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manu
05-01-2010, 10:25 AM
What do you guys think about this car? I'll need a car before the fall, and right now I'm on the fence between an Impreza WRX or a 3000GT. Basically it's deciding between practicality and performance. I've heard horror stories about the 3000GT. Thinking about a 1995 M3 too, but it's RWD and I live in Nebraska. Also, parts should be expensive for a BMW. Thoughts?

Cavanagh
05-01-2010, 10:28 AM
Any why are you on a site dedicated to Celica's, nonetheless, Toyotas when you're asking about two completely different car brands?

85gtsblackman
05-01-2010, 10:46 AM
subaru

Naemion
05-01-2010, 10:51 AM
I like the looks of the 3000GT but get the WRX, just a better car in general.

MCcelica
05-01-2010, 12:40 PM
If you get the 3000GT... you'll probably want to kill yourself for it. Its a nice nice nice lookin car. But as the saying goes, you can guild a pile of s*** all you want and you still have a pile of s***.

Hookecho
05-01-2010, 02:44 PM
wrx.

Grot
05-01-2010, 02:48 PM
Id go with WRX as well.

Nitro_Alltrac
05-01-2010, 02:55 PM
Go with the WRX. I've heard a lot of horror stories about problems with the 3000. It's a great looking car though.

joe's gt
05-01-2010, 06:46 PM
WRX is a great car. But if you get one you'll also be thrown in that category with most (not all) wrx owners who require absolutely zero skill and challenge to mod them. Just like my friend, he has a hell of nice STI with ridiculous power, but has no idea how he got there. He just heard from some other guy that so and so part was good, so he just threw it on there.

If its dd, go ahead, but if its a project car that you want to stand out, don't do it.

TXcajunman
05-01-2010, 06:48 PM
wrx

celica91gts
05-01-2010, 08:56 PM
lol. i dont think anybody will vote for the 3000gt. they have no room in the engine bay so maintenance is very hard. and the car is a total lemon compared to a subie.

renegadex
05-01-2010, 09:19 PM
WRX

Okctrd
05-01-2010, 09:59 PM
wrx.

85gtsblackman
05-01-2010, 10:18 PM
04 up wrx

02-03 have a glass transmission

Galcobar
05-01-2010, 10:44 PM
If you get the 3000GT... you'll probably want to kill yourself for it. Its a nice nice nice lookin car. But as the saying goes, you can guild a pile of s*** all you want and you still have a pile of s***.

Gild* -- decorate or cover with gold.

Hipster Lawrence
05-01-2010, 11:09 PM
So you are trying to decide between a front wheel drive overweight car with a naturally asperated v6 that comes out of a family sedan and a reasonably lightweight all wheel drive turbo boxer 4 cyl powered car?

A 3000 gt is no harder to work on than anything else but it will be old and it's a general piece of shit mitsu motor and they ALL burn oil. It's also slow as crap compared to a wrx.

The WRX is one of the best compromises of handling power and practicality. I've never seen one with a broken transmission or heard of them being bad about breaking transmissions but who knows. Check nasoc on that.

These are 2 completely cars that really have nothing in common. But I'd say go with the WRX and stay far away from anything with 3 diamonds on it.

klapa
05-02-2010, 12:14 AM
Don't know about a WRX but we had a 92 Legacy - my wife's first car.

Bought it in 2002 with ~152K and it still runs - with ALL the power stuff still functioning - to this very day.

We've had to replace the passenger side front CRV joint twice - else very few probs.

cms-gt4
05-02-2010, 12:26 AM
WRX.

If you get the BMW, put a set of blizzaks tires on the stockers and get some nicer wheels for summer.

MCcelica
05-02-2010, 12:44 AM
Gild* -- decorate or cover with gold.

Thanks. Lol (starts singin "We represent the lollipop guild")

But yeah. Looks like the people have made their point. :)

manu
05-02-2010, 07:08 AM
Ok, seems unanimous...wrx it is.

Cavanagh, I own a 5th gen Celi back home, so I've been on this forum for quite awhile, and alot of people here have experience with Scoobies. Besides, going on Mitsu's and Subaru's forums, everyone praises whatever they have most of the time. Needed a fair third party, so where else to turn to but home base?

Hellbillylarry, I meant the VR4.

but I guess I really can't afford for anything to go horribly wrong. Not looking for massive power gains, just something with decent power stock.

Cavanagh
05-02-2010, 07:21 AM
Understandable. :D But, yes, WRX without a doubt.

david in germany
05-02-2010, 07:50 AM
WRX.

If you get the BMW, put a set of blizzaks tires on the stockers and get some nicer wheels for summer.


Just ordered my winter tires for the MINI yesterday.. Blizzaks of course.. $127 each not bad for some kick ass runflats!


Oh and obligatory..... WRX

The Captain
05-02-2010, 02:49 PM
3000GT
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Is a P.O.S. Buy a scoobie.

geebes
05-02-2010, 07:00 PM
Oh Jesus! Please get the Subie.

Slider
05-03-2010, 06:50 AM
+1 for the subbie


04 up wrx

02-03 have a glass transmission

My buddy blew up 2nd gear in his 04, twice lol this was with a tune, up, dp, straight pipe and catback. So if you plan on modifying it I would save some cash on the side for a transmission just in case. He had an aftermarket clutch too, so maybe that contributed to it too.

manu
05-04-2010, 12:59 AM
Okay, thanks for the unbelievably certain response. Seems like the worst thing someone can do on this forum is get a 3000GT. Thread closed, I guess.

