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View Full Version : Project: Finally got the money and time



jayess
04-27-2010, 01:26 AM
I've had my all trac for over a year now and it's had its ups and downs. I can say, although not proudly, I've got as much or more in it than what I paid and the only thing I've done to it is a ct2ob. Well after sitting for the past 4+ months it's running and seems like it could do well for a while, so I've decided to start my engine build. I've been reading over at alltrac.net and mr2oc and think I may have come up with my setup. I've done my research and before I order all this I wanna see what ya'll think and see if anyone has something laying around that could be of use to me and save me some cash. I know this site isn't dedicated to one model of celica but we'll see.

I'll start off with the car. It's a 92 ST185 107.xxx miles and so far everything is in working order, besides an airbag light that came on after switching out the ecu. I plan on doing the 5s stroker with 3s head and st205 gearbox. I'm gonna do the build in stages with the first one being the engine itself, then fuel system, turbo setup, and ems. I'm gonna include the price on the parts I've got estimates on so far just in case someone knows a cheaper/better route to go.

Stage 1
Head
HKS 264 in/ex cams 335.75 ea (ATS suggested GSC cams, but I wasn't getting the HKS from them so not sure if they're as good or they just wanted to sell something else.)
ATS Engle springs 96.00 set
ATS Adjustable cam gears 150.00 (Heard 5 bolt is best, anyone got any experience with 3 bolt?)
ARP Head studs 136.16
O/S valves (I've been told their not need but the guy doing the maching work said I might as well while I'm in there if I plan on running high rpms. Not sure what I'm gonna do as of yet.)

Block
5sfe block and crank
Eagle ESP H Beam rods 296.00 set
ATS Wiseco 8.3:1 stroker pistons 550.00 set
ACL main and rod bearing set 199.00
ARP main studs 92.52 set

Machine Work
Turning rod journals, head work, boring cylinder,...etc(Got an estimate of around 600 which would include installing O/S valves.)

As far as the fuel, turbo, and ems goes, I plan on messing with them once the engine is getting close to being done. I'm thinking top feed 850s or better with maybe a wolfkatz or whatever someone has for sale at the time. I'm not above a good used setup. The turbo and ems really hasn't been given much attention, besides the cost. I'm trying to get around 400 at the wheels but would settle with close to that. I've got a rc/cs wta setup that I could use for the intercooler but not sure if that'll be effective for my goals. We'll just have to see. I know I left out gaskets and other stuff but besides the hg those shouldn't be too expensive. If you actually took the time to read all of this give me your opinion if there is some other direction I should go in. Right now I have about 5k I can spend but that's at the moment. There will be more to spend the next few months, but trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. Like I said with alot of things I'm not against used.

Also if there is anyone that has used the 5s block if you could let me know what all I'll need that is 5s specific. Not sure what all I'll be able to swap over.

90blacktrac
04-27-2010, 05:05 AM
Make sure to check Mr2oc from time to time, HKS cams and 800+cc injectors are commonly up for sale there.

jayess
04-27-2010, 05:17 AM
Yeah I've been keeping my eyes open. Missed a cheap set of cams yesterday.

90blacktrac
04-27-2010, 05:25 AM
Haha yeah I was debating on those too.

joe's gt
04-27-2010, 07:00 AM
Looks good to me. If you're reconditioning the head with stiffer springs, then not getting OS valves would be pointless. OS valves will only complement the rest of the build and allow your engine to breathe even better.

I am not familiar with what Wiseco offers, but what made you decide to go down to 8.3:1 CR?

Doowstados
04-27-2010, 07:38 AM
Looks good to me. If you're reconditioning the head with stiffer springs, then not getting OS valves would be pointless. OS valves will only complement the rest of the build and allow your engine to breathe even better.

I am not familiar with what Wiseco offers, but what made you decide to go down to 8.3:1 CR?

I'm confused on the 8.3:1 CR as well. Sounds like a good build though...wish I had those funds :loser:

EDIT: Ignore the question I had before. I missed a part of your post.

jayess
04-27-2010, 03:00 PM
I am not familiar with what Wiseco offers, but what made you decide to go down to 8.3:1 CR?[/QUOTE]

The only other stroker pistons I saw were like 9.0:1 and I really don't wanna go higher than stock compression. I think stock is 8.5-8.8 but not sure on which exactly.

vip09
04-27-2010, 04:05 PM
If you are going to be running pump gas most of the time, I would recommend going with the 8.3:1. I had the 8.3:1 in my 5SGTE build and I was VERY happy with them.

9.0:1 pistons on pump gas with the 3SGTE is known to be knock prone after about 14psi. I destroyed a set of 9.0:1 pistons.

Read this thread on MR2OC if you want to know more...

http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=324925

jayess
04-27-2010, 06:04 PM
Good read. I'll definitely go with the 8.3:1 pistons. Vip you still got that td06 for sale? What all comes with it and how much you looking to get? Also did you use arp main studs and if so did the 3s ones work or did you have to get 5s?

joe's gt
04-27-2010, 07:03 PM
yeah, I didn't know that 9.0:1 was the only other option with Wiseco. So great choice. Looks great man! Be careful, and whatever you do, don't rush.

jayess
04-27-2010, 07:06 PM
Anyone using gsc cams? The price is good by wondering how they perform.

Yeah I almost just started ordering parts but I'm gonna take a little more time before I do that.

vip09
04-27-2010, 07:08 PM
Good read. I'll definitely go with the 8.3:1 pistons. Vip you still got that td06 for sale? What all comes with it and how much you looking to get? Also did you use arp main studs and if so did the 3s ones work or did you have to get 5s?

Yeah, I am going to sell the TD06 but the seals need to be replaced first. They are super easy on a mitsu turbo. It comes with the manifold, turbo, wastegate, and downpipe, and maybe a 4" intake. I ran a 12.2 in the 1/4 mile with a bad launch at 20psi boost. You can definitely pull 11 sec runs with that turbo kit.

I used the 3S ARP Main studs. You have to modify your oil pan for them to work.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/vip09/Alltrac/STP62885Medium.jpg

jayess
04-27-2010, 07:11 PM
K. Pