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View Full Version : Tempted to ditch the FMIC idea..



4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 03:42 AM
And stick with the TMIC with the 215.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/celiman89/101_1076.jpg


Just set it on there, and I'm really liking how it's looking with that TMIC.

I set the hood on, and the hood was hitting the intake manifold & turbo pressure sensor just a bit. My father inlaw has a buddy at his work that will take the hood and make a cowl induction thingy that lifts the whole center of the hood up.

http://righchus.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/2011-mustang.jpg

Nitro_Alltrac
06-06-2010, 03:48 AM
The cowl hood would look good.

If you did that and kept the top mount, what's the plan for getting air throught the top mount. Just wondering.

joe's gt
06-06-2010, 03:50 AM
Tim, have you ever driven a car with an ATA TMIC right above the valve cover and exhaust manifold? It causes your IATs to skyrocket. In Arizona your ecu is most likely going to do nothing but retard timing and limit boost the majority of the time. Do WTA at least if your not going to go FMIC.

4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 04:02 AM
Tim, have you ever driven a car with an ATA TMIC right above the valve cover and exhaust manifold? It causes your IATs to skyrocket. In Arizona your ecu is most likely going to do nothing but retard timing and limit boost the majority of the time. Do WTA at least if your not going to go FMIC.
I've never driven a boosted car at all. The heat soak was the reason why I was going with a FMIC, but since I need to modify the hood already I figured I'd just put this in there as well.


The cowl hood would look good.

If you did that and kept the top mount, what's the plan for getting air throught the top mount. Just wondering.

I'd put a GT4/st205 scoop on.

The reason this crossed my mind is when I laid the hood on the car, it was hitting on the intake manifold just a bit and the turbo pressure sensor. I'm not sure if it's the design of the engine, or if the passanger side of the engine is still up too high.

Luni
06-06-2010, 04:14 AM
Tim dont be dumb. It wont work well. Just go FMIC.

Cavanagh
06-06-2010, 04:16 AM
MMMMMMM....Heatsoak, i can only imagine how epic it would be in AZ.

4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 04:18 AM
Well it looks cool!!

Still have to do that shit on the hood so it clears the intake manifold. Thinking it's gonna be just like that mustang cowl, like an inch or so gradual increase.

Hookecho
06-06-2010, 04:52 AM
i'm keeping my TMIC too Tim. so don't feel stupid. when i make the change it will be WTA. i like the idea of keeping the shortest distance possible from the turbo to throttle body with the charge air.

Tecker184
06-06-2010, 05:56 AM
I run my A2A top mount don't have any trouble with it. I only really experienced heat soak on 90 degree day with 90% humidity. Most of the time its warm to the touch. I also do not like all that piping and want the shortest distance from turbo to intake manifold.

4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 06:26 AM
I agree with both of you, but I'm in AZ.

I went out to my car (9pm at night), and the steering wheel and interior was still uncomfortable to the touch (steering wheel, etc).

Doing the intercooler piping & shit is very difficult to do without having the intercooler, or the piping. Looking at the room I have, I'm starting to think I may look for an intercooler now that has the inlet/outlet both on the same side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/celiman89/Untitled-13.png


Instead of doing it I guess you can say the 'standard' way (on top), I'm debating doing it as the bottom depicts.

pinoyGT4
06-06-2010, 07:19 AM
why not clock your turbo so the charge pipe will be really short.. :D

vip09
06-06-2010, 08:27 AM
The cowl idea is not going to work well with the top mount.

Go FMIC.

lalojamesliz
06-06-2010, 08:34 AM
the st215 cover looks nice but why not use a st205 A2W intercooler system? its ALMOST as hot in bakersfield as it is in arizona thats why i went with the st205 system.

Shadowlife25
06-06-2010, 09:07 AM
Something is still wrong in your engine placement if you are having issues with the intake manifold hitting.
It should all clear with no issues.
The only thing that would hit is the TMIC.

4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 09:13 AM
Something is still wrong in your engine placement if you are having issues with the intake manifold hitting.
It should all clear with no issues.
The only thing that would hit is the TMIC.
What could it be then? I'm using st165 upper trans bracket & mount, st162 front/rear motor mounts, st162 front bracket, st165 rear bracket, and st162 left side motor mount and bracket.