Too bad there aren't any ST205s here, then I wouldn't even be looking at other cars. Why are the import laws so strict? You all are missing out on alot of prime JDM cars.

celicaGT90_05
05-04-2010, 01:33 AM
WRX is a great car. But if you get one you'll also be thrown in that category with most (not all) wrx owners who require absolutely zero skill and challenge to mod them. Just like my friend, he has a hell of nice STI with ridiculous power, but has no idea how he got there. He just heard from some other guy that so and so part was good, so he just threw it on there.

If its dd, go ahead, but if its a project car that you want to stand out, don't do it.

How exactly are you making a negative point by saying (in terms) he can just bitch slap around the engine and it'll haul ass? The easier, the better.

This thread also seems to be one sided to the base 3000GT, are we forgetting the VR4 model? This would very much compare to the WRX in the AWD sense, and is also twin turbo V6 powered. May just be me, but I'd be willing to bet the VR4 would be able to give a WRX a run for its money.

If it were me, I'd go with the relative to the 3000GT and get a dodge stealth R/T TT. Same platform as the VR4, but much sexier imo, I yearn for one...but they are also hard to find

joe's gt
05-04-2010, 04:18 AM
How exactly are you making a negative point by saying (in terms) he can just bitch slap around the engine and it'll haul ass? The easier, the better.

Not making a negative point, just making sure he's choosing the suby for the right reasons. He'll just be another face in the crowd with that car. It doesn't take much skill to mod a suby. I have more respect for an enthusiast with a 300hp celica vs. a 300 hp wrx any day.

As a dd, its a great car, but it is a cookie cutter. If you can feel proud of yourself for modifying a subaru knowing that everyone else is driving around in pretty much the same thing with the same mods in the same color, then good for you. The wrx also has a mixed reputation of true enthusiasts and cocky kids who don't deserve such a great piece of machinery.

It's more about respect than anything else. You see a 300hp celica and you say "Wow, that's impressive". You see a 300 hp Suby and say, "There's another kid and another wrx". Unfortunately the ease at which a subaru can be modded gives many people a false sense of accomplishment.

Dougy90
05-04-2010, 04:38 AM
im still do not think the VR4 could give a wrx a run for its money. the vr4 is a boat! or the vr4 would break down half way through the race cause its that crappy.

go for the suby...u will be happier

celica9303
05-04-2010, 04:47 AM
my vote is.....(puts flame suit on) the Dodge stealth R/T(same as 3000gt vr4) and i know of a couple in town that will give sti's a good run....without using the spray(my friend has a nx express kit on his) like stated the wrx...everyone has em and they all look the same and have the same parts on em....kind of like the evo's. stealth r/t / 3000gtvr4 no one has em and still fast as hell with right parts and tune. maintence does suck though.

Car_Barn_Bandit
05-04-2010, 04:47 AM
Suburu.

They recently partnered to bring the 40-something year olds a new toy. (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota/2010-toyota-ft-86-concept-ar80028.html)

celicaGT90_05
05-04-2010, 04:56 AM
^ yes...this has been known for quite some time. Not to sound flaming or anything.

joe - I get your point, originality would earn much more of my respect

dougy - you sound so one sided its unbelievable, have you ever worked on a mitsu or had any experience with one? They dont just fall apart at the seams

celica9303 - Glad you see it my way haha though they did have just a regular RT, an RT TT is a different model than a regular RT.

celica9303
05-04-2010, 05:03 AM
lol yes that i know but if we were talknig about the "rt" id say hes better of geting a civic. the regular 'rt" is just a heavy slow avenger/cirrus.. lol

but yeah i say steath RT TT(corrected for celicagt90_05)

goretro77
05-04-2010, 05:05 AM
In case its not clear...WRX gets the nod.

Drove a STi when I was in the market for a car, amount of mechanical grip available in that car is amazing.

celicaGT90_05
05-04-2010, 05:05 AM
lol just makin sure its understood :p

manu
05-04-2010, 05:18 AM
Just to clear things up, I definitely meant the VR4. But I'll probably be going with the Subie. Unless anyone has a better (reliable) car that can be had for that price (5-8k) with decent power. It's hard to find STis that hadn't been modded out completely, though. Or to find older STis at all.

celica9303
05-04-2010, 05:20 AM
caldina? awd TURBO TOYOTA wagon power!

Car_Barn_Bandit
05-04-2010, 05:22 AM
^ yes...this has been known for quite some time. Not to sound flaming or anything..

No worries. I read an article the other day about how Toyota has been slowly shifting their focus for this car from 20 year olds, to 30 year olds to 40 year olds. Guess it keeps going up in price thanks to complicated factory procedures.

