is coming into the intake manifold to be cooler, and for the intake manifold to NOT be scorching death hot.

i am not looking for HP/Torque differences. i'm just hoping for better emissions numbers or a smoother running engine.

Facime
08-26-2010, 06:47 PM
While TVIS does in fact do something beneficial, it is also a major restriction to flow at higher boost levels, so its something of a trade off. Im of the belief that Toyota pretty much knows what its doing and so I tend not to redesign too much of their stuff...But Im always open to PROVEN upgrades. Phenolic spacers are not one of those things.

not12listen
08-26-2010, 07:49 PM
well, as i prefer NA, worrying about loss of power at higher boost levels never enters my mind. :)

and i agree that Toyota knows a hell of a lot more than i do. :) but, i do set about doing slight 'tweaks' here and there... but, i'm certainly not of the mindset to re-invent the wheel. :)

not12listen
08-27-2010, 11:09 PM
ok, some good news on this topic.

i have been in contact with a company that CAN make 8mm thick phenolic spacers. a '1 off' is horribly expensive... so, i'll NOT go that route. :)

but, in order for it the price to be reasonable, they require a production run. i have already asked how many units that boils down to, and will post that number when i get it.

i am not a vendor, so i will NOT put together a group buy. but, i can email the people interested with the contact info of the manufacturer and they can purchase it personally.

if someone else is a vendor and would like to put together a group buy, i can forward you all of my correspondence and you can continue on with the good fight. :)