I've seen others state they've used their old left side motor mount bracket with no issues. The one I grabbed from the yard was from a 88 GTS with 3sge.

Shadowlife25
06-06-2010, 09:33 AM
Dunno, but if it is hitting and it was installed correctly, you'd be the first.

4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 09:37 AM
Dunno, but if it is hitting and it was installed correctly, you'd be the first.
No shit... :-\

I thought I read somewhere regarding the speed source poly bushings that they caused the engine to be raised up a bit though. Now I'm not blaming that, hell I don't think it's even the root cause because it's not the whole engine, just the 1 side.

I'm going to rip off the underhood crap and attach the hood to the hinges when I get home. Hopefully I can then see exactly what's hanging me up and deal accordingly.

Shadowlife25
06-06-2010, 09:40 AM
Definitely look into it Tim.

Pull off the TMIC for the purpose of finding your contact point.
(One less thing that you have to worry about)

post back your findings.

4thgenceli
06-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Tackling that in the morning.

FWIW.. I had the TMIC off when I initally put the hood on. I latched t in the front and laid it over the rest. The back of the hood was up about 1/2" I'd guesstimate from the bodyline.

More exact pictures/measurements to come.

P.S..

I'M LONELY IN CHAT lalz.

Luni
06-06-2010, 04:33 PM
Just curious if any of you guys who "like the shortest path possible" ever rode in a car with a FMIC? I have. Slocelis car, and his car spooled fast as hell, you couldnt tell it was an FMIC.

T-spoon
06-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Just curious if any of you guys who "like the shortest path possible" ever rode in a car with a FMIC? I have. Slocelis car, and his car spooled fast as hell, you couldnt tell it was an FMIC.

True that. Also drove a big single 93 supra with an enormous HKS front mount and it was the most responsive car I've driven, turbo or otherwise, period. If it's set up right, you just aren't going to notice the longer piping vs a top mount.

Also, my 90 alltrac with the stock ATA top mount was utter hell in Houston. Every day on the way home from work probably 8 months out of the year. Heat soaked to kingdom come and therefore total weaksauce. I could only ever have any fun with it several hours after sunset.

vip09
06-06-2010, 07:12 PM
I've had both the stock TMIC and a FMIC.. there was no difference in spool!!

TMIC
1. It heatsoaks instantly = LOSE
2. Have to remove it to work on anything = LOSE
3. You can cook some burgers and hotdogs on it = WIN

FMIC
1. It looks awesome = WIN
2. Pretty much NEVER heatsoaks = WIN
3. Install and forget, it's never in the way = WIN
4. Can't cook on it = LOSE

Tecker184
06-06-2010, 07:14 PM
Yea im going W2A im not looking for big power and i think it will be the best option for me.

ChrisD
06-07-2010, 12:52 AM
Don't do it! You'd have to have a scoop on it too.

It seems odd to me that your IM is hitting the hood. There should be plenty of clearance...hmm.

I'd stay the course and go FMIC.

4thgenceli
06-07-2010, 01:12 AM
Don't do it! You'd have to have a scoop on it too.

It seems odd to me that your IM is hitting the hood. There should be plenty of clearance...hmm.

I'd stay the course and go FMIC.
I'm an idiot..

I found tools on the passanger strut tower.

celica9303
06-07-2010, 03:59 AM
I'm an idiot..

I found tools on the passanger strut tower.

epic fail tim......

ChrisD
06-07-2010, 04:57 AM
bahaha.

Also, x2 on clocking the turbo. Why not? That saves a piping loop to deal with and cleans up the look of the engine quite a bit. I can walk you through exactly what we did on Ryan's car too. It wasn't that hard.

celica9303
06-07-2010, 04:59 AM
i dont think you can clock the 215 turbo as it is cast to the manifold......aka all one piece.

pinoyGT4
06-07-2010, 05:16 AM
bahaha.

Also, x2 on clocking the turbo. Why not? That saves a piping loop to deal with and cleans up the look of the engine quite a bit. I can walk you through exactly what we did on Ryan's car too. It wasn't that hard.
hey chris, can i avail this walkthrough too? haha!
im just waiting for my FMIC to arrive in 2 weeks or so.. :biggthumpup:

i dont think you can clock the 215 turbo as it is cast to the manifold......aka all one piece.

oh jeez i think i missed out on that one.. :thinking:

Tecker184
06-07-2010, 05:32 AM
yes you can the compressor housing can be separated via band clamp.

vip09
06-07-2010, 07:01 AM
I'm an idiot..

I found tools on the passanger strut tower.


LOL, don't worry It's happened to me before too. I found out a couple weeks later...

Blackcloud
06-07-2010, 02:22 PM
wouldn't the bottom drawing restrict airflow?

Mafix
06-07-2010, 06:10 PM
clock the turbo, use a dual pass fmic. done. don't use a ATA top mount...ever!

v8killer
06-07-2010, 09:31 PM
the shortest tract thing only works with WTA as there is less pressure drop through it. as for how it "feels" unless you race on a track you will never tell the difference or unless your on a dyno. you might be able to tell depending on if you have a good ATA going to a good WTA or WTA to ATA. i know there are lots of sites saying that one is better than the other but as i have said before in best of best setups the only advantage of ATA(fmic) is that its lighter and out of the way. the only advantage of a WTA is that it has faster response and when space is an issue you can fit the parts anywhere that get air without having to have a huge area. WTA if setup right will not heatsoak all the water as the myth goes and swithching to ATA(fmic) won't make a noticeable difference in spool time for the average guy/girl. so if going fmic clock that turbo looks better and less area the turbo has to fill.

zen
06-07-2010, 10:04 PM
lols... anyways, tmic sucks. you will heat soak so bad plus, you will need an functioning scoop in order for it to work. fmic is the way to go because of your side feed intake manifold, you cannot use the st205 WTA tmic unless you work out the piping. plus, the distance from outlet of wta tmic to the intake manifold is much to small to fit piping to throttle body and the bends you would have to use. go fmic and call it a day plus, it gives the car a "dont fawk with me, im boosted" look... lols

v8killer
06-08-2010, 09:10 PM
i forgot that it was the gen4 you can do either one not stock, pwr makes a good barrel type WTA or any FMIC. in reality most good size WTA cores are good for like 500+ even the cheaper ones. but the core is only one part of the WTA. either way its up to you.

look it all up first whatever u choose don't just stuck on one site either

Hookecho
06-09-2010, 01:15 AM
i'm thinking of building a shroud to go around my tmic. so when the hood is shut all of the air will go directly into the intercooler.

i am using my old cold air intake to scoop air from the front bumper area. the cooler air will be routed to blow out under the tmic. all i have to do is fab a small scoop to mount to the pipe in place of the air filter.

so the heatsoak i will deal with is when idling. which will be remedied as soon as i start moving.

pinoyGT4
06-09-2010, 01:51 AM
i'm thinking of building a shroud to go around my tmic. so when the hood is shut all of the air will go directly into the intercooler.

i am using my old cold air intake to scoop air from the front bumper area. the cooler air will be routed to blow out under the tmic. all i have to do is fab a small scoop to mount to the pipe in place of the air filter.

so the heatsoak i will deal with is when idling. which will be remedied as soon as i start moving.

put a slim fan on top of it.. :biggthumpup:

Hookecho
06-09-2010, 02:12 AM
i'll have to look into that.

pinoyGT4
06-09-2010, 03:53 AM
i'll have to look into that.

aryt dude.. :D

let me know what you come up with..

from what i see, you really dont like to go FMIC..
and you want to get cold air into your TMIC with ducts and stuff..

i dunno if you've read my thread, but i kinda looked into this one also..
although i have a hoodscoop and a shroud so basically, cold air will get drawn faster with a fan on top of the TMIC.. i may be wrong though... :thinking:

Hookecho
06-09-2010, 04:13 AM
i don't mind using a front mount. i would rather spend that money on a wta setup. if it becomes necessary i will go with the fmic.

Tecker184
06-09-2010, 05:47 AM
There is a local welder near me that is modifying my gen3 W2A intercooler to fit my gen4.

4thgenceli
06-09-2010, 11:43 AM
bahaha.

Also, x2 on clocking the turbo. Why not? That saves a piping loop to deal with and cleans up the look of the engine quite a bit. I can walk you through exactly what we did on Ryan's car too. It wasn't that hard.
I didn't look to closely, but I think I can still do it with the engine in the bay (I really don't want to pull it just to clock it). Are there any gaskets or shit I would need to change out when I do this?

