PDA

View Full Version : 2zz Vs. 20v



Grot
06-13-2010, 01:46 AM
Ive had this idea in my head for a little while. Thinking about a project. nothing soon, just an idea.

Which engine is the "better" engine.

2zzge vs 20v blacktop vs 20v silvertop

Will stay N/A Will get i/h/e. But probably not much more.

Will be mated to a 2zz 6spd (c56?).

Will be in a 5th gen ST platform.

Opinions? Basically wanting a corner carver. Coilovers and poly bushings, but still need it DD-able.

Colossus20v
06-13-2010, 02:47 AM
for simplicity I would say swap a 2zzge. As much fun as the blacktop and silvertop are I think you would reach your goal easier with a 2zzge.

Grot
06-13-2010, 03:04 AM
This is exactally what I'm looking for. I know you had a 20v swap. Have you ever driven a 2zz? How similar are the powerbands?

Colossus20v
06-13-2010, 03:07 AM
I've actually never driven a 2zz. So in all honesty I don't know. Don't get me wrong. I love the 20v, but I think for what you want to do you may want to consider just doing the 2zzge swap instead. It is a newer motor and also has more aftermarket for it.

I do miss the whining sound of the 20v though. Anything over 4k rpms was fun.

Grot
06-13-2010, 03:16 AM
How was low end torque on the 20v? Was there enough to be bearable in day to day traffic? I'm fairly certian I can source a 2zz cheaper also.

I'm hopin someone will chime in who has driven both and can give comparisons.

Colossus20v
06-13-2010, 03:22 AM
I think Vip and Andy and DonteatBugs all have driven both to be able to give an idea and a comparison of the two.

The low end in the 20v was not great. I got up very steap hills, but the motor came alive after 4k. It was kind of like driving a 4afe in the low end, then a 20v when it woke up. I loved it, but always wanted to swap a 7a bottom end, to give it more torque.

Also the transmission is a C60 for the 2zzge.

Grot
06-13-2010, 03:46 AM
Alright hopefully one of them will chime in.

And torque seems to be a problem for both motors. Most of Knoxville is flat but it's still similar to Nashville terrain wise.

And thanks for the clarification on the tranny wikipedia didn't have it listed that I saw.

Murgatroy
06-13-2010, 04:22 AM
My nuts, are they fun to swing on?

I would say 2ZZGE for the simple fact that maintenance parts would be easier to source.

The 20v is easier to find and cheaper, but you would have to special order a handful of parts if anthing went bad on it.

Grot
06-13-2010, 04:35 AM
Yes I stole the idea from you. But I had been thinking 20v rather than 2zz. The thinking between the two spawned this thread. A 6gc st would also be acceptable but I like 5th gens better.

vip09
06-13-2010, 04:49 AM
I think this video answers your questions.

Me driving my GF's bone stock MK3 MR2 -- 1ZZ-FE
Tim driving his MK1 MR2 w/ 4A-GE black top 20v w/ bolt-ons
Bugs in his bone stock 2000 GT-S 6spd--2ZZ-GE

20mph roll I believe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxzlA76YZQY



And here is my GTS racing Tim's MR2 when it had the original 4A-GE.

I started in 3rd gear, way out of my powerband. They started in 2nd gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOYdXoehy4




*edit.. Forgot to mention that I do have a complete 2ZZ-GE engine for sale ;)

Murgatroy
06-13-2010, 05:00 AM
Did Bugs let off there at the end, or was that the 'powerband' kicking it?

Grot
06-13-2010, 05:01 AM
That answers my question as of power but I love the itb sound. I guess the ultimate decision will come when the project starts.

Has anyone ever fit itbs on a 2zz?

And Murg isn't imitation the highest form of flatery?

vip09
06-13-2010, 05:09 AM
Bugs let off, the 20v simply does not compare to the 2ZZ. The 2ZZ is better in pretty much every aspect.

People have put ITB's on the 2zz, but with no so great results. There is an aftermarket intake manifold for it that makes gobs of power though. I like the 2zz sound over the ITB 20v sound.

Comparison:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=523559840233

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1791707

you will have to turn the volume way up on the 2nd one to hear

Johnny
06-13-2010, 05:37 AM
the 6speed on the 2zz is the c64 i dont think dat it can bolt onto the silvertop/blacktop
however there was a 6speed for blacktop I believe its c160 some with lsd id love to get one for my 6thgen :D

Grot
06-13-2010, 05:41 AM
The 2zz will bolt to a 4a with minor modification. So it should fit the silver/blacktop with minor modifcation as well. And the 2zz only requires 1 motor mount to be fabbed for it to drop into an A series equiped car.

Johnny
06-13-2010, 05:46 AM
The 2zz will bolt to a 4a with minor modification. So it should fit the silver/blacktop with minor modifcation as well. And the 2zz only requires 1 motor mount to be fabbed for it to drop into an A series equiped car.

how minor are these mods and can it be considered reliable though

Grot
06-13-2010, 05:57 AM
I believe only 1 bolt doesn't line up. Clarification will have to some from murg or maybe luni.

Johnny
06-13-2010, 06:05 AM
hmm i see well i guess you will also need to run a hybrid clutch but dont think it should be too much of a hastle good luck on ur project

vip09
06-13-2010, 06:52 AM
the 6speed on the 2zz is the c64 i dont think dat it can bolt onto the silvertop/blacktop


It's a C60. Not C64.

Johnny
06-13-2010, 07:34 AM
ah well thanx for clarifying that

90CelicaST
06-13-2010, 07:54 AM
the 6speed on the 2zz is the c64 i dont think dat it can bolt onto the silvertop/blacktop
however there was a 6speed for blacktop I believe its c160 some with lsd id love to get one for my 6thgen :D
The C60 won't bolt onto an A series engine, however, everything will fit into a c50/52/56 bellhousing to be able to be bolted to said silvertop/blacktop.


The 2zz will bolt to a 4a with minor modification. So it should fit the silver/blacktop with minor modifcation as well. And the 2zz only requires 1 motor mount to be fabbed for it to drop into an A series equiped car.
You can't mount 1 engine to another engine.

Unfortunately, the one hole that lines up is furthest away from the chassis, and furthest away from the block on the engine side.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4023/1001/22555500032_large.jpg
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255550/2

Hipster Lawrence
06-13-2010, 01:46 PM
Ok here's the deal a 2zz is a very expensive motor. It's true that the 2zz is a much better motor than the 20v. BUT the cost is why I went with the 20v.


I did my complete swap with custom harness, modified ST tranny to move the starter to the intake side, custom downpipe, ITB velocity stacks etc for just under 1500 bucks. I could've don a BT for not alot more You couldn't even buy a 2zz for that.

As far as maintenance parts for the 20v, so far it's not been much of an issue. Between pass racing and Aaron at lithia toyota of springfield everything is pretty available. The biggest issue is gaskets, you need to buy a whole gasket set ($250.) to get any gaskets. That said mine doesn't leak anything.

Smaay
06-13-2010, 05:28 PM
this thread hurts to read. this is worse than the threads on installing a 3S-GTE in a 7th gen. for one, mounts have to be fabbed up. that will cost $$$ the 2ZZ is expensive. isnt the 20V a direct drop in on the ST platform? thats a good start right there.

yes the 2ZZ is a fantastic engine, it has a way superior head design, but it lacks in low end torque. then there is the wiring issue. the 2ZZ is 2 generations later, you will need serious wiring mods.

T-spoon
06-13-2010, 05:50 PM
Boy it took a while for that 20v to start really pulling on the 1zz... just sayin....

Hipster Lawrence
06-13-2010, 10:34 PM
this thread hurts to read. this is worse than the threads on installing a 3S-GTE in a 7th gen. for one, mounts have to be fabbed up. that will cost $$$ the 2ZZ is expensive. isnt the 20V a direct drop in on the ST platform? thats a good start right there.

yes the 2ZZ is a fantastic engine, it has a way superior head design, but it lacks in low end torque. then there is the wiring issue. the 2ZZ is 2 generations later, you will need serious wiring mods.

The 2zz requires almost no modification to bolt into a 4a chassis. The chassis shouldn't have to be modified at all. Just the mount bracket or something.

Wiring is a non issue when we have guys like Tweak and MR220v around.

If I were doing an ST I would go 16v 4agze. Not much more than a silvertop same HP more torque.

But if I were doing an FF celica I would get a gt instead of an st and go beams graytop.


Boy it took a while for that 20v to start really pulling on the 1zz... just sayin....

The mk1 is carrying about 500 more pounds than the mk3.

Grot
06-13-2010, 11:22 PM
Beams graytop is a thought in a gt coupe. But i I think I'd rather run an a series engine in all honesty. And the ITB symphony is a great side effect too.

EDIT: Why greytop over blacktop? Already setup for FF? price?

Hipster Lawrence
06-14-2010, 12:15 AM
The BT is a rwd setup. The graytop is as good as anything else and cheap since it comes out of a caldina.

Grot
06-14-2010, 12:16 AM
And the caldina is already FF right?

Hipster Lawrence
06-14-2010, 01:16 AM
yes.

85gtsblackman
06-14-2010, 04:30 AM
ive debated this somewhere down the line if i keep my 6th gen

but theres the writeup of swapping a 1mzfe

so my down the road delemma was

2zzge
or
1mzfe
or
7age, using a mk1 4a head
or
7agte, same as stated before but with a snail
or
7afte, engine would either need rebuilding or replacing, im pretty sure if i turbo this thing id go boom

so far the 2zzge and the zmzfe are the front runners but with the main 2 issues that come to mind are

2zz is powerfull and rev happy
but no low end and doesnt seem to take as much abuse as older toyota motors. IM HELL ON AN ENGINE. this is why i buy old toyotas

1mzfe has torque, makes 20 more hp than the 2zz
but less aftermarket and is all aluminum

engine will be harder to work on due to its a transverse v6

or

sell car and use money to buy a tacoma with a 2rz or 3rz, or use said sold car towards a subaru

or

sell car and use money to install a 1uzfe into something, mk3 supra would be nice

T-spoon
06-14-2010, 07:01 AM
ive debated this somewhere down the line if i keep my 6th gen

but theres the writeup of swapping a 1mzfe

so my down the road delemma was

2zzge
or
1mzfe
or
7age, using a mk1 4a head
or
7agte, same as stated before but with a snail
or
7afte, engine would either need rebuilding or replacing, im pretty sure if i turbo this thing id go boom

so far the 2zzge and the zmzfe are the front runners but with the main 2 issues that come to mind are

2zz is powerfull and rev happy
but no low end and doesnt seem to take as much abuse as older toyota motors. IM HELL ON AN ENGINE. this is why i buy old toyotas

1mzfe has torque, makes 20 more hp than the 2zz
but less aftermarket and is all aluminum

engine will be harder to work on due to its a transverse v6

or

sell car and use money to buy a tacoma with a 2rz or 3rz, or use said sold car towards a subaru

or

sell car and use money to install a 1uzfe into something, mk3 supra would be nice

Good story, bro!


The mk1 is carrying about 500 more pounds than the mk3.

Pfff, only relevant if the power/weight ratio is mentioned since clearly the 20v has a power advantage. Fact remains, the 20v didn't pull hard on the 1zz and I'm wondering if it would have been playing catchup for a while if that was a race from a standstill. Anyway, that's all really beside the point, was just noting with my comment that the discrepancy between the 2zz and 20v was FAR greater than between the 20v and 1zz in that vid.

vip09
06-14-2010, 09:07 AM
Joe, I see >8000rpms every day and I've never had an issue besides when I miss-shiifted and went to like 11k rpms. I have 140k miles right now. It takes a beating.

pinoyGT4
06-14-2010, 04:46 PM
i just asked this question to my mechanic here..
he specializes with toyotas and specifically, 20Vs.. :D

anyways.. from what he said, unlike the 20v, you can only do so much to the 2zz...
ive never driven or been a 2zz.. so maybe i'd still go with a 20v BT.. or an ST with BT box.. :D

Grot
06-14-2010, 05:18 PM
Ok, so unless i win the lottery, the 2zz is out.

Whats the difference between the BT and ST?

I know ST has higher compression and a few more ponies, but anything other than that?

And im liking that the BT has a 6spd option.

Will and manifolds have to be sourced or is it already setup for FF?

Mafix
06-14-2010, 05:28 PM
hmmm.
1.6 vs 1.8
20v vs VVTli
80's motor vs 2000
then the part availability

i'm not seeing a good reason to go 20v. but i'd go 20v personally. with itbs. and much more. just not in a heavy ass celica.

Grot
06-14-2010, 05:33 PM
hmmm.
1.6 vs 1.8
20v vs VVTli
80's motor vs 2000
then the part availability

i'm not seeing a good reason to go 20v. but i'd go 20v personally.

Your reasoning is BRILLIANT!

Id rather have it in an AE86, but i can source an AT180 alot cheaper.
You can find a nice Celica for 1500-2000, in that same price range for a Rolla your loooking at a ragged out piece of shit.

And of course it will have itbs

90CelicaST
06-14-2010, 06:22 PM
Ok, so unless i win the lottery, the 2zz is out.

Whats the difference between the BT and ST?

I know ST has higher compression and a few more ponies, but anything other than that?

And im liking that the BT has a 6spd option.

Will and manifolds have to be sourced or is it already setup for FF?
You have it backwards. The blacktop has .5 more points of compression, and is rated at 5hp over the silvertop. The heads are designed differently(mainly the squish areas, or something), the blacktop has lighter(some say weaker) rods and larger diameter throttle/intake runners. Blacktop also runs off an AIT/MAP setup rather than the silvertop's AFM.

v8killer
06-14-2010, 06:30 PM
lol to get the power the same the cost will be higher on the 20v and the silver top is weaker so no on that.

you would be the first to have a 2zz in a 5th gen and ITB's on that engine will be like 30whp once tuned but it will cost as much as an other 2zz

Hipster Lawrence
06-14-2010, 06:40 PM
hmmm.
1.6 vs 1.8
20v vs VVTli
80's motor vs 2000
then the part availability

i'm not seeing a good reason to go 20v. but i'd go 20v personally. with itbs. and much more. just not in a heavy ass celica.


the 20v has vvt just no variable lift.

the 20vs are 90's motors, it's true that the general design is from the early 80s but have you seen the inside of a 2zz? strikingly close to a 4age.

Not only that look at toyotas track record lately. They just don't build the same quality as they used to. Toyotas are cheap throw away cars now. I'm with joe give me an older toyota over a new one any day.

v8killer
06-14-2010, 07:21 PM
here it is from my point of view:

turbo > n/a
3sge: greytop<redtop<blacktop
4age: silvertop<blacktop
n/a-t is a very very good option for toyotas as the "ge" labled engines have better flowing heads
as for n/a in the same car 3sge>2zzge>4age
dual vvt-i(blacktop 3sge) > vvtl-i > 20v

the redtop regardless of parts availability is the best option for the price and reward when built right.

the 2zzge is a picky engine but still is a very good engine to rev it high you need a good oil pump and the rest is the same as any engine build, turbo or n/a

imo for the at180 cost vs reward vs fun factor 2zzge

cost vs reward only 3sgte/3sge n/a-t

cost only..... hm. 4age blacktop

Grot
06-14-2010, 09:04 PM
This is just more a feeler for a project ive been thinking of.

If i was going to do something with an S series block its going in my 162.

I think a greytop BEAMS would be an excellent choice to go in my GTS. Along with a 6spd of course.

Mafix
06-14-2010, 09:15 PM
next car i build will be another 4th gen gts with a 3sge. and it'll rev to 11500. that's the plan. that's about what i stand at the moment.

Grot
06-14-2010, 09:17 PM
Which Gen 3s? And completely Forged internals? Upgraded cooling and oil system?

v8killer
06-14-2010, 09:23 PM
graytop? ah ok lol

my next engine will be another hybrid with a redtop head this time, unless the redtop has the same cast iron block as the 3sgte. the bottom end will be just like my current plans just no overbore.

black top ,mafix, black top! make brackets for fwd!

Hipster Lawrence
06-14-2010, 10:44 PM
My ae86 will have a beams blacktop one day...

v8killer
06-15-2010, 01:44 AM
i can get you one for 4600 with trans in a brand new crate!

pinoyGT4
06-15-2010, 09:07 AM
toyota have yet to create an N/A engine to beat the mighty 4age...

have you read about the hasselgren 4age? damn... talk about revving to the moon!

85gtsblackman
06-15-2010, 11:04 AM
pssst grot, why dont u fix ya gts instead of buying a 5th gen

Grot
06-15-2010, 03:01 PM
I still plan to. This is just something I've been thinkin about and wanted to see what people thought. Now I'm just waitin to find some place to swap the engine out and my gts should be good to go.

v8killer
06-15-2010, 07:34 PM
toyota have yet to create an N/A engine to beat the mighty 4age...

have you read about the hasselgren 4age? damn... talk about revving to the moon!

dude the stock blacktop 3sge the power and better tech. of a honda k20 since what 1998? enough said boosted or n/a that is one of the best engines i have seen so far

vip09
06-15-2010, 07:47 PM
toyota have yet to create an N/A engine to beat the mighty 4age...

have you read about the hasselgren 4age? damn... talk about revving to the moon!

I don't see anyone rolling around with 215whp 4A-GE's. The 2ZZ is where it's at between the 4A and 2ZZ

v8killer
06-15-2010, 08:35 PM
my buddy's scooter hits 40,000rpm.... rpm does not always equal high hp

Mafix
06-16-2010, 12:02 AM
you can use a black top in FWD it needs to be drysumped. and that not quite where i was going with my dream n/a motor. gen 1 everything pretty much. math wise it'll pump 240 or so hp. plenty enough if i can get the car around 2100 lbs.
basically:
itbs
efi
300+ duration cams and assorted valvetrain to match
polishing hell
10.5 - 12.5 compression (undecided until i finish the alltrac i'm working on)
dry sump

now ideally this will allow me to raise the engine and trans about 4 inches in the engine bay which will give the stupid aggressive suspension much better geometry (yes i said raise). i also may kick the engine back another 10 degrees as well. the possibilities are endless, my budget isn't (wife wants kids!). and more to the point i'll be making a time attack car. nemesis is fun but turning under hard throttle is asking for destruction. if i can manage to use the s53 trans and not detonate axles i'll be in good shape with this and i can see the 2100 lb goal much easier. going to spend tons on fiberglass and lexan (or equiv). also planning on much larger wheels and brakes then nemesis, and tucking it all under the factory body lines (hard part).
anyhow, didn't mean to thread jack!

Grot
06-16-2010, 01:10 AM
No Mafix i like others insight.

Does anyone make an ITB setup for the 3s? This could be something to look into.

It would drop low end torque on a stock 3s though since you would in turn have to drop TVIS (I assume)

pinoyGT4
06-16-2010, 02:00 AM
dude the stock blacktop 3sge the power and better tech. of a honda k20 since what 1998? enough said boosted or n/a that is one of the best engines i have seen so far
well im only speaking in terms of 4age and 1.6L.. those are already in a completely different platform :).. so maybe i didnt make it clear.. LOL i should've said 1.6L range.. :)

I don't see anyone rolling around with 215whp 4A-GE's. The 2ZZ is where it's at between the 4A and 2ZZ
yeah it wont be easy to DD an engine like that.. im just saying how extreme you can tune the 4age.. :D



anyway...
if its only for DD and some spirited driving and little track runs.. i'd also go with a 2zz.. its newer.. etc etc etc....

if its gonna be a track warrior.. then full race 4age will be my bet.. :D

$0.02

v8killer
06-16-2010, 06:45 AM
my buddy just got his but the harness was partially sliced :(

Mafix
06-16-2010, 03:45 PM
i can get anything for a gen 1. itb's carb setup around 1500, fi around 2K

Hipster Lawrence
06-16-2010, 06:05 PM
toyota have yet to create an N/A engine to beat the mighty 4age...

have you read about the hasselgren 4age? damn... talk about revving to the moon!


This may be true. While the 2zz is capable of more power than a comparable stroked 4a it will NEVER be as reliable. You can beat a 4age to death for years and years and it will come back wanting more. You can't do that with the fragile little 2zz. The a series motors are probably the best engine toyota ever built after the r and s series. Almost every zz series engine sucks the 1zz can't keep oil in the crankcase and the 2zz break all the time.

As far as the formula atlantic engine, totally different animal. It's a full race engine probably idles somewhere arund 4000 rpm dry sump oiling itbs giant lift cams etc etc.

They are dinosaurs anyway Formula Atlantic doesn't even run the 4age anymore, They have switched to some cosworth built engine IIRC.

Grot
06-16-2010, 06:13 PM
2k for itbs? is that tuned? are the power gains even worth it?

Mafix
06-16-2010, 09:58 PM
not tuned. can't do that without running them on the motor. they are by no means cheap unless you want to sacrifice performance/reliability.
think of it this way:
1 3" throttle body 300
1 complete intake manifold 1200 (not the ats)
so 1500 for 1 throttle body
2000 for 4 throttle bodies doesn't sound so bad now does it?

Grot
06-16-2010, 10:07 PM
Not when you put it that way. but it doesnt seem worth it on a 20 year old street car.

Are the power gains worth the money?

pinoyGT4
06-17-2010, 01:43 AM
No Mafix i like others insight.

Does anyone make an ITB setup for the 3s? This could be something to look into.

It would drop low end torque on a stock 3s though since you would in turn have to drop TVIS (I assume)

i think i saw a pic of a race car celica with a 3sge with ITB.. :thinking:

85gtsblackman
06-17-2010, 12:18 PM
Joe, I see >8000rpms every day and I've never had an issue besides when I miss-shiifted and went to like 11k rpms. I have 140k miles right now. It takes a beating.



didnt your engine already frag at least once, and so did lunis

my beater sees 6500 rpm bout everyday cause it has no torque but, its on the original 206,600 mile engine that wasnt ever take care of till i go it and it still be beat to snot.

worse thing its doing so far is using 1 quart of 20w50 every 1500 miles

oh and its been opps shifted a few times

old toyota>new hondaish stuff in terms of reliability.

but the sad part is all the newer cars all seam to have the same or similar feel to them

if you want power and torque get a 3s or a 1mz or 3mz with vvtli yes its been done in a celica.

i keep telling you guys a fwd v6 celica is the best of both worlds, reliability and power. plus its cheap to aquire parts for.

i still want to see a beams vs a v6 swap

Mafix
06-17-2010, 02:24 PM
that said i know a guy selling his v6 swap.

vip09
06-17-2010, 06:17 PM
didnt your engine already frag at least once, and so did lunis

my beater sees 6500 rpm bout everyday cause it has no torque but, its on the original 206,600 mile engine that wasnt ever take care of till i go it and it still be beat to snot.

worse thing its doing so far is using 1 quart of 20w50 every 1500 miles

oh and its been opps shifted a few times

old toyota>new hondaish stuff in terms of reliability.

but the sad part is all the newer cars all seam to have the same or similar feel to them

if you want power and torque get a 3s or a 1mz or 3mz with vvtli yes its been done in a celica.

i keep telling you guys a fwd v6 celica is the best of both worlds, reliability and power. plus its cheap to aquire parts for.

i still want to see a beams vs a v6 swap


Joe, I get a little tired of telling you this over and over. The 2ZZ engines don't just "frag" themselves. If your 22R revved to 12000 RPMs it would break too.

Nuff said.

Idiot Stick
06-17-2010, 07:25 PM
Joe, I get a little tired of telling you this over and over. The 2ZZ engines don't just "frag" themselves. If your 22R revved to 12000 RPMs it would break too.

Nuff said.


This.

donteatbugs
06-17-2010, 10:09 PM
the 2zz is a better platform for n/a than the 4age. period. you can do the valvetrain mods and get a cnc oil pump gear and rev to 12k in the 2zz....

pinoyGT4
06-18-2010, 02:16 AM
i'd give props to the 2zz.. i saw it kick ass once before in best motoring..

but i'd give it a few more years and more tech before it can really be ripe and go head to head with its competitors..

the 4age is a legend.. it didnt take a week or a month before all technology brought it to where it is now and why still it dominates 1.6L platforms even with its age..

$.02

Colossus20v
06-18-2010, 09:58 PM
I've been trying to figure out how to reply to this thread for a few days now.

I've said this a bunch of times. The 20v is a great engine and is a blast to drive. I did not find it difficult to drive around as a daily driver and get around through Pittsburgh, PA or Nashville, TN. It was not the most torquey of engines, but for a 1.6L engine it was fine. Definitely night and day vs the 4afe that came with the ST.

I've stated my thoughts on this project. I would probably swap the 2zzge just based on the fact that it is newer and easier to source parts for. Changing motor mounts is not a big deal as we've seen it done a numerous amount of times for the people swapping a 3s into their AT180s or 6th gen STs. So changing mounts for a 2zz would not be much different.

Grot, either way you decide to go is going to take some time and money to swap both them both. I loved my 20v but I always wanted to make a 7age 20v then turbo it. That was always my goal when I did my swap. I just never got to do the second phase of my project. For what you describe, you would be fine with either engine. My old car and I enjoyed the Dragon very much and the 20v did not see anything below 4k on the Dragon. It held up fine on those hills. Now I didnt get to travel the skyway at all, but that was fine.

Maybe KM will chime in with his opinion of the 20v.

pinoyGT4
06-19-2010, 05:06 AM
I loved my 20v but I always wanted to make a 7age 20v then turbo it.

i have a friend with a 7agte in an ST202.. :biggthumpup:

it kicks ass but was a bitch to tune perfectly.. :thinking:

ill take pics of it when i chance upon it in the garage.. :biggthumpup:

85gtsblackman
06-19-2010, 07:08 AM
Joe, I get a little tired of telling you this over and over. The 2ZZ engines don't just "frag" themselves. If your 22R revved to 12000 RPMs it would break too.

Nuff said.

you'll be ight

btw the 22r would still run, id just have a hole in the block

the 2zz would be ok as a daily but i wouldnt want one as a dedicated race engine. thats how i feel.

plus i like low end torque

i kinda feel the zz series engines should have had a little more R&D before it came out and then it would have been almost the best of both worlds, old school type toyota durability, new school type honda v tech high end pull but with more ass kicking.

Hipster Lawrence
06-19-2010, 10:53 PM
the 2zz is a better platform for n/a than the 4age. period. you can do the valvetrain mods and get a cnc oil pump gear and rev to 12k in the 2zz....

The honda k20 is better than both of them for NA but that's neither here nor there.

vip09
06-22-2010, 07:22 AM
The honda k20 is better than both of them for NA but that's neither here nor there.

doh, the caveman played the K20 trump card! :p

/thread

Cavanagh
06-22-2010, 12:43 PM
Can we end thread on being as ricer as Fast and the Furious?

pinoyGT4
06-23-2010, 10:22 AM
IBTL

v8killer
06-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Dude I just saw a vid of the Atlantic 4age in a ae86 and it blew in less than 2 laps at button willow

The k engines don't trump anything the 3age in the altezza kicks it's ass all day or night and I hate the fact that they are so talked up it makes me sick. I have smoked countless hatchbacks with souped up k20a engines f**k those Honda pieces of sh** !!!!!

donteatbugs
06-23-2010, 12:51 PM
my buddy has a k20/24 in a ek hatch...its fast with slicks but not as much on the street. plus no a/c and no heat ftl!

Hipster Lawrence
06-23-2010, 02:04 PM
Well FWD is fail. Has nothing to do with the engine.


Dude I just saw a vid of the Atlantic 4age in a ae86 and it blew in less than 2 laps at button willow
Race engines love to break.


k engines don't trump anything the 3age in the altezza kicks it's ass all day or night and I hate the fact that they are so talked up it makes me sick. I have smoked countless hatchbacks with souped up k20a engines f**k those Honda pieces of sh** !!!!!

I don't know the specs of the BT beams that well and haven't driven a car with that engine. It can't be that much more powerful than the k20. What 10 hp at 8000 rpm or something like that?

The k20 in the RSX-S is an awesome engine period. You can't deny it it is just truth. It's a much better engine than the s2000 engine even though it make less power. I have driven both extensively.

pinoyGT4
06-23-2010, 04:36 PM
Race engines love to break.





true...

i've been watching the k20 battle at youtube..

the spoon k20 in the ek9 kicked arse!

but.. the fastest k20 time came from a toyota.. :thumbsdown: