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View Full Version : Differences between 5th and 6th gens



KM
07-29-2010, 11:21 PM
It's kind of a generic questions, but what issues would I run into between swaps.

Right now, I have a 4age20v in a 92 ST. If I do end up keeping it, I need to find a new chassis, so it's either another 5th gen ST or maybe a 6th Gen.
There are too many quirks in my car for me to be happy with it. The drivers side headlight doesn't go down because the motor was completely rusted out. After I hit that deer a few months ago, the passenger side headlight housing was pushed back a little and snags the hood if I let it go down, so it's unplugged. There is rust in the floorboards, and underneath a lot of the car.

Understandably, the easiest thing to do is swap everything I've got into 92/93 shell, but I'd like to weigh my options.

I really like the 6th gen hatchbacks, and the STs do come with a lot more options. I'd be looking for a 94/95 for ODB1.

I'm selling the Nissan and helping a guy in my apartment complex sell his Prelude. $500 for the Nissan, and whatever's over $2200 for the Prelude (KBB is $3000). This would fund my project... $500-1300 for a new chassis and MegaSquirt + Blacktop electronics if I can afford it.

I'm just asking because I like the way ST205s look more than 185s, and any body mods would be GT4-esque.

And if I went with a 6th gen, I'd most likely send my harness off to Tweak.

90CelicaST
07-30-2010, 12:35 AM
If you send your harnesses to Dr Tweak, and the ST you get has the engine mounts, there's nothing else that is different between the two. Also, Megasquirt + blacktop electronics is kind of redundant unless you just mean the MAP and AIT sensors for the MS to read.

Is there something specific you are worried about?

KM
07-30-2010, 04:02 AM
I've been keeping on the lookout for a 6th gen ST with a blown headgasket or some other thing that would leave the block in tact, just incase I decide to use the 7a block.

I haven't even been in a 6th gen, which is kind of weird, but I dig their body style when some things are changed... I've seen a different style headlight that I really like, I like the hatchback compared to the 5th gen (which I do not like), and the ST205 hood/bumper combo looks a million times better in my opinion.
I like how streamlined the interior looks, and I'd be more willing to go with black leather seats and a CarPC.

I like my celica, but I've owned nothing but 5th gens (I don't like 2nd, 3rd, or 4ths), and the styling of 6th gens has grown on me.

What is the difference in suspensions between the generations? Better yet, will I have a set of ground control coilovers to install or sell?

Grot
07-30-2010, 05:28 AM
Nothing really to add but you probably saw a curren. That's prob the different headlights.

KM
07-30-2010, 06:07 AM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/stef97/BEAMS/IMG_5865.jpg
These headlights, the JDM projectors. It makes the 6th gen look less bug-eyed, which was the reason I did not like it in the first place. Yes, something that simple made me not like it.

I'd be happy with something like presure2. :D

I do believe getting a 6th gen is reasonable, if I don't just give up and get a 5th.
If I got a 6th gen, I'd have all of my parts (hood, suspension, partout) to sell, and the chassis would be salvaged, so I'd get some money there, too.
If I got a 5th gen, I'd remove everything I could, then have a bunch of totes in my garage full of Celica parts. haha

Grot
07-30-2010, 06:16 AM
Those projectors look badass I've never seen those before. And that's a really well done 6th gen.

KM
07-30-2010, 08:08 AM
Any car presure2 touches is golden. He did the paint, has a thread on it.
And that's the gist of my 6th gen love.

If someone ends up buying the celica, I'm turboing the miata.
If nobody buys it, I'm finding a new shell.

METDeath
07-30-2010, 02:38 PM
Find out what the spring rates are on the GCs. If you part out the 5th gen that is.

T-spoon
07-31-2010, 07:49 AM
I say go for it, but I'm a 6g fan (my 94 was a real trooper for me, then my wife, then my brother in law.. actually sad my wife isn't still driving it instead). Interior is nice, if you like the exterior styling then nothing really to lose with a newer chassis. Performance wise an st coupe would make your best swap platform due to the lower weight and higher rigidity, but that only matters if you're really trying to squeeze everything you can out of it.

KM
07-31-2010, 08:10 AM
My goal is, if I can find one, to get a liftback.
Then I'll tear down the 7a that's in it and build the bottom end as strong as I can, with custom pistons. Then mate it to my 20v. Then get rid of the AFM, 'cause that thing is broken anyway, and won't turn on my fuel pump. Then get some velocity stacks. And a turbo if I can.

Coupe 6th gens are ugly, and that's all I can seem to find. I've seen liftbacks, but none that are in my price range. I'm not paying $2000-5000 for a damn chassis.