ChrisD
06-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Should be able to as long as the rad is out. No gaskets, it's just a simple c-clip (and a little pin, which isn't overly useful). When we did it we ended up doing it with it installed anyway so that we could clock it as far as there was space. Just have to build a bracket for the wastegate actuator, which consists of a peice of metal with some holes drilled in it. :D

4thgenceli
06-09-2010, 03:53 PM
Should be able to as long as the rad is out. No gaskets, it's just a simple c-clip (and a little pin, which isn't overly useful). When we did it we ended up doing it with it installed anyway so that we could clock it as far as there was space. Just have to build a bracket for the wastegate actuator, which consists of a peice of metal with some holes drilled in it. :D
I don't recall seeing the wastegate on this turbo. Then again, I don't even know what it looks like. Hopefully I can get it clocked in 2.5hours..

4thgenceli
06-09-2010, 04:21 PM
I don't recall seeing the wastegate on this turbo. Then again, I don't even know what it looks like. Hopefully I can get it clocked in 2.5hours..
Scratch that :boostnewbie:

I see the wastegate now. Looks like udder shit though :P And I see the whole clocking thing. Hopefully it comes loose without a hitch...

pinoyGT4
06-09-2010, 04:54 PM
i envy 4thgenceli... :(
i wanna go FMIC already!!! dammit! :(

@hook: IMHO just go fmic dude.. save the headaches.. :D

4thgenceli
06-09-2010, 05:22 PM
yes you can the compressor housing can be separated via band clamp.
Actually, the oil feed/return lines prevent from clocking from where that band is. I removed the band, but realized there's no way to clock it and then have the oil feed/return on top like it would of been.

There's a big ass snap ring on the inside you remove, then the thing rotates (I had to pop it off first and then put it on where I wanted it).

4thgenceli
06-09-2010, 05:35 PM
I feel like a real idiot.

Chris, sorry but I'm copying yours & Ryan's design(s) for the wastegate and intercooler piping. I think I even copied how far you clocked the turbo :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/celiman89/DSCN3303.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/celiman89/DSCN3304.jpg

Just need to fab up the plate now for the wastegate, and get this damn snap ring back one. Gonna wait until tomorrow to buy a pair of snapring pliers (mine broke when I was taking this one off...had to use a pick & needlenose pliers).

I have pics & everything with a full EDU on clocking teh turbo in the works.

ChrisD
06-09-2010, 06:13 PM
Easy hey?!!! Don't be sorry, it's called "borrowing best practices".... :D As for how far we clocked, basically "as far as it would go without hitting something". haha. Plus, this reduces the need to have to orchestrate a 180 degree piping loop without hitting the hood.

I just used needlenose pliers. Maybe some that have a bit of an angle on them.

Now go and order a 45 degree 2" to 2.5" reducer/bend silicone hose from siliconeintakes to go right off the turbo. Then angle hose so the 1st pipe fits in the gap between the downpipe, rad, and engine mount. We used a 45 degree bend for that pipe, which lead to two 90's directly into the IC inlet.

We should be doing some stuff on Ryan's car tomorrow, so we can probably get some decent pics of the piping route then.

Also, when you are fabbing your WG actuator mount plate, you can use a bike pump or something with a vac hose to pump air into the actuator and make sure the operation is smooth. Try to find a piece of metal that is very stiff. Probably steel. AL flexes a bit too easy, we found the actuator would flex the AL when we added boost so we had to reinforce a bit extra. We might still redo that with some steel if Ryan feels like it.

4thgenceli
06-09-2010, 06:18 PM
Thanks Chris. Those pics would be mucho appreciated :P That's about as much as I can clock it, as I still need to get the hard lines for the MR2 or figure something out to get my clutch hard line to the slave cylinder.

Wouldn't the two 90* off the 45* be able to be replaced by a 180*? Or is the 180* bend too much to make that turn (considering I'm after the same intercooler & obviously now the same intercooler pipe routing lol).

ChrisD
06-09-2010, 09:17 PM
You could use a 180, but then you are committed to whatever radius the pipe is. Two 90's gave a bit more flexibility there.

Yeah we'll get some pics. :)