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Hookecho
04-29-2010, 02:10 AM
so after taking the 5sfe as far as i was willing to i decided that it was time to swap the 3sgte into my car. i went with the 2nd gen 3sgte which i purchased from venus auto out of CA. the motor cost me $1550 and arrived yesterday(4-27-10). before i unloaded it from my truck i gave it a good rinsing. i could tell that the motor had been sitting on a concrete floor for awhile because there was a good amount of oxidation on the aluminum parts and rust on the pulley's.

so this is what i started with(for those that don't know). rebuilt 5sfe with i/h/e, cams, ported head with .050in milled for a 1 point gain in compression, a few other little mods and an safcII.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/cai5.JPG

now i have this.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/bay1.jpg

i spent the day prepping the celica and pulling the awd trans off the 3s. man that is one heavy ass transmission.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/trans2.jpg

it's a good thing i have one of these.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/hoist.jpg

it helps to make light work of the heavy stuff. so after breaking the trans from the motor i was able to get it on the stand . i pulled the intercooler and a few other things off so that i could get the wire harness off. i then pulled the valve cover and timing cover off to inspect the seals. i was absolutely amazed that there were no oil leaks.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/motor1.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/timing2.jpg

the turbo is in good shape as well. no excessive shaft play.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/turbo1.jpg

so after i got the wire harness out of the celica i laid them side by side for comparison. the 5sfe harness is on the right. the extra 3ft of wire you see coming from the ecu plug end is for my safcII.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/harness.jpg

after that i pretty much called it a day. i'll work on the project some more next week. still have to order a fuel pump, a boost guage, boost controller, and a few other things. which i will do tomorrow. next week i plan to rewire the harness.

MCcelica
04-29-2010, 02:30 AM
Sweet!

4thgenceli
04-29-2010, 02:33 AM
Engine sounds like it was in basically the same shape that my 215 was :P

85gtsblackman
04-29-2010, 05:01 AM
give u 50 bucks for the old motor


nice work though, keep it going

donteatbugs
04-30-2010, 11:55 AM
what boost controller you looking at?

Shadowlife25
04-30-2010, 12:11 PM
Don't mess with the SAFCII unless you have a reputable tuner and the $$ to get it done.

The 3sgte does not lend itself towards being friendly with that piece.
It makes your afr's and timing go nuts.

I am sure there is a thread somewhere that expounds on this.

Anyhow, looking good so far! :)

The Captain
04-30-2010, 01:46 PM
You have 7 days until the Dragon and you're sleeping? Get to work!

Murgatroy
04-30-2010, 01:49 PM
Mudhoney could use that old motor...

Looks good Bruce!

Hookecho
04-30-2010, 03:01 PM
what boost controller you looking at?

i was leaning toward the hallman pro.

http://www.boostcontrollerstore.com/controllers/Hallman-Pro-Manual-Boost-Controller-Kit-p-19.html

Hookecho
04-30-2010, 03:04 PM
Don't mess with the SAFCII unless you have a reputable tuner and the $$ to get it done.

The 3sgte does not lend itself towards being friendly with that piece.
It makes your afr's and timing go nuts.

I am sure there is a thread somewhere that expounds on this.

Anyhow, looking good so far! :)

i'll just us it to monitor then.

jayess
04-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Looks nice. Good luck with the swap. I may be selling my w2a setup and my ct20b after I get done with my project. If you're interested I'll give you a hell of an in-state discount.

Hookecho
04-30-2010, 04:39 PM
^^ yes, i want that. i'll drive down to get it. just let me know.

ChrisD
04-30-2010, 04:44 PM
Awesome! Exciting to see all the swaps going on this spring. :)

For boost controllers, take a look at http://twosrus.com . $50, quality and operation is very good, and they support our community which is always a plus.

jayess
04-30-2010, 05:28 PM
It's gonna take a couple months to get the engine together and in but you've got dibs.

Hookecho
04-30-2010, 05:32 PM
^ good deal.

Hookecho
05-01-2010, 05:53 PM
so i went this boost gauge from Twos R Us.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/blueboost.jpg

i bought a TRE 255lph fuel pump. i opted for it being that it runs quiet.

Bugs was awesome enough to give me a good deal on a HKS EVC EZ boost controller. thank you my man. :biggthumpup:

Carolina91GT-S
05-01-2010, 06:07 PM
I also went with the TRE pump for the same reason. Has been working great for over a year so far.

I also have a SAFC II that I have not connected yet. I am starting to 2nd guess the idea of using it. What is another option to control AFRs without going standalone?

What XMSN are you going to use?


~Chris

Hookecho
05-01-2010, 06:34 PM
if i do anything with afr's i'll use a wideband. i will use my safcII as a monitor for now. i like the interface. i'm not going to make any fuel adjustments with it.

as for the trans.

i'm going to run the auto and hope that it gives me a good 4 months. i would love to always run an auto trans to be honest. the celica is the only automatic vehicle i have ever owned and i like it. i'm going to run a stock motor and stock boost on my auto trans and see what happens.

the way i see it is that my trans is freshly rebuilt, and has handled the extra power that came from modding my 5sfe. it even handled the 75 shot of nitrous that i used before selling the kit. granted i wasn't always in the nitrous like i will be in the boost. i figure it might be able to handle a stock 3sgte. if it does i'll try to push it to the limit. if it doesn't then i'll swap. i'm more driven by curiousity than anything. so we'll see.

when i get through spending $4000 on home improvement projects i'll be able to get the trans that i want, but i would like to keep with the auto.
__________________

Carolina91GT-S
05-01-2010, 07:23 PM
I hear you. My dishwasher, washer, dryer, and Oven all died within the last 2 months...and my Fridge is looking at me funny. I may have done my project stuff differently....forgies etc come to mind...if keeping the homefront running right wasn't costing $.

I'm interested to see how the Auto XMSN handles it. Keep us posted. Managing your AFRs won't be an issue if you stay stock boost. I am hoping to bump it up a bit and was hoping to use the SAFCII to control AFRs...

~Chris

donteatbugs
05-03-2010, 03:12 PM
oh dang, i had that boost gauge too! i guess i should have mentioned it

Hookecho
05-04-2010, 05:03 AM
what else are you holding out on? you have a pm mr.

Shadowlife25
05-04-2010, 05:35 AM
Bruce, did you purchase your fuel pump already?

I told you I can get MKIV SupraTT pumps for $150 shipped right....
I posted it, of that I am positive.

Hookecho
05-06-2010, 01:42 AM
today i tackled the wiring. i began by tearing off the wrapping on the loom and then i had to identify what wires i needed to run the auto trans. i just located both of the transmission harnesses and tracked down each wire to its destination on the loom. i was unable to find the pinouts for the 5sfe Auto w/ECT so i pulled the top off of the 5sfe ecu to get the pinouts from the board.

i then began labeling all of the wires and started cutting them away. after i separated the wires that i needed for the auto trans i then put them back together to form a separate wire loom.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/completed_5sfe_auto_harness.jpg

i am going to have to run both the 5sfe and 3sgte ecu for this swap. the 5sfe ecu will control the transmission. the transmission will also be taking readings from the 3sgte's tps sensor, coolant temp sensor, and cold start injector. at first the thought of having to wire this up was intimidating, but after i started working on it i found it wasn't so bad. it's still a mild pita.

i have the main harness wired up with the pins for the transmission. i will put together a pinout diagram and post it later. i wired up the ecu grounds, solonoids, gear sensors, and ecu battery terminals. the speed sensor and trans sensors will be spliced in with the 3sgte body plugs.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/plug_end_of_5sfe_auto_harness.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/tps_and_cold_start_section.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/water_temp_section.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/wire_harness_diagram.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/plug_in_ecu.jpg

so after finishing up the auto trans harness i had to decide if i was going to extend the 3sgte harness or run it through the driver firewall. i decided to go through the firewall. it seems much easier.

after a quick look under the driver side dash i noticed there was a factory cut out for the harness already in place for the right hand drive celica.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/harness_hole.jpg

this is the route i will run the harness. there's plenty of room and the harness is plenty long enough.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/wire_harness_route_under_dash.jpg

i had to remove the windshield wiper motor and make a hole in the firewall to gain access that spot. it's a tight space to work in.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/wire_harness_hole_in_firewall.jpg

i feel certain that i can mount both ecu's in this area. one will be in the factory mounts and the other i will stand up on end and mount in front of the center console area.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/ecu_mounting_area.jpg

this is what's left of the 5sfe harness after i raped it.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/remnants_of_harness.jpg

Hookecho
05-06-2010, 01:47 AM
here are some of the pinouts for the 3sgte. mine is a 92-93 ecu model.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/st185ecupinouts_1.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/ecusignaldescription_1.jpg

these are pinouts for the body plugs. the ones next to the ecu.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/st185bodyplugs_2.jpg

i am going to make a pinout sheet for the 5sfe auto w/ect and post it here later.

Carolina91GT-S
05-06-2010, 02:24 AM
Hey that looks familiar

I'm impressed with the decision to run both ECUs.

Hookecho
05-06-2010, 04:21 AM
i can only hope it works like i want it to.

Hookecho
05-13-2010, 03:12 AM
so the flexplate from the 5sfe auto trans will bolt up to the 3sgte, but it takes a little modification. the bolts for the 3s flywheel are larger in diameter than those for the 5sfe so the flexplate's bolt holes had to be enlarged. after i did that it fit perfectly on the crank.

after that i worked on getting the motor in the car and bolted up to the trans. i plugged up a few harnesses to their respective sensors and called it a day.

next week i'll mount the ecu's and plug up the wiring. i'll also get the fuel pump installed and hopefully crank the motor.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/engine_in_2.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/engine_front_end.jpg

heres some goodies that the UPS man left.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/gauge_and_pump.jpg

Mr. Babb
05-13-2010, 03:43 AM
nice

Shadowlife25
05-13-2010, 03:49 AM
Go Bruce!!!!! :woot:

Great progress and nice job on the photo documentation. :bigthumbu

Hookecho
05-20-2010, 02:00 AM
well, what a day i had. i overlooked something and i know better.

i started off the morning with installing the crank pulley so that i could rotate the crank and bolt the flexplate to the torque converter. i quickly found out that i couldn't turn the crank. i knew it turned fine before installing the motor. so i scratched my head for a minute and realized that that bolts that hold the flexplate to the crank had to be the culprit.

so i had to drop the transmission...ugh. luckily i had not bolted up the cross members yet.

so after i dropped the trans i unbolted the flexplate and sure enough, the crankshaft turned freely. it turns out that the bolts from the 3sgte are slighty longer than those of the 5sfe. the 3sgte flywheel is much thicker than the 5sfe flexplate. which i knew from comparison. i never thought about the bolts being to long due to the difference in thickness of the 2. so what happened is that once torqued the bolts were pressing against the block with just enough force to keep the crank from rotating.

so with the help of my bench grinder and belt sander the bolts were shorthen by 3/16in. i then installed the flexplate and the crank turned freely. i then bolted the transmission back on. by this time it was 1pm. i then installed the axles and buttoned up a feww other things.

afterwards i installed the new fuel pump the belts, and the power steering reservoir. then i filled the motor and trans with fluids.

at 5pm i called it a day. i took some vacation time next week. i'll be off work monday - thursday. i'll have her humming down the road next week. should only have a day's work left.

4thgenceli
05-20-2010, 02:03 AM
well, what a day i had. i overlooked something and i know better.

i started off the morning with installing the crank pulley so that i could rotate the crank and bolt the flexplate to the torque converter. i quickly found out that i couldn't turn the crank. i knew it turned fine before installing the motor. so i scratched my head for a minute and realized that that bolts that hold the flexplate to the crank had to be the culprit.

so i had to drop the transmission...ugh. luckily i had not bolted up the cross members yet.

so after i dropped the trans i unbolted the flexplate and sure enough, the crankshaft turned freely. it turns out that the bolts from the 3sgte are slighty longer than those of the 5sfe. the 3sgte flywheel is much thicker than the 5sfe flexplate. which i knew from comparison. i never thought about the bolts being to long due to the difference in thickness of the 2. so what happened is that once torqued the bolts were pressing against the block with just enough force to keep the crank from rotating.

so with the help of my bench grinder and belt sander the bolts were shorthen by 3/16in. i then installed the flexplate and the crank turned freely. i then bolted the transmission back on. by this time it was 1pm. i then installed the axles and buttoned up a feww other things.

afterwards i installed the new fuel pump the belts, and the power steering reservoir. then i filled the motor and trans with fluids.

at 5pm i called it a day. i took some vacation time next week. i'll be off work monday - thursday. i'll have her humming down the road next week. should only have a day's work left.
I had the same thing.. I had to shorten some bolts for my motor bracket. The dealer couldn't order the ones (discontinued), so I bot some that were 10mm longer and just cut them down.

Hookecho
05-20-2010, 02:17 AM
i could have bought shorter ones but those bolts are expensive. i bought some lock washers this morning thinking that would give me the clearance i needed. which it did, but then the dadgum torque converter would not seat against the flexplate because the washers made the bolt heads stick out to far.

zen
05-20-2010, 08:19 PM
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/1/4/3/harness_hole.jpg
just to save you some trouble, this is not the harness hole. this hole was predrilled for the clutch pedal assembly. the clutch master cylinder goes in that place. i did the auto to manual swap and can confirm what this hole is used for. if you dont plan on ever converting to manual then your setup will be fine. but if the conversion is going to happen, then i suggest you reroute out it. if im correct, on this board, what one person did was cut a hole in his firewall (right above shifter cables through the firewall) and pulled the harness through there. no extending was needed to be done.

Hookecho
05-22-2010, 05:50 AM
thanks man, that never occurred to me.

i already have the harness run through there but if i do swap to the manual i can simply unplug the harness, pull it through the firewall, and reroute it. really wouldn't be a chore.

Murgatroy
05-22-2010, 06:10 AM
I like the Glock on the strut tower.

4thgenceli
05-22-2010, 06:42 AM
I like the Glock on the strut tower.
Never know when someone's gonna catch ya Ridin' Dirty. When I get home from work I usually have my Springfield just chilling in the cart.

celica9303
05-25-2010, 04:30 AM
all this swaping makes me sad :-( good work ! i hope the auto trans works .