It's a Scionic failure now.

not12listen
05-04-2010, 06:09 AM
how about neither?

the 3000GT is a heavy pile of horse manure that enjoys the feeling of understeer, much in the same manner as much guys enjoy having a cold beer in one hand while a hot chick dances naked in front of his eyes.

all subaru's (except the STi's) suffer from a less than stellar oil pump (yes, even the WRX has a wimpy oil pump), doing the timing belt on those DOHC engines is just about the most painful thing you'll do (short of saw off your own testicles with no pain killer), changing spark plugs NEARLY requires pulling the engine out, the 5MT transmissions* are pathetically built by comparison to the 6MT (only available in the STi), wheel bearings are a pretty common and expensive thing that fails... and its recommended to replace the full hub & knuckle assembly when you replace the wheel bearings. subaru has the most OMFG touchy ABS on the planet, to the point of being unreasonable and unfriendly to drive with on less than 100% dry conditions. the rear LSD is a pathetic vLSD (not certain if the STi is an upgraded [Torsen/Clutch] model or not). all Impreza's from 2002 and up, weight in at a 'lightweight' 3300lbs and up, depending on options. 93-01 impreza's tend to weight anywhere from 2600lbs (L model) upto 2900lbs (RS model).

for the 2002-2003 (Bugeye) WRX, there are 4 different FACTORY brake setups. you will not know which you have, until you call subaru and give them your VIN, which makes getting replacement brake parts quite a pain.

also, next to the Evo, its the new ricer car. oh, one other problem with all subarus from 2005 and on... they're all drive by wire!


* unlike toyota transmissions where they design one for NA and one for forced induction platforms (with strengthened internals, etc), subaru takes the 5MT from the NA Impreza, changes the gear ratios and drops it into a forced induction car WITHOUT increasing its strength. this is one reason why you will see LOTS of RS/WRX guys doing STi swaps from 06/07, because they came with the Porsche re-designed 6MT that has the center iron girdle which stopped the transmission from twisting at higher Torque power levels.


onto the good things about subaru. their chassis construction and rigidity is AWESOME! you can drop just about ANY subaru setup into nearly any other subaru (ie. 93 Impreza with a 2010 STi swap, etc). swapping out the rear sway bar is a task that you can do without lifting the car at all, and will take you about 25 minutes or so. getting to the oil filter is VERY easy! replacing the 2 accessory belts is a 15 minute task.

so, with all of that in mind, i would recommend against a WRX. its overpriced (roughly $11000 and up out here), and most of them have been driven on pretty harshly.

instead, if you're stuck on the subaru thing (in general), get a 90's Impreza Wagon. yes, it will be slow compared to the WRX/STi, but it will cost about $2000, and working inside the engine bay is about a billion times easier than with the WRX/STi, you can always upgrade to stock RS/WRX suspension bits really easily and cheaply. and if you get the itch for more power, swap in a WRX engine/transmission/driveline setup. its all pretty much bolts on without any modification - wiring is a different story. :) it'll have a ton more room for storage, and most of them come with fancy 9003 bulbs (ie. H4), instead of the complete crap 9004 bulbs that plague the 2002/2003 models. the lights on the 2004 and later are better.

not12listen
05-04-2010, 06:10 AM
not sure why, but it double posted.

if you do get an NA subaru, i would STRONGLY suggest checking to see if any EJ20/EJ25 windage tray will fit on it. all NA subaru engines come without windage trays... not a good thing. also, you MIGHT be able to get the WRX Spec C oil pump from Japan, and install it on your engine - this is the strongest and best oil pump subaru makes, and its only about $150 or so (pretty cheap compared to the aftermarket knock offs). you can also swap over the STi alternator, which helps with the interior/exterior lights - this takes about 20 minutes total, and is a direct bolt on.

oh yeah. subaru's also like to understeer. not quite as badly as the 3000GT, but still nothing too fun.

celica91gts
05-04-2010, 08:51 AM
How exactly are you making a negative point by saying (in terms) he can just bitch slap around the engine and it'll haul ass? The easier, the better.

This thread also seems to be one sided to the base 3000GT, are we forgetting the VR4 model? This would very much compare to the WRX in the AWD sense, and is also twin turbo V6 powered. May just be me, but I'd be willing to bet the VR4 would be able to give a WRX a run for its money.

If it were me, I'd go with the relative to the 3000GT and get a dodge stealth R/T TT. Same platform as the VR4, but much sexier imo, I yearn for one...but they are also hard to find

when i think 3000gt i only think vr4. but it's a tank and in the end the sti is still better, just imo

85gtsblackman
05-04-2010, 10:49 AM
how about neither?

the 3000GT is a heavy pile of horse manure that enjoys the feeling of understeer, much in the same manner as much guys enjoy having a cold beer in one hand while a hot chick dances naked in front of his eyes.

all subaru's (except the STi's) suffer from a less than stellar oil pump (yes, even the WRX has a wimpy oil pump), doing the timing belt on those DOHC engines is just about the most painful thing you'll do (short of saw off your own testicles with no pain killer), changing spark plugs NEARLY requires pulling the engine out, the 5MT transmissions* are pathetically built by comparison to the 6MT (only available in the STi), wheel bearings are a pretty common and expensive thing that fails... and its recommended to replace the full hub & knuckle assembly when you replace the wheel bearings. subaru has the most OMFG touchy ABS on the planet, to the point of being unreasonable and unfriendly to drive with on less than 100% dry conditions. the rear LSD is a pathetic vLSD (not certain if the STi is an upgraded [Torsen/Clutch] model or not). all Impreza's from 2002 and up, weight in at a 'lightweight' 3300lbs and up, depending on options. 93-01 impreza's tend to weight anywhere from 2600lbs (L model) upto 2900lbs (RS model).

for the 2002-2003 (Bugeye) WRX, there are 4 different FACTORY brake setups. you will not know which you have, until you call subaru and give them your VIN, which makes getting replacement brake parts quite a pain.

also, next to the Evo, its the new ricer car. oh, one other problem with all subarus from 2005 and on... they're all drive by wire!


