PDA

View Full Version : The update on my alltrac



cms-gt4
06-10-2010, 03:24 PM
As many of you know my car has been at a paint shop for over a year. Well the deal has gone sour and I have been working hard on getting my car back. The law is already involved.
I am talking to my dad on getting a trailer and a truck to me, so I can go with the cops to get my car.

This is a draft of what I will be posting on the forums he frequents when I have the tools to get my car back. Should be in a week. I will also video this so he can't pull any bullshit on me like he did with one person.

Painter Forum complaint
:
I hate that it is coming down to this, but 96tangcobra (Leslie McCroskey) has had my car for 14 months, and I want it back. I have kept every PM, email and text message from this dealing. I always keep all communication records until a transaction is complete, in case any questions or issues arise, the documents can be referenced. I will keep this brief as I can. I joined this forum because he would not answer my calls, texts, emails or PMs on the other forum. Hopefully this warning will save you the grief of doing business with him.

I met 96tangcobra on Streetcarforums.com where some other members of the site had given him good reviews for paint, but these reviews were a couple years back. He got my car in April of 2009. I met him at "his shop" but he claimed he forgot his keys, so he would just come back later and put my car inside. So I left him my car, the list of things we agreed he would do to it, a Toyota shop manual and any of the parts he was going to have to fiberglass, and work on. I was leaving to Malaysia for all of May so I told him I don't need it before June. I thought a few months would be fine for a unrushed paint job. By mid-July he told me he was in Myrtle Beach and would be back the next week. He told me he would be back the "next week" continually through August. When he got back he claimed he had not touched it but would start working on it. I do not feel a craftsman should be rushed, so I did not push too hard at first.

He then ignored me pretty much through November when he told me he was stuck in Europe for work with Swine flu and he would contact me when he got back. I know that people get quarantined with Swine Flu, so it was believable but he quit contacting me once again. I begun to have the concern if something happened to him I need to be able to get my car back. I contacted some people I knew who have worked with him before to see if they could get me in contact with him or knew where he lived. I was able to find his GF's name who I found through facebook. She seemed to not know anything about him being sick, and that made me a bit concerned. I started pestering a bit more to get to see my car. I finally got to see it mid December. He told me to bring $600 for materials and paint. The car was supposed to have been prepped at this point. I came out there to Greenback where he keeps the car. He claimed he keeps it there so he can work on it on his free time and he would have the guys at the shop do a few things. He said the place he gets paint did not have enough to do the whole car but he had enough to the do the jams. He said the next week he would do the Jams and get the rest of the paint Monday then wrap up the car. I took pictures of the car to show its progress to my friends on the forum I frequent and for record of it being there. The fishy part of the meeting is he refused to take my check for $600. He told me he wanted cash. His reason was so none of the check went to child support. I thought that was a bit shady, but I just wanted my car back at this point and I was hoping the money would get the ball rolling so I paid him cash, that I will likely never see again.

I left him alone over Christmas and New Years even though he claimed he would wrap the car up, but it was the holidays I did not want to take him away from his family. Mid Jan I started asking for updates and would send an email, or text over the next few months till march. In March I finally got a reply. He claims he can't work on my car till it warms up but as soon as it does he will.

I gave him 2 weeks till it was in the 70s and started to ask again. He ignored all my communications till I joined this forum and the last communication was this in April.

04-27-2010, 07:05 AM


I have had no luck reaching you via phone, or email so I figured I would try here. I was hoping we could figure out a plan for wrapping my car up. Hit me up via email or whatever please so we can sort this out and get it finished.

As I have said before, When I get it done you'll be the first to know. If I need anything from you I will get ahold of you.

I sent him another email two weeks later telling him to scrap all my fiber glassing (which was just two parts) just so the project moves along. After a month of no reply I explained to him how patient I have been and this project has been going too long and if he was too busy to work on it, I wanted it back so I could find another painter. Of course there was no reply. I decide the following Monday to go to the shop where I first left my car. I went before five because I started to consider that he may have nothing to do with them. I asked them if they knew him, and his involvement with them. They knew him, but he was not associated with their shop at all. He rents a booth with them when he paints cars. They said this is not the first time he has told someone that was his shop, and this is not the first time someone got burned by getting their car painted with him. They said he was a talented painter, but he tends to take on more then he can chew and someone gets burned. Of course after learning this I was a bit frustrated. Not only about him pushing off my project, but by also lying to me. If he was a guy that worked out of his house I could still respect that as long as he does a good job. I am a small business owner and I can respect someone making it happen from home.

I then went home, and called my Brother in law who is a local police officer to find out my rights. I have the right to take my car back, and he and other officers would come out with me. So then I sent Leslie an email explaining the lies I discovered and that I am giving him once chance to make this right. He of course never replied.

I then got in contact with his now, ex girlfriend. She was ready to spill everything about him thanks to him being a jerk to her. He does not respond to her either, and they are in a custody battle. She explained that he never owned a shop, he was not sick in with swine flu, and there he has done this to at least three other people. One other also had to take him to court.