If that doesn't work out, I've got a miata to fall back on, which would honestly be cheaper.

KM
07-31-2010, 08:10 AM
My goal is, if I can find one, to get a liftback.
Then I'll tear down the 7a that's in it and build the bottom end as strong as I can, with custom rods and pistons, and try to figure out something about the apparently weak crank. Then mate it to my 20v. Then get rid of the AFM, 'cause that thing is broken anyway, and won't turn on my fuel pump. Then get some velocity stacks. And a turbo if I can.

Coupe 6th gens are ugly, and that's all I can seem to find. I've seen liftbacks, but none that are in my price range. I'm not paying $2000-5000 for a damn chassis.

If that doesn't work out, I've got a miata to fall back on, which would honestly be cheaper.

Johnny
07-31-2010, 09:07 AM
coupes are not ugly sir im offended!

KM
07-31-2010, 10:14 AM
coupes are not ugly sir im offended!

It's all a matter of opinion. haha

In mine:
5th gen coupe = gorgeous
5th gen liftback = ugly
6th gen coupe = ugly
6th gen liftback = gorgeous

I'm not a big fan of ST185s, but I like the idea of 4wd turbo.

METDeath
07-31-2010, 01:37 PM
My goal is, if I can find one, to get a liftback.
Then I'll tear down the 7a that's in it and build the bottom end as strong as I can, with custom rods and pistons, and try to figure out something about the apparently weak crank. Then mate it to my 20v. Then get rid of the AFM, 'cause that thing is broken anyway, and won't turn on my fuel pump. Then get some velocity stacks. And a turbo if I can.

Coupe 6th gens are ugly, and that's all I can seem to find. I've seen liftbacks, but none that are in my price range. I'm not paying $2000-5000 for a damn chassis.

If that doesn't work out, I've got a miata to fall back on, which would honestly be cheaper.

You know velocity stacks and turbo cancel the other one out, yeah?

grayscale
07-31-2010, 03:37 PM
1. 6g cupholder sucks worse than the 5g.
2. 6g lateral control arms are not a problem like the 5g.
3. Going from coupe to lb I doubt your GCs will work, but do check the weight first.
4. +1 for black being an interior color option on teh 6g.
5. Junkyard parts for a 6g are much harder to come by.
6. Shifter placement in the 6g is much better.
7. Seats are mounted higher and not as comfy in the 6g, IMO.

T-spoon
07-31-2010, 05:18 PM
1. 6g cupholder sucks worse than the 5g.
2. 6g lateral control arms are not a problem like the 5g.
3. Going from coupe to lb I doubt your GCs will work, but do check the weight first.
4. +1 for black being an interior color option on teh 6g.
5. Junkyard parts for a 6g are much harder to come by.
6. Shifter placement in the 6g is much better.
7. Seats are mounted higher and not as comfy in the 6g, IMO.

Huh, I actually preferred the 6g cupholder (and 4g for that matter). I found it easier to shift being careful of my elbow than trying not to ram my knuckles into the cup.. but then, my arms aren't super huge and I rarely actually rest my arm on the armrest, so maybe it's different for bigger guys.

The seats.. interesting.. I'd never really noticed that. My 5g was definitely comfier seat wise (I still liked the rest of the 6g interior more), but it's not necessarily a fair comparison between an alltrac and a 6g GT. I've not driven a 5g GT/ST to make a fair judgment on that so you may very well be right.

KM
07-31-2010, 06:04 PM
You know velocity stacks and turbo cancel the other one out, yeah?

Nope. I'll just be sticking with velocity stacks, then. :P


1. 6g cupholder sucks worse than the 5g.
2. 6g lateral control arms are not a problem like the 5g.
3. Going from coupe to lb I doubt your GCs will work, but do check the weight first.
4. +1 for black being an interior color option on teh 6g.
5. Junkyard parts for a 6g are much harder to come by.
6. Shifter placement in the 6g is much better.
7. Seats are mounted higher and not as comfy in the 6g, IMO.

Re1: 5g cupholder never fails at getting soda on my stereo.
Re3: I doubt any parts will be compatible, but that would help me build it up if I don't sell the celica as a whole.
Re4: As long as I don't have a blue or red interior, I'm game.

90CelicaST
07-31-2010, 07:06 PM
You know velocity stacks and turbo cancel the other one out, yeah?

Well, kinda. If you mean OMGHUEG ones like Coomer had on his yellow 6gc, then yeah it'd be pointless. But, in general velocity stacks are well suited for turbo applications. http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48559

klapa
07-31-2010, 07:55 PM
At least for me - 6thG is the ugliest Celica ever made.

5th gen being the most beautiful by a mile, followed by 4th Gen, with a very close third for the 7th Gen.

6th Gen is a mule in horse's harness - or actually more like a horse in a mule's harness..

Of course the "old saying" always applies - "opinions are like assholes - everybody has one - and they all stink".

Except for mine, of course.

Still - IMHO - I think somebody hit the 6th Gen with an "ugly stick".

KM
07-31-2010, 08:39 PM
Talked to one of my miata turbo friends. He's planning velocity stacks, and runs high boost.

And 6th gens are ugly when they're stock.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic28356_1.gif
^ This is not.

METDeath
07-31-2010, 11:03 PM
I see the problem, I hear "velocity stacks" and I think "individual throttle body-esque"

90CelicaST
07-31-2010, 11:59 PM
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/5/3/7/post-1-1215826858.jpg

It happens. It's not as bad as all of the people I hear wanting to "run ITBs" on their silvertop, when they mean they want to run open stacks(no afm or plenum).

KM
08-01-2010, 02:09 AM
http://www.6gc.net/forums/uploads/monthly_07_2008/post-1-1215826858.jpg

It happens. It's not as bad as all of the people I hear wanting to "run ITBs" on their silvertop, when they mean they want to run open stacks(no afm or plenum).

6gc doesn't allow hotlinking, apparently. That's where a chunk of our bandwidth goes.

90CelicaST
08-01-2010, 03:56 AM
Fixed. Your ToyotaNation image is blocked as well (Presure2 has a copy of his sig saved here too).

KM
08-01-2010, 05:13 AM
Those stacks are outrageously long.

I'll find out tomorrow or so if I'm staying with the Celicas.
9:45, I get a call from a guy wanting to buy it for his son. He asked me a million questions... most of them were about the legality of engine swaps, emissions, and insurance rates. Said they'll come by tomorrow.

Spent a good two hours cleaning detailing it. I still have to vacuum the carpet though.

I'll be sad seeing it go, until I remember I'm buying this with the money:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/3/4/9/turbo_kit_3.jpg

MCcelica
08-01-2010, 06:05 AM
KM. those projectors are wicked freaken expensive. They're JDM and set for RHD applications. If you want them and want them to be street legal... you can get 'em brand new for around $7-800. But then you'll have to pull them apart to swap the projectors to be legal for a LHD application. They do look sick though (I have them on my 6gc). I got mine for $300 for the set of 4, but that's because the mounting tabs were broken on one of them (Nothing $2.50 worth of L brackets and screws couldn't fix).

As far as interior goes. I like the cupholders better on the 6gc. They are just as unuseable as on the 5th gen because they're so tiny a 20oz coke bottle won't fit. BUT, if you have a decent stereo, you don't have to worry about spilling your lemonade all over the face of your deck (and arguably into your control panel) every time you hit 3rd gear. But that cupholder is one cause to one of the 6gcs interior pitfalls. The center console likes to break at the hinges, and having the cupholder on that certainly doesn't help. For seat comfiness, my order of preference (Based on daily driving experience) it goes 7gc, 5gc, 6gc #'s 1,2, and 3 respectively. But if you get a nice supporting seat cover (with extra lumbar support pad), you can kind of compensate for that.

I have GC coilovers on my 6gc. Mine is a coupe (your 5g is a coupe too right?) If so, those should be fine to swap over. I don't think there's that much difference off the top of my head. (Not as familiar with the AT platform as ST. And even as such, I never got into suspension work on my ST184 before it was totalled) Hope that gives you some info.

Grot
08-01-2010, 06:07 AM
That engine bay is beautiful.

KM
08-01-2010, 06:25 AM
We'll find out what the deal is with me owning a celica. I just want something new. This is my 2nd 5th gen as a daily driver.

I have a $300 miata that I haven't had money to spend to get it running, but all it needs is timing covers and some brackets. And the v-mount intercooler system with the turbo I'll buy after I sell the celica... well, not bad for under $2000 total. Maybe even closer to $1500 if I can talk the guy down that much.

Car_Barn_Bandit
08-02-2010, 08:17 PM
The JDM projector style headlights are the only way I can look at a 6th Gen. The spider fascia, cheaper feeling interior design, and Camry styled taillights always made me disregard the 6th gen Celica.

Black interior is a bonus. The GT4 is the way to go.

Eric Barrera
10-06-2010, 12:33 AM
I just got the carpet off a 6th gen and it fit snug into my 5th gen.

I honestly like 6th gens, but only the lift backs, coupes look nasty