* unlike toyota transmissions where they design one for NA and one for forced induction platforms (with strengthened internals, etc), subaru takes the 5MT from the NA Impreza, changes the gear ratios and drops it into a forced induction car WITHOUT increasing its strength. this is one reason why you will see LOTS of RS/WRX guys doing STi swaps from 06/07, because they came with the Porsche re-designed 6MT that has the center iron girdle which stopped the transmission from twisting at higher Torque power levels.


onto the good things about subaru. their chassis construction and rigidity is AWESOME! you can drop just about ANY subaru setup into nearly any other subaru (ie. 93 Impreza with a 2010 STi swap, etc). swapping out the rear sway bar is a task that you can do without lifting the car at all, and will take you about 25 minutes or so. getting to the oil filter is VERY easy! replacing the 2 accessory belts is a 15 minute task.

so, with all of that in mind, i would recommend against a WRX. its overpriced (roughly $11000 and up out here), and most of them have been driven on pretty harshly.

instead, if you're stuck on the subaru thing (in general), get a 90's Impreza Wagon. yes, it will be slow compared to the WRX/STi, but it will cost about $2000, and working inside the engine bay is about a billion times easier than with the WRX/STi, you can always upgrade to stock RS/WRX suspension bits really easily and cheaply. and if you get the itch for more power, swap in a WRX engine/transmission/driveline setup. its all pretty much bolts on without any modification - wiring is a different story. :) it'll have a ton more room for storage, and most of them come with fancy 9003 bulbs (ie. H4), instead of the complete crap 9004 bulbs that plague the 2002/2003 models. the lights on the 2004 and later are better.



you do know that the 05 up legacy gt manual and automatics are turbo specific, and not all the manuals were 6 speed, i had a heavy duty turbo 5speed in a 05 gt with the ej255t

i did the plugs on my legacy, yes it was a pain but i just jacked the engine up and 3 are easy to get to, the driverside rear is a pain. its only hard if it has coil packs though.

if i were to buy a subaru to build though it would be a basics of a 97-01 impreza 2.5rs with a legacy 5 speed trans or a 6, with a ej25t, with some sort of aftermarket turbo.

not12listen
05-04-2010, 04:12 PM
you do know that the 05 up legacy gt manual and automatics are turbo specific, and not all the manuals were 6 speed, i had a heavy duty turbo 5speed in a 05 gt with the ej255t

i did the plugs on my legacy, yes it was a pain but i just jacked the engine up and 3 are easy to get to, the driverside rear is a pain. its only hard if it has coil packs though.

if i were to buy a subaru to build though it would be a basics of a 97-01 impreza 2.5rs with a legacy 5 speed trans or a 6, with a ej25t, with some sort of aftermarket turbo.

i'm very well aware that the 5MT and 6MT exist. :) i am simply detailing the half-ass tactics of subaru.

but... of all the things i've listed as negative items concerning subarus, you contest: the strength of the 05+ heavy duty transmissions, 3 of the 4 spark plugs (which is STILL a pain, even by your own words)...?

frankly, there are still a lot of other items i've listed. :)

my point with the transmissions is that subaru half-asses them, UNLESS you get the 6MT. it would be like having a s53 for a 3sge (4th gen celica), then taking off the 3sge and dropping in a 3sgte with a turbo upgrade, BUT keeping the NA transmission, but only re-gearing it. that is INSANE. you'll shear gears fairly quickly if you decide to launch on it a few times (which is REALLY common in the subaru community).

last i recall, Cobb (it might be another tuner) has an aftermarket gear set for the 5MT which is considerably stronger than the factory gears. even a friend of mine that has a 2002 WRX, says: "the clutch has to slip just a bit during engagement, otherwise the WRX transmission would never last." he's only done the exhaust, up-pipe and down-pipe - no other power mods.

but, its a sad day when a small aftermarket tuning company has to upgrade the transmission gears, because the factory won't, and that company knows it.

plenty of AllTrac owners do a considerable amount more power tuning/modifications to their cars, and don't even touch the transmission. that is because the E series transmissions are over built to hell. and the AllTrac rear diff? Helical LSD.

and not to be a jerk, but the 2.5RS is from 98-01. :) i know this because i have a 99 2.5RS. i've only done brake, suspension and CAI mods. but, let's not get me started on that topic. :)

Car_Barn_Bandit
05-04-2010, 04:35 PM
^ I always feel satisfied when I have to pick up a Yota transmission. HEAVY. It hasn't made a difference what car I have been driving, they're bomb proof.

manu
05-04-2010, 05:31 PM
Of course, it doesn't have to be Subaru. I'd rather it be Toyota or Nissan hands down. But 'Tracs are hard to find and they're getting old (I've had less than perfect experience with mine back home). Caldinas are all but nonexistant. Might even go for an BMW M3, but I'm not sure about being able to affort parts. I'd get a DD and an MR2 project car, but having two cars in college is just a hassle, on top of having to have both insured.