I have compiled all my texts, PMs and Emails into text documents to show the courts. This guy has issues and all business should be avoided. I know I do not have any posts here but my integrity is very important to me. If you look up references of me at alltrac.net, celicatech.com, 350zforums, my350z.com, and ebay. I have never had a bad dealing or anything unresolved as my honest reputation is very important to me.

Murgatroy
06-10-2010, 03:46 PM
Sorry to hear all of this. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

I was almost ready to believe at this point that you didn't even have an Alltrac anymore. ;)

donteatbugs
06-10-2010, 03:48 PM
Damn, I would have done been had my alltrac back. Nobody keeps my baby that long.

cms-gt4
06-10-2010, 03:58 PM
Sorry to hear all of this. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

I was almost ready to believe at this point that you didn't even have an Alltrac anymore. ;)

Thanks. I was starting to believe the same thing. Right now I am just waiting for my equipment to take the car, then I will be going to retrieve it.

Colossus20v
06-10-2010, 05:04 PM
That sucks. Reminds me of my ordeals when I got my swap done. I hate liars and if you can't do something then you shouldn't take it on. Period.

Get your car back and find another painter and get it back on the road.

Luni
06-10-2010, 05:05 PM
Sucks to hear about your car.

But this shouldnt be in off topic.

ChrisD
06-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Jeez. Well, you're doing it right at this point. Get your papers in order. Get that car. Wow that's been a long time.

09sNST165
06-16-2010, 05:52 PM
Sorry man. Thats crazy stuff!

Colossus20v
06-16-2010, 07:44 PM
Update?!?

MCcelica
06-16-2010, 09:51 PM
I would be absolutely furious. I'm actually a little pissed even just reading it. Spare no legal mercy with this one. Jack his world up man.

The Captain
06-16-2010, 10:54 PM
Damn.

vip09
06-16-2010, 11:17 PM
What a piece of shit. Hope you get everything resolved man.

pinoyGT4
06-17-2010, 01:57 AM
damn...

all this time your car was parked at his house? or wherever that is?

i sure do hope he didnt just use your car around like his own...

klapa
06-17-2010, 02:12 AM
Well, it sure sounds bad - especially that all the lawyers are involved for you to just get your car.

If it were me - I'd just get a couple of friends and pay the guy a little "Russian visit" - the hell with the law.

joe's gt
06-17-2010, 02:15 AM
Only you can determine how hard the karma train hits him. Make sure you got everything documented and then deck him. I don't know how you went without ur car for that long tho. I would have probably raised action sooner. But as long as you have all the correspondence, you're golden. Keep us updated!

T-spoon
06-17-2010, 02:38 AM
I don't know how you went without ur car for that long tho. I would have probably raised action sooner.

He has a 350z to drive too? But yeah, even so that would be rough.

cms-gt4
06-17-2010, 10:50 PM
Yeah, I am still pretty pissed about it. This is the worst time I could have found out too, because I am in a month set of summer courses so its making it harder to juggle things around. I just need to find a way to get my texts off my iphone into a word document, then I will have all my evidence compiled.

The car is at a garage at his Grandmother's house in Greenback, TN. I am still trying to get the cops in that area to talk to me. Their emails don't seem to work, and I left a message with no returned call. I will be calling them again soon. My brother in law will be back tomorrow. He is a local cop, so that will help out and I should have a truck and trailer this weekend. I will make sure to have on duty cops with me, and I will likely be video taping the repossession. From what I learned someone tried to take their car back before, and they ended up getting in trouble.

I am playing everything by the book. This guy has already screwed me enough, and I want to make sure he doesn't take any more from me.

METDeath
06-17-2010, 11:45 PM
I know on Android there are apps to back up SMS messages into a .xml file, maybe you have something similar for iPhone?

4thgenceli
06-18-2010, 01:20 AM
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Back-Up-Your-iPhone-Text-Messages-85555.shtml

Free version only does the first 100 for each contact.

MCcelica
06-18-2010, 02:02 AM
You can do what Tim put up there, or the hard way would to be to text them to yourself. Instead of putting your phone number in the "To:" field, put your email address in there. I've done it that way a few times.

cms-gt4
06-18-2010, 02:14 AM
Well I can text it but it does not include the times received and who sent what. I will try the program.

Luni
06-18-2010, 02:31 AM
Josh try using a program called DiskAid

use DiskAid to get into the phone. Then browse to the following file

/private/var/mobile/Library/SMS/sms.db

Thats where your text messages are found. Now reading them is another thing cause its a database file.

cms-gt4
06-18-2010, 02:40 AM
I am going to try diskaid and this database reader. I'll report back later.
http://menoob.com/iphone/how-to-save-and-read-your-iphone-text-messages-on-your-computer/

cms-gt4
06-18-2010, 09:27 PM
Likely won't get my car this weekend. I will be meeting with the police Monday, to file a report. Criminal investigations closes at 5pm.

Shadowlife25
06-19-2010, 02:41 AM
God luck Josh, I've been following this. Hope you get everything back and the d-bag gets locked up.

alzeem88
06-19-2010, 04:45 AM
nice to hear, good luck..

cms-gt4
06-22-2010, 11:16 PM
I finally got my text messages exported. I had to get a program since most other means requires a jail broken phone. I plan on going down to the police tomorrow after school.

BTW: After reading though the communications I found it was $650 not 600 that I paid him already.

cms-gt4
06-24-2010, 10:54 PM
Went to the police today. Google maps iphone app kept me on the wrong path. Took me an hour to find the country police station. I met with one officer, and told him my story. I mentioned the girl who he screwed over and he even knew the outcome of that case. Apparently the painter could not get charges pressed against her. So it was nice to know it worked out for her, but it made me mad to verify he is a cheat. I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt.

They said since it happened in city, to go to the city police. I went there and luckily the head of criminal investigations was the person to greet me. I told him the situation, and he read through my emails. I brought all printed communications with me. At first I was nervous, cause he seemed to know the guy, and he was sort of dead pan. I guess cause he had been working all day. So he tried to call him, and no answer. Then he called the DA asking for advice. He also asked the DA for the painters phone number. I was afraid they might be friends with him and I might not get help. Well as it turns out, the DA had him paint his truck, and the painter screwed him around as well. So the guy is on their shit list now.

As of right now, what I have to do is contact him, and tell him I am coming to get the car. If he refuses, then they can consider the car stolen, and then take it back. Hopefully he has enough sense to give it back to me.

cms-gt4
06-25-2010, 03:34 AM
Well I verified I still have AAA till the end of the month. I did as the police said. I sent him an email telling him I am coming to get the car Monday or Tuesday and for him to make himself available. If he refuses, then I will be pressing charges for theft.

He finally replied.


I am coming to get my car Monday or Tuesday after two. Which day will you be available?
I want all the parts, bolts, the shop manual, my key, my wheel lug keys, the lip parts, bolts, the paint I paid for, and all the other stuff I left there. I prefer to do this in one trip, so it will go smoother if you collect everything together so we don't have to dig for it. I will have a flat bed tow truck and a pickup truck for carrying everything.

We tried to call you from the police station but you would not pick up, as usual.
I am sending this message here and via email, so I know you get it.


I have no problem letting you get your car. It would however be in your best interest for you to leave that attitude at home though. Just saying... And yes Jonathon called me later and asked if it was o.k. for you to get your car and I said I had no problem with that since I don't have the time to work on it right now. You'll have to get it on wed. though as I am leaving tommorrow and won't be back in town till late tue. Everything will be ready to go just let me know exactly what time your gonna be there. See you then..


If I did not have to go to the police to get you to respond I would have less attitude, however I will be civil when I get my stuff as I want this to go smooth since this has all caused me more grief than I need. I have no desire to worsen things than they already are. I will contact my tow truck people and I will get back with you on the time for Wednesday.

UtahSleeper
06-25-2010, 04:26 AM
Glad this situation is about over. Should take a load off your chest.

cms-gt4
06-30-2010, 02:22 PM
Today is the day I go get my car. Wish me luck.

BabyBear
06-30-2010, 03:40 PM
Good luck man! Hope you get it back without issues.

MCcelica
06-30-2010, 04:23 PM
Fuck him. I would have told him "I said monday or tuesday. If you can't be here to get it one of those two days you're in the fuckin clink for GTA." and if he didn't turn up on tuesday, I'd fuckin charge 'em for it. I'm sure the DA wouldn't have any qualms with that either. Course I'm a dick tho. But for real? Convenient timing for being "out of town" if you ask me. But ay. I really hope all goes well today. Hopefully he took you up on your advice to get everything together.

ChrisD
06-30-2010, 05:33 PM
Really truly wishing you the best of luck today.

Luni
06-30-2010, 05:44 PM
Let us know how it goes

Sean
06-30-2010, 05:51 PM
Have captain fly me out there, I'm pissed.

cms-gt4
06-30-2010, 06:01 PM
Plans of changed. He can not meet me now till later, so I told him to put it off till Saturday, My finals are due Friday, and it is already taking too much time for me to get them done. For my own sanity, the car will have to wait till this weekend. I will give a full report once its back.

BabyBear
06-30-2010, 06:45 PM
Sounds like he is still trying to run you in circles. I'm starting to really agree with MCcelica on this. Fuck him, if he can't meet you when he agreed, call it in as stolen. Don't work around his schedule, make him work around yours.

Luni
06-30-2010, 06:52 PM
Yeah for sure dude.

What BS. Id give him one more chance to meet your schedule, then report it as stolen. You can clearly prove ownership.

cms-gt4
06-30-2010, 10:23 PM
I was sort of OK with me pushing this back till Saturday, He was wanting till tomorrow, but I said saturday since I have two finals due friday and barely enough time to get them done. The plan is Sunday at 4. My Brother in Law (police) is on board and I will have another officer there as well. If he tries to push this off, then I will report it stolen. He has had more than enough time. Thanks for the support guys.

BabyBear
06-30-2010, 10:37 PM
If he'd have told me that he wanted till tomorrow I would have told him to stuff it and that I was going to show up as planned. If he wasn't ok, report it as stolen.

I don't like being walked on, and it kind of sounds like that is what he is doing to you.

cms-gt4
07-04-2010, 01:17 AM
I got my car and I am pretty pissed off.
I wasn't pissed when I went there. I was pissed once I got to go through my car and see the mess it was in and that he did not give me everything. I took the local police and my brother in law to go get it.
I sent Leslie a text that I am coming out and he told me he would be at the lake and the car is out front. I told him I was coming Saturday on Wednesday after he canceled on me so there was well enough an advanced notice. I got the car, but of course there are things not in it. I had to spend about 3 hours on the phone with AAA to get my car and we get out there and he is not there.
There are some fiberglass bits that he was supposed to had worked on that were not in the car, my $100 workshop manual for the car was not there and the paint I paid for was not there. I sent him an email saying I want the rest of my stuff, but I think I am likely going to have to take him to court.

He had the car since April of 2009. I saw the car in December.
Here is the car now finally getting it back in July of 2010.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2538/p1030005s.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3513/p1030009u.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5433/p1030012o.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9881/p1030015j.jpg


Here are pics from back in December 2009 when he said he was going to start wrapping it up.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2065/p1020743oh.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5660/p1020741.jpg

As you can see from my experience, I would not suggest any one deal with him.
I am a bit stressed now, and have a horrible headache, as well as a permeation snear on my face so sorry if my post isn't too clear. I don't even know where to start on the car right now. I guess I am going to finish my finals, then go from there.

Colossus20v
07-04-2010, 07:03 AM
damn. That is the only word that came to me after seeing your pics. Sorry you have to deal with this, but at least you got your car back.

:(

ChrisD
07-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Wow. Wow.

Do not let it rest. I would suggest going back immediately, with your brother/other police if possible, and get the rest of your stuff. Just make sure he is home. Don't let it rest.

But yeah, happy you at very least got your vehicle back.

pintoBC_3sgte
07-04-2010, 04:27 PM
Wow. Wow.

Do not let it rest. I would suggest going back immediately, with your brother/other police if possible, and get the rest of your stuff. Just make sure he is home. Don't let it rest.

But yeah, happy you at very least got your vehicle back.

i agree.. after that douche having ur car for that long and it not getting done, not to mention all the greif and running around he gave you.. you better get everything of yours back.

lol its not even my car and im pissed :p

burnyd
07-04-2010, 06:19 PM
wow terrible story I feel really bad, I dont understand though I would have killed this guy, if the car was at his grandma's I would have brought ricksta and had him rape the guys grandma.

Your taking this way too well.

cms-gt4
07-05-2010, 07:14 PM
My latest communications. I am not entirely sure how to handle this. He got $650 of my money, and you saw what my car looks like after over a years of work from him. Maybe I should just count my losses, and just not get the paint even though it does not seem right. I guess I will just get advice from the detective I spoke with before.


I wish you were there because I went through the car and I can not find my fiberglass parts I left, my Toyota manual and the paint I paid for. How do I get the rest of my items.


I think the manual is still in my woody and I remember the splitters are on the counter. The paint I will be keeping as you did not pay for any labor. So that will be a wash. I will gather the manual and splitters and get them to you.

Luni
07-05-2010, 07:25 PM
Dude, if you paid for paint from him and you can prove you paid him for paint, he should give you the paint.

The guy sounds like a fucking douchebag and deserves have shit go down on him for this.

cms-gt4
07-05-2010, 07:29 PM
The only proof I have is a few text messages and an email. I called the police, but the Criminal Investigations is off till Wednesday, which blows my mind that they have such an open schedule. Must be a low crime area or something.

Waffles!
07-05-2010, 09:52 PM
if you paid for paint from him and you can prove you paid him for paint, he should give you the paint.

Exactly. He did no labor on the car, and you paid for supplies. The paint belongs to you, unless you had agreed otherwise.

klapa
07-05-2010, 10:43 PM
Yea - test messages should be enough if he answered them - plus proff of giving him money f you have it.

I agree with BurneyD - as I said awhile back in this post - you should get a couple of friends to pay the guy a "Russian visit" - that'll learn 'em - and even if you didn't get your money back - at least you'd have a little blood for some "closure".

You could at least feel a bit better when you passed him - limping - on the street.

I'm sorry to be so "old school" here - maybe I have a misunderstanding?

celica9303
07-06-2010, 01:27 AM
Exactly. He did no labor on the car, and you paid for supplies. The paint belongs to you, unless you had agreed otherwise.

Exactly, paint and labor are two totally differnt things, paint is suplies and well labor is phycily putting the paint on the car, which he did not do. If you paid him anything the paint is yours. And id get the other parts immediatley and take him to court anyways.....

klapa
07-06-2010, 02:03 AM
Still say - the guy is a slime bag - nothing like a little blood to change his "tone".

Still - you have all the receipts - so no probs, eh?

Me - I'm different when it comes to stuff like that - comes a time when receipts on paper just don't fly any longer - time for other types of receipts that are more "indelible" than just plain paper.

Just me though - and I am a relic.

Luni
07-07-2010, 04:39 AM
He IS a relic!

david in germany
07-07-2010, 08:57 AM
Take his ass to Judge Judy.. Nothing like public embarasement!

BabyBear
07-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Take his ass to Judge Judy.. Nothing like public embarasement!

+1

cms-gt4
07-07-2010, 10:17 PM
Just got off the phone with Sartin from the police department. He said the paint would be a civil matter and I would have to take him to court. Right now I just want my parts back, so I can move on. I told him to drop them off with Sartin and then he will call me when I can come get them.

cms-gt4
08-02-2010, 06:50 PM
So I talked to the police today. They advised me to file a Civil Warrant against him. If I do this, he will be paying court costs and more. I sent him a last message with my threat. He can either turn over the parts now or go to court. So we will see what happens. I don't want to go to court, but I will if he won't get to it.

cms-gt4
08-03-2010, 02:20 PM
He is finally replying now that I posted in his for sale thread that I am taking him to court.

So here is his latest replies.
Some are from PMs I sent a while ago.


So I posted in his for sale thread and sent him a PM'em him and here are his responses from PMs. Some I sent a while ago. He is already making threats.



Only thing I came up with was the splitters. All the rest of the stuff was in the car as you accepted it upon pickup. I will get them to jonathon when my schedule allows. I work from MY schedule, NOT yours.. If Anything else arises then feel free to contact me and I can take care of the matter with you in person.

Thanks, Les


I went through all the parts again, and I do have the door plastic lock. It was jammed under the seat.

This is the updated list.

• Green Toyota tech manual.
• Fiberglass splitters.
• Key socket to lug nuts.
• Center hood vent.

I need this stuff to Sartin by Monday.




So I talked to the police today. Since you continue to ignore me, I have been advised to file a Civil Warrant against you. You can either get my parts to Sartin ASAP, or I will see you in court.

Well, I see you posted a threat in the parts for sale section of this forum. What you have done is libel and quite frankly, Very stupid on your part. You will be dealt with accordingly.. So, That being said. File your warrant. I will be more than happy to see you in court or anywhere else as far as thats concerned. I will bring your bill for the labor with me and you can go ahead and cough that up as well genius.

BTW, If you would like to deal with me personally, I dont care one bit to stop by your work and deal with you there. I may make a stop by there tommorrow as I have to be up that way anyways so Its not like its out of my way and I'm sure we can get this handled rather quickly.

Thanks, Les



You can do whatever you wish. I have been out of town and just got back to look for them.I have not found any of the parts you are talking about except the splitters. All the parts I had in my possession were in your vehicle as you accepted it at the time of pickup except the splitters and I have those on the table at the shop. I DONT work around your schedule so you'll get those when I get a chance to take them by there. So, That being said. If you want these pieces I have then I can drop them off sometime this week. If not, Go ahead and file your warrant. I honestly could care less either way it goes as you still owe more in labor than these pieces are worth anyway so judge russell can decide who owes what.. You'll have to face me at some point anyway and I personally would prefer sooner than later..

Thanks, Les

P.S. I'm not ignoring you genius. I have no missed calls from your number. Now if your calling from a private number then you should know by now that I do not answer those calls. If you want to, I can meet with you so that you may pick them up from me personally. Hope to See you soon..


So I talked to the police today. Since you continue to ignore me, I have been advised to file a Civil Warrant against you. You can either get my parts to Sartin ASAP, or I will see you in court.

ChrisD
08-03-2010, 04:49 PM
Ugh, crappy crappy crappy.

andy
08-03-2010, 05:24 PM
this guy is a tool

cms-gt4
08-03-2010, 06:23 PM
Latest communications. I do not think the guy can be reason with, I am just going to have to take him to court.


So as I was sending him a civil message requesting my parts and that this will all be over he sends this:


No, It wasn't.. Fact, I've never had to see a judge for anyones car. You lied there.. I did not ignore you. I have no reason to. Just because I was on a forum does not indicate I checked any messages. At any one time, I have 30-40 in my inbox that have NOT been checked. And FYI The only car the police were EVER involved in was due to another prick like you that thinks a full restoration should only take a month or so. I have a full-time job and a life outside of what I CHOOSE to do for fun. Working for people like you who constantly pester is NOT fun. Therefore I do not do work for. Like I said, Take your warrant out. Judge Russell can decide how much you still owe for 15 months of labor. I told you what parts I have and you can have those. The rest were IN your car as you accepted it. Only thing I have said you CANNOT have is the paint. Due to the fact that you paid for zero labor for the entire length of the project. And I have provided no scare tactics, Only facts..

Thanks, Les


There is nothing libel about me posting what I posted. It is all indeed fact. You have ignored me, and would not return my parts. This forums shows that you have read the PMs, but until I posted that you would not respond. You have only given me two phone numbers. One is now turned off and the other is never answered. I even have the email I sent you asking for one that works. Sending texts, emails and PMs are apparently not a way to get in contact with you. Maybe when you take someone's stuff you should provide an actual way of being able to contact you. Of course I know you get these contacts, you just ignore them.

Say what you will, but I have already been advised by both police departments, Your scare tactics are nothing to me. All you had to do is drop off my stuff to the police dept. which is just down the street from your work and this all would have never happened. Then again, if you had not lied to me for 15 months and drug my car out, this would have not come to this either. I know your no stranger to the judge because this is not even the first time the police have been involved with you and someone's car.



So I talked to the police today. Since you continue to ignore me, I have been advised to file a Civil Warrant against you. You can either get my parts to Sartin ASAP, or I will see you in court.

Well, I see you posted a threat in the parts for sale section of this forum. What you have done is libel and quite frankly, Very stupid on your part. You will be dealt with accordingly.. So, That being said. File your warrant. I will be more than happy to see you in court or anywhere else as far as thats concerned. I will bring your bill for the labor with me and you can go ahead and cough that up as well genius.

BTW, If you would like to deal with me personally, I dont care one bit to stop by your work and deal with you there. I may make a stop by there tommorrow as I have to be up that way anyways so Its not like its out of my way and I'm sure we can get this handled rather quickly.

Thanks, Les


It's not in there, After some thought, I used it in removeing some panels so it had to also be in the car.


My book is in the back of your woody as you said before.


Only thing I came up with was the splitters. All the rest of the stuff was in the car as you accepted it upon pickup. I will get them to jonathon when my schedule allows. I work from MY schedule, NOT yours.. If Anything else arises then feel free to contact me and I can take care of the matter with you in person.

Thanks, Les


I went through all the parts again, and I do have the door plastic lock. It was jammed under the seat.

This is the updated list.

• Green Toyota tech manual.
• Fiberglass splitters.
• Key socket to lug nuts.
• Center hood vent.

I need this stuff to Sartin by Monday.

Waffles!
08-03-2010, 07:04 PM
I can't wait to hear the what the judge says.

He says you owe him money for 15 months of labor? Wish I could manage to charge some one that much for doing nothing.

Smaay
08-03-2010, 08:25 PM
Dang what a story, im sorry you are going through that

FluffyNutts
08-03-2010, 11:51 PM
I got popcorn ready.... and then......

klapa
08-05-2010, 01:45 AM
I got popcorn ready.... and then......

"And then...."

I would call in the Russian's - cuz I know - I married one (Ukrainian) and have been there in both Russia, Ukraine, and the community of such here in the USA..... and seen that same "justice" practiced right here in the old USA.

They know how to get "justice" - and it is much faster than the courts. You could have "closure" for much less money than paying lawyers.

This is called "immediate justice" - and it works - believe me, it works.

It's the best way to handle a slime-bag like that.

Take your choice - be a victim - or take command of the situation.

T-spoon
08-05-2010, 03:37 AM
"And then...."

I would call in the Russian's - cuz I know - I married one (Ukrainian) and have been there in both Russia, Ukraine, and the community of such here in the USA..... and seen that same "justice" practiced right here in the old USA.

They know how to get "justice" - and it is much faster than the courts. You could have "closure" for much less money than paying lawyers.

This is called "immediate justice" - and it works - believe me, it works.

It's the best way to handle a slime-bag like that.

Take your choice - be a victim - or take command of the situation.

Dude, no offense, but you keep saying this and I have to say, it does NOT work. Using violence to solve something like this is a terrible idea. Finding out where people live is so easy these days. Do you want to walk around all the time worrying about your house? Your cars? Your family? I don't (hell, I worry enough already without having people wanting revenge on me)! That's why violence is a last resort for me and I defuse everything verbally if at all possible. You have to think of the consequences of things.

Yeah, that means you have to suck it up and be a victim sometimes, and oh believe me I know that sucks, but I'm willing to be a victim to the extent that I don't cause an even greater amount of harm to me and mine. Sometimes there's no option but violence to defend yourself or your loved ones or property, but beating on someone for being a jackass and having shady business dealings is just asking for monumental amounts of pointless trouble, not to mention the fact that you could go to jail for it.

I don't mean to thread derail here, but I just feel that this is really bad advice to keep giving him.

cms-gt4
08-05-2010, 03:38 PM
I only use violence for defense. I can not attack people. Its not in my nature.

klapa
08-06-2010, 12:45 AM
OK - sorry - but you treat a scum-bag like a scum-bag and what goes around comes around.

I did not mean to say "use violence" - only the technique of face-to-face intimidation by a bunch of big MF's just paying a little "friendly reminder visit".

Such can work wonders to "cut through the red tape' with no liability whatsoever - and is surprisingly cheap.

Just a suggestion - but that is what I would do in such a situation - though I am the type that "lives by the feud and dies by the feud".

klapa
08-06-2010, 03:01 AM
I will add here - the only people that "win" from court cases are lawyers - ans the stealing scum-bags that mis-represent themselves are never really "called out" for justice.

You won't get anything with any court suit because you will bnot be able to really prove anything - any way you look at it - whatever you get back will be wiped out by the lawyer fee's.

As I said above - I would reiterate here - there is nothing like "personal contact" to convince somebody to "do the right thing - or else". You let their own mind decipher the "innuendo" of "what else" - as such is never specified directly - only indirectly by the "herald".

In my own experience - this is what works - else the charlatan will be about his games on the next victim - using your cash to do it.

Violence? - NO! "Friendly Persuasion"? - by all means, "make it so".

I did say I might sort of an "anachronism" - yet I don't understand what all this crap about "violence" is? Violence IS a part of human life - and I've had my lip busted more than once - but never over cars - only over women. You've got to watch out for people in Texas and Alabama - that's my main experience in that area.

I don't know about Canada - perhaps everybody there goes to an "encounter group" when they have a "conflict"?

Me - if I get cheated - I GET EVEN - whether I get my money back or not - I WILL get my "pound of flesh" by whatever means, or I will die still trying.

As I said - "live by the feud - die by the feud" - never let yourself be cheated without seeking retribution from the perpetrator.

celica9303
08-06-2010, 06:02 AM
All he has to do to win in court is show the pics of the car before he had it. And after. That will show that nothing was done labor wise besdies him tearing everything apart and shoving it in the car a few hours before you got there. case closed. Josh wins good luck

T-spoon
08-06-2010, 07:36 AM
I will add here - the only people that "win" from court cases are lawyers - ans the stealing scum-bags that mis-represent themselves are never really "called out" for justice.

You won't get anything with any court suit because you will bnot be able to really prove anything - any way you look at it - whatever you get back will be wiped out by the lawyer fee's.

As I said above - I would reiterate here - there is nothing like "personal contact" to convince somebody to "do the right thing - or else". You let their own mind decipher the "innuendo" of "what else" - as such is never specified directly - only indirectly by the "herald".

In my own experience - this is what works - else the charlatan will be about his games on the next victim - using your cash to do it.

Violence? - NO! "Friendly Persuasion"? - by all means, "make it so".

I did say I might sort of an "anachronism" - yet I don't understand what all this crap about "violence" is? Violence IS a part of human life - and I've had my lip busted more than once - but never over cars - only over women. You've got to watch out for people in Texas and Alabama - that's my main experience in that area.

I don't know about Canada - perhaps everybody there goes to an "encounter group" when they have a "conflict"?

Me - if I get cheated - I GET EVEN - whether I get my money back or not - I WILL get my "pound of flesh" by whatever means, or I will die still trying.

As I said - "live by the feud - die by the feud" - never let yourself be cheated without seeking retribution from the perpetrator.

Bollocks. As long as the threat of violence is on the table, the other party isn't going to hear a word you say. You'd be amazed how effective actual communication can be which is precisely why this jerk doesn't want to talk to the OP but rather ignore him. But whatever, this is really off topic at this point. The OP has a good head of his own on his shoulders so we need not debate this here.

Good luck getting this sorted out, cms-gt4!

klapa
08-07-2010, 03:14 AM
Bollocks. As long as the threat of violence is on the table, the other party isn't going to hear a word you say. You'd be amazed how effective actual communication can be which is precisely why this jerk doesn't want to talk to the OP but rather ignore him. But whatever, this is really off topic at this point. The OP has a good head of his own on his shoulders so we need not debate this here.

Good luck getting this sorted out, cms-gt4!

OK - agreed - and I retire from this thread - only to say having some "dis-interested third party" who has a very LARGE frame meet this person "accidentally" on the street and to whisper a few sentences might go a long way for a small dollar to solve the problem.

I suppose all will be solved in a "kind and gentle" way. This is the "way of the new-millennium". Myself - I'm a relic of the "old millennium" - when people were called out for their transgressions and made to pay right out on the street in the "here and now".

Don't worry - I'll be dead soon enough - and you will all be safe with "Judge Judy" handling all the problems.

Yet - for me - I handle problems like this my own lonesome self - and woe to the poor fool that attempts to screw me over! It's one thing to make a bad deal that didn't make financial sense - but quite another to make a deal that is not fulfilled by the other side, as agreed.

Still - keeping in mind - I would not exactly "hand over" my entire car to somebody without some up-front agreement in writing as to what the work list and time frame is either.

So perhaps our "victim" here is partly a victim because he did not actually work out the scope of the project to begin with - especially in written form - and to specify some sort of schedule - as well as who buys what supplies.

and T-Spoon - the threat of violence is ALWAYS on the table - that is life in the human condition - there is no changing that till the second-coming.

T-spoon
08-07-2010, 03:27 AM
Yeah, you still don't get it. It is foolish to resort to force when you aren't capable of resolving the situation with it. This has nothing to do with being old school, it has to do with being able to determine where and when to employ what tools. My "old school" teachings were that you don't pull a gun out unless you intend to pull the trigger and kill. It's always a gamble to think you've intimidated someone enough not to retaliate. I think you could stand to give the issue a little more thought yourself, regardless of the relevance to this thread. Is violence part of the human condition? Sure, but so is the ability to reason.

Murgatroy
08-07-2010, 03:34 AM
The gig though is Spoonman, back in the day, for those that still adhere to the oldschool mentality, when you whoop my ass, or I whoop your ass, it is over. There is no drive-by, tire slashing, house burning or other stupid shit.

I grew up that way. And while I might not agree with Klapa's solution, I fully understand it, and have utilized it in the past, when I was a different person.

klapa
08-07-2010, 03:58 AM
Is violence part of the human condition? Sure, but so is the ability to reason.

There is NO "reasoning" with a thief to make them resolve a deal equitably - only viable threats to compel them to do such.

As I said - I will bow out here - because I am a veteran of many a political forum and I am here to talk about cars.

I am sorry I got off topic.

I will leave here with the maxim - "live by the feud - and die by the feud".

What that means is that you don't "cross" people - unless you are ready for problems - and possibly "violence".

If you don't practice that - you are letting folks walk over you.

T-spoon
08-07-2010, 04:36 AM
The gig though is Spoonman, back in the day, for those that still adhere to the oldschool mentality, when you whoop my ass, or I whoop your ass, it is over. There is no drive-by, tire slashing, house burning or other stupid shit.

I grew up that way. And while I might not agree with Klapa's solution, I fully understand it, and have utilized it in the past, when I was a different person.

Rarely in the history of mankind has it ever really worked that way in more than a superficial manner. It's not as if I don't know what you guys are talking about, I just think there's more nostalgia going on than rationale. I'm not some peace-sign waving tree-huggin hippie ya know :hehe:

Quakefire
08-07-2010, 07:31 AM
I have no idea what the law is like in the USA, but I would recommend taking pictures of the car from before you dropped it off and how it currently looks to a few reputable body shops and have them provide quotes for how much time it would take to get a car to that stage. Then if he comes into the court room demanding 50 hours of labour you have something to counter with.

Good luck. Take him for all you can get

Facime
08-18-2010, 08:17 PM
Good read, tough situation.
Klapa - violence begets violence. Its pretty obvious from the communications posted here that the person in question is not "old school" and responds accordingly. Can intimidation work? sure, but not on a guy like this. He's a worm. I promise you, threatening that guy will only bring about MORE trouble. Is it worth it? the risk vs. reward? over a car?
T-Spoon - You are on the right track but I will also say that some people can NOT be reasoned with. No amount of talk is going to make the painter see the OP's side of the story and get him to capitulate. Hes already in defense mode and making threats of his own, like a cornered animal.

I see two options for the end of this story:
1. You file a civil suit, you document the crap out the whole story and present it to a judge. You may not win anything monetarily, but you will probably find some justice that way. If you go that route, as was already suggested, you need to get estimates that can help prove your damages. This can NOT include anything that makes your car improved over its previous condition, but I think you will find that at shop rate, just putting the car back in one peice would offset any claims he made about his "labor". After you win the suit you use it to smear the guys name everywhere he frequents. This will help offset any monetary losses and replace it with a shitload of satisfaction. Hit him where it really hurts (sorry Klapa, I dont mean his face ;) ), in his wallet. If he has any sense of decency at all, which I doubt, he might learn a valuable lesson that screwing people over for a living is a shitty way to live.

2. You walk away. You chalk this all up to experience and you get out with what you can salvage. The only way this works imho is if you can resolve in your mind that people like him get what is coming to them eventually, and it doesnt need to be you that teaches them this. You also have to be able to take some responsibility for not checking the guy out thoroughly enough beforehand and for letting it come to this point. Lesson learned, right? You dont hand over your keys and car to some guy out in front of a business he doesnt have access to...!

Ive done both of these things, and both have benefits and disadvantages. Only you can know whats right for you. Good luck, I sure hope you find satisfaction.

cms-gt4
08-23-2010, 04:13 PM
Alright, I finally got the last of my parts back. He became a bit more compliant after I contacted his ex for his address for where to send the warrant. I have a feeling they talked and he realized I was serious about taking his ass to court, and that I had a lot of evidence against him. He lost my bgb, so I will just have to eat that. But now I can move on and get this car finished. I have been already talking to new painters. It will cost me a bit more than I had budgeted, but at least it will be done right. I was willing to take him to court and nail his ass, but at this point its not worth investing more time and stress in this douche, when I can be using this time and energy to progress my future.

Luni
08-23-2010, 04:55 PM
Did you get your paint?

cms-gt4
08-23-2010, 05:02 PM
No. There was likely never any paint to begin with.

Facime
08-24-2010, 03:28 AM
I think you did the right thing. Life is too short to waste time on asshats and scammers. Time to move forward to the phase of getting your car done and back to a state where you can enjoy it.

cms-gt4
08-24-2010, 03:33 AM
Thanks. I hope to have lots of good progress in the near future.

domafari
08-24-2010, 12:37 PM
Its baffeling how easy that can happen. Hard to know who to trust anymore I guess. Glad it slowly worked itself out for you