So really, anything with rear seats (they don't have to be huge) with comparable power/capabilities?

Car_Barn_Bandit
05-04-2010, 05:46 PM
You could always go rotary engine...

Cavanagh
05-04-2010, 06:07 PM
Give me a price range, and I'll give you a car.

Siyx
05-04-2010, 06:30 PM
Having 2 cars isn't a hassle if you put just comp insurance on one ....
I own 3 cars and have one set as my DD and the other 2 cost me $14.00 a month for insurance. I place a call when i want to take them out and call when they are back on then property.

Dougy90
05-05-2010, 12:23 AM
yes celicaGT90 I have worked on a mitsubishi. My buddy had dodge stealth RT and that thing was hell. the simplest things took forever to fix and it was not fun. On the other hand, I do like Evo's and have never worked on them, but I hear from some of my friends who have them that they are a decent car. Im not dogging all mitsubishi's...just the 3000gt

not12listen
05-05-2010, 01:57 AM
as silly as this might sound, why not a Paseo? it has rear seats, you can drop a 4e-fte into it if you like, its inexpensive (for the most part), toyota-familiar, not complicated to work on, etc.

or perhaps a Camry wagon? the 88-91 Camry did come with a V6 option factory too! and there about a billion of them at Pick N Pull. :)

although rare, i know that AllTrac Corolla Wagons are around... or even a Tercel.

and yes, i am trying specifically to stay with Toyota. :) i've seen the engine bay of/worked on a few Mitsubishi's/Nissan's/Honda's - no thanks.

vangls14
05-05-2010, 02:16 AM
You only have a budget of $6-8k but you are cross-shopping a WRX and a VR4???

Sorry, bud, don't think you're gonna find either one at that price without a can of problems.

1) Winters don't require AWD. You just need some common sense and snow tires.

2) You shouldn't decide AGAINST the WRX just because everyone and their dog has one. That's a pathetic reason. Everyone saying that should be sporting a Pontiac Aztek. Damn, now that car is really different. I've only seen ONE. EVAR!

3) Why not get a FF? For $6-8k? 7th Gen Celica GT-S, RSX Type S, or Acura Integra. Seem to me you just want a safe car for the winter, possibly a daily driver. If this is the case, I'd stick to a sporty (if you must have a performance-oriented car) FF like those mentioned above.

Don't get caught up in wanting your DD to be a tuner/modified car. Tuner cars (especially turbocharged ones) = unreliable, which does not equal a DD. That's how I figure it.

Car_Barn_Bandit
05-05-2010, 02:33 AM
1) Winters don't require AWD. You just need some common sense and snow tires.

2) You shouldn't decide AGAINST the WRX just because everyone and their dog has one. That's a pathetic reason. Everyone saying that should be sporting a Pontiac Aztek. Damn, now that car is really different. I've only seen ONE. EVAR!

3) Why not get a FF? For $6-8k? 7th Gen Celica GT-S, RSX Type S, or Acura Integra. Seem to me you just want a safe car for the winter, possibly a daily driver. If this is the case, I'd stick to a sporty (if you must have a performance-oriented car) FF like those mentioned above.

Good call!

As long as you have awesome tires, it really doesn't matter what car you get for winter driving. I have driven a Crown Victoria, Mazdas, a honda Civic, Ford Taurus' and of course my Celica in heavy winter conditions, for months. Snow tires makes that all a breeze.

A student in my college drove a white Aztec with green/blue/purple splash decals on the sides. Man that was a UNIQUE car. Haha!

I'd take my money and put it toward something that has a high resale value and screams quality...

manu
05-05-2010, 03:15 AM
I doubt I can find a rotary that's in good condition that's cheap.

And I really am tempted to get a FF. There aren't any corners in Nebraska anyway.

Sorry everyone for the Noob-ness. Not very familiar with the car scene Stateside or how much they cost exactly. You've all been a great help, though.

Might just end up getting a decent econobox daily driver. There's not much to be done with a performance car in Lincoln, Nebraska anyway. Mostly jocks racing Mustangs in between the lights. I'm not planning to do any heavy mods (I'm not familiar with any local tuners, neither do I have the money), so there's no worry about breaking the transmission or anything like that. Eventually save up to get a project car.

Or a Civic with a fart can exhaust, just to annoy everyone here.

Car_Barn_Bandit
05-05-2010, 03:26 AM
Might just end up getting a decent econobox daily driver. There's not much to be done with a performance car in Lincoln, Nebraska anyway. Mostly jocks racing Mustangs in between the lights. I'm not planning to do any heavy mods (I'm not familiar with any local tuners, neither do I have the money), so there's no worry about breaking the transmission or anything like that. Eventually save up to get a project car.

Or a Civic with a fart can exhaust, just to annoy everyone here.

You can always lift a normal looking Celica until it becomes a monster st184.

Previa AllTrac for your off-roading enjoyment.

If you get a Civic with the fart can, make sure it's old school. Chock-Full-O-Nuts coffee can, sprayed krylon gold chrome.

I'd just focus on a reliable car, that can cheaply take you to other places, like Omaha, in style.

not12listen
05-05-2010, 05:07 AM
rotary... i've known a few friends that have owned them. they tend to be very touchy... even so far as if you swap the spark plug cables (there are 4 btw) to the wrong order, kiss that engine goodbye...

a corolla from the late 80's or early 90's would be a great purchase. solid, reliable, inexpensive, etc... :)

civic's are damned reliable and solid cars. a bit of pain to work on, to be honest. horrible scene though. you'll be considered a ricer, even if the car is bone stock. which is horrid. :( because, they really are good cars.

a good balance of reliable, fun, etc... 1986-1989 Celica GTS. they're also pretty inexpensive. and, its one of the BEST non-turbo/supercharged engines you'll find in the US from Toyota, hands down.

Okctrd
05-05-2010, 05:35 AM
have you considered a 7 gen gts? i mean, seems good for a dd and makes almost 180hp and its a toyota lol.

not12listen
05-05-2010, 05:49 AM
those lift bolts really are a nasty thing to fix when they break... hope you enjoy replacing the head! :)

celica9303
05-05-2010, 06:02 AM
lol your location states malaysia how can the caldina be non exsitent there? there a caldina club there(like celicatech)....

joe's gt
05-05-2010, 08:04 AM
Corollas are great choice. Most Honda's are great just as long as it doesn't get stolen and as long as you don't thug it out.

Joe (85gtsblackman) would recommend anything with a 22 r series motor and when I was doing research into a dd I heard those things can last forever. No power, but should be reliable. He also recommended legacy's to me which are also good cars based on some research I did. You could get something in the early 2000s in your price range.

manu
05-05-2010, 12:49 PM
Christine_lives: I have a monster ST184 back home (Malaysia), so I'm trying to get something new.

not12listen: If they didn't have image issues, I'd be seriously contemplating a Civic hatchback with the EG6 engine. Possibly one of the most fun cars I've ever driven. As it is I'm still thinking about it, nevermind being a ricer.

okctrd: I don't know about America, but in Malaysia, 7th gen drivers are kinda looked down upon for being ricers (most of them are). It's a very good car, though. Just too bad they didn't make a 'hot' version.

celica9303: Yep, there's a very large gang of Caldina owners in Malaysia. There are so many it's not even cool anymore. But they're the ST215 version, and those tend to be owned by rich boys with too much money, as they're still pretty expensive. Anyway, I'll have to be changing my location. I'm in America right now. Just got here, which is why all the questions.

Did they not sell the Starlet in America? A Starlet Glanza would be a good DD, besides being a bat out of hell on the weekends.

d1alltrac
05-05-2010, 01:12 PM
E36 M3 is BY FAR the best car mentioned in this thread. BMW parts are not expensive, some parts that I've bought from toyota have been pretty ridiculous by comparison.

Hipster Lawrence
05-05-2010, 01:38 PM
E36 M3 is BY FAR the best car mentioned in this thread.
That is probably true

BMW parts are not expensive.
Are you smoking crack?

joe's gt
05-05-2010, 07:54 PM
^^ +1

Mafix
05-05-2010, 08:31 PM
i see lots of bad info in here.
depends on year and condition. i'd take a first gen 3kgt over a early 2k wrx any day, pending on milage and mods. but then i'm a tuner at heart and i used to work on tons of 3kgts. i never liked wrx's, personal preference.

one more thing...
for a beater, buy a beater. get a honda or toyota or hell even a crapalier. it's a beater.

d1alltrac
05-06-2010, 03:58 AM
That is probably true

Are you smoking crack?

You must have more experience on the subject. How long have you owned and maintained your BMW? I must still be a noob with only 8 years.

It's just a sterotype. I meet people who drive $40k accords and think my car is super expensive. Sure an oil change at the dealership will cost $200, but if you do it yourself it's no more expensive than any other car. This goes for parts too. Join BMWCCA and most dealerships will give you a 20% discount, or just order your parts online from tischer bmw or autohausaz, like most of us do anyway.

Aftermarket parts are comparable in price to other cars, but that baller titanium exhaust is obviously going to be expensive. In some cases you can save money; if I just want a quality suspension upgrade for the 330 I have no less than 10 options starting around $700, if I want the same for an alltrac I better have at least $1500 ready.

grimmythereaper
05-06-2010, 04:08 AM
3000gt vr4 ftw

manu
05-07-2010, 02:32 AM
The plot thickens!
But really, anyone find me an E36 BMW for a good price and there'll be no more arguing needed.

vangls14
05-07-2010, 08:28 PM
The plot thickens!
But really, anyone find me an E36 BMW for a good price and there'll be no more arguing needed.

Not gonna happen for $6-8k, I promise you. You might be able to find a new painted door or trunk lid though. Don't quite know how you're gonna drive that though.

Anyone suggesting an M3 is on crack. /thread

manu
05-08-2010, 03:32 AM
Not gonna happen for $6-8k, I promise you. You might be able to find a new painted door or trunk lid though. Don't quite know how you're gonna drive that though.

Anyone suggesting an M3 is on crack. /thread

):

d1alltrac
05-10-2010, 01:01 AM
Not gonna happen for $6-8k, I promise you. You might be able to find a new painted door or trunk lid though. Don't quite know how you're gonna drive that though.

Anyone suggesting an M3 is on crack. /thread

You're an idiot. A trunk lid? :lmfao:

There are 49 e36 M3's on autotrader under $8k. Then you can check forums, locally, etc. Sure it would be better to have $10k or so, but 8 can easily get you one with 100-120k in good shape...I've seen good ones that I wanted to buy around 8-9k lots of times.

edit: There are cheaper ones out there, but this one looks pretty good. He wants 9k but you might be able to talk him down if you have cash.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1450915

skidMarkNZ
05-10-2010, 01:37 AM
My father has owned a twin turbo manual gto for 10 years....

DO NOT TOUCH ONE WITH A FUCKING POLE.

absolute nightmare to work on, everything went on it, valve seals, both headgaskets twice... transfer cases etc etc...

go look on www.3000gtperformance.co.nz they are the guys here having absolute nightmares with them....

now the wrx, ive had a couple of friends that own them, apart from blowing turbos they are pretty solid it would seem, we did learn they are an absolute cop magnet though.

considered anything nissan???

300zx? skyline? silvia? rear wheel drive though, hmmm in 4wd you dont really have many options.... the mitsi's blow transfer cases, i'd go the wrx out of the two.

in reply to some of the other stuff....

bmw parts are terribly overpriced....

and holy hell you guys pay through the ass for jap cars, i can get a twin turbo gto here for 5k.... 4K US ish

or i can get a 96 wrx sti ra.... for 6,900.... about 5k US


You only have a budget of $6-8k but you are cross-shopping a WRX and a VR4???

Sorry, bud, don't think you're gonna find either one at that price without a can of problems.

1) Winters don't require AWD. You just need some common sense and snow tires.

2) You shouldn't decide AGAINST the WRX just because everyone and their dog has one. That's a pathetic reason. Everyone saying that should be sporting a Pontiac Aztek. Damn, now that car is really different. I've only seen ONE. EVAR!

3) Why not get a FF? For $6-8k? 7th Gen Celica GT-S, RSX Type S, or Acura Integra. Seem to me you just want a safe car for the winter, possibly a daily driver. If this is the case, I'd stick to a sporty (if you must have a performance-oriented car) FF like those mentioned above.

Don't get caught up in wanting your DD to be a tuner/modified car. Tuner cars (especially turbocharged ones) = unreliable, which does not equal a DD. That's how I figure it.

you really are a know it all aye...

he lives in frikking nebraska dude, he needs a daily driver for the winter.... and you tell him to buy an ff???

and dont tune a daily dirver, dude everybody does it, not everybody can afford a weekend play toy, for most including myself the daily driver is what we drive most so we want it decent.


common sense and snow tires? well yes if he wants to nurse it, but given he wants to modify his car, i think he wants to have a little AWD SNOW FUN

he asked which out the two, he had already narrowed his list down... and from my last post i can see how there isn't much else in AWD. and yet everybodys suggesting this and that, and you come along reccomending an ff.... celica loyalty has to end at some point and common sense come in.

you seem to make a habbit about making your opinion completely different to everybody elses, i'm not sure if its because you wernt hugged enough as a child or if you are too thick to know any better.


What do you guys think about this car? I'll need a car before the fall, and right now I'm on the fence between an Impreza WRX or a 3000GT. Basically it's deciding between practicality and performance. I've heard horror stories about the 3000GT. Thinking about a 1995 M3 too, but it's RWD and I live in Nebraska. Also, parts should be expensive for a BMW. Thoughts?

ahhh you didnt mention celica gt4? i am guessing out of your price range over there?

if you dont mind having a rwd.... consider a nissan 300zx....

manu
05-10-2010, 08:58 AM
These threads are steering me off both the wrx and gto, actually. More and more tempted to get the M3. Nevermind the snow. I'm sensible enough not to fool around in it. As for parts, I'll be doing most of the maintainence myself. No mod or anything. Just watching it carefully.

skidMarkNZ. Good points, and it's good to hear from someone who has experience. The GTO forum people deny it being a terrible car to live with. And hey, lets not start a flame war. Can't get any of the japanese imports here. Even if I do, it'll be too pricey and old. The GT4 stopped with the ST185 here so it's too old. And Nissan only imported the 240sx which is pretty old and expensive too. The 300zx only has two seats, so that's out. Skylines were never imported. So the choice for japanese cars are pretty bad.

Maybe I should buy American.

manu
05-10-2010, 08:59 AM
These threads are steering me off both the wrx and gto, actually. More and more tempted to get the M3. Nevermind the snow. I'm sensible enough not to fool around in it. As for parts, I'll be doing most of the maintainence myself. No mod or anything. Just watching it carefully.

skidMarkNZ. Good points, and it's good to hear from someone who has experience. The GTO forum people deny it being a terrible car to live with. And hey, lets not start a flame war. Can't get any of the japanese imports here. Even if I do, it'll be too pricey and old. The GT4 stopped with the ST185 here so it's too old. And Nissan only imported the 240sx which is pretty old and expensive too. The 300zx only has two seats, so that's out. Skylines were never imported. So the choice for japanese cars are pretty bad.

Maybe I should buy American.

d1alltrac
05-10-2010, 09:20 AM
Don't forget to check what insurance is going to cost, it could be a significant difference between those cars. If necessary you can check on a 4 door e36 m3.

Physlis
05-10-2010, 10:06 AM
as silly as this might sound, why not a Paseo? it has rear seats, you can drop a 4e-fte into it if you like, its inexpensive (for the most part), toyota-familiar, not complicated to work on, etc.

While I was stationed in Italy one of my buddies had a 90-something Paseo that we beat the hell out of. I think he had it for about 2 years before we both changed bases.

I'll do the bad first:
-First off, headroom in the back sucks. IF you make it back out you'll either have a concussion or be hunched over if you're over 5' tall.
-Second, there are no rear brakes, period. I rotated his tires and was going to replace the brake pads and found that the only thing in the back was tiny little e-brake drums.
-Lastly, changing the oil filter kinda sucks too. For some reason it's pointed straight at the radiator and you've got about 2" of room to get your hand into.

The good:
-That thing was pretty quick. If I was driving on the Autostrada I could break the speedo needle (110+), not too shabby for the Celica's little cousin.
-It also handled pretty well. If memory serves (and doesn't embellish) it handled fairly well on the mountain passes. Got some FF powersliding done doing an up-and-over on the mountain one late night.
-No matter how hard we beat it, we couldn't kill it. I broke many personal (street) time-trial records getting from point A-to-B. I know I put it through hell and I'm not sure what all he did in it. I think we only changed the oil once.

I liked it, I would've bought it off him and brought it back if I had the cash and needed wheels.


Italy was a myriad of cars, many of which I drove as DD most weekends.
BMWs just didn't... feel right. I dunno, they just did things I didn't like or just were odd about things. Shifting and maint. mostly. Bimmers will throw codes even if you fix the problem until a certified BMW tech clears them (i.e. oil change light will stay on even if you just changed it).
Got to drive a 3000GT (not VR4) one time. Guy wouldn't let me jump on it since he was pretty wrecked that night, got an overall neutral feeling from it.
Also drove a classic mini; very quick, very fun and much more interior space than you'd think.

Overall, my top cars I drove there were: my '93 ST185, my '95 Opel Astra 1.8, buddie's Paseo, classic mini. Nothing else really piqued my interests.

*edit: If you really want to go dirt cheap but fun DD/easy build I'd suggest picking up Project Car Magazine. They've done a few really cheap builds that still reatin DD reliability on non-existant budgets.

Night_Wolf
05-10-2010, 02:22 PM
he lives in frikking nebraska dude, he needs a daily driver for the winter.... and you tell him to buy an ff???



Have you ever driven an FF car in the snow? Mines a 3S swap and I have no problem driving in the snow with it, and haven't gotten stuck at all pre or post swap

Treskilyon09
05-10-2010, 03:31 PM
I had a 3k gt... It was hell to work on if u had a choice between a wrx n that dnt even consider the 3k unless it's the vr-4

joe's gt
05-11-2010, 12:41 AM
The 300zx is a great project car and freeway killer, but NOT a dd. The 2+2 is still pretty much a 2 seater considering how little room there is, it's a bitch to work on, and is hit or miss on reliability. Don't get me wrong, I love the look of it and think its got great handling for how heavy it is, but even if it ends up being reliable, its hard to work on, which is NOT what you want for a dd that you have to constantly do general maintenance on. Someone could find a drawback to any dd you get, but a 300zx is far from a good, reliable, comfortable for other people dd.

skidMarkNZ
05-11-2010, 05:25 AM
The 300zx is a great project car and freeway killer, but NOT a dd. The 2+2 is still pretty much a 2 seater considering how little room there is, it's a bitch to work on, and is hit or miss on reliability. Don't get me wrong, I love the look of it and think its got great handling for how heavy it is, but even if it ends up being reliable, its hard to work on, which is NOT what you want for a dd that you have to constantly do general maintenance on. Someone could find a drawback to any dd you get, but a 300zx is far from a good, reliable, comfortable for other people dd.



i have a 300zx as a daily driver, yes everybody goes oh its a bitch to work on blah blah blah, but now that i own one its not actually that bad, everything is pretty accesible, a bit tight yes, but with the right tools nothing is particulary difficult on at, at worst you have to take intake manifold off get get at one hearter hose on back of motor, but all your standard maintenaince stuff is a piece of piss, as a daily driver it has been reliable and purrs like a kitten, its a nice comfortable car, big but nimble etc, the perfect daily i found... ...


at the end of the day if you really want a sensible reliable daily driver you buy a civic.... any performance car can be a daily driver if you respect it, but if you are going to thrash it and do "phat skidz everywhere bro" nothing is going to handle it, yes the 300zx z32 is a bit of a bitch to work on, but it is a walk in the park compared to a mitsubishi gto....

and to the origional poster, you say you are getting put off....

you asked for opinions on vehicles, as always people will always point out the bad.... a most people know somebody who had something bad happen and had a big cry about it, people will always cry wolf etc... but very rarely do you hear positive things about any vehicle...

alot of owners can be biast, but there are also those who are loyal to the car and stick by it because it gets a bad rep for no reason....

but form actual first hand experiance working on a gto (3000gt) i really wanted one but wouldn't touch one after having to work on one, but most bolts are accesible on a 300zx, and if the worst happens and you cook something on any motor youll usually have to yank it....

i mean hell

in a 300zx... you can get the headers off, do the timing belt.... get ann the intake manifold off ... heads sump etc etc.... without yanking the motor, hell what more do you want to do to a daily driver....

4thgenceli
05-11-2010, 09:23 AM
Personal attacks will not be tolerated. This thread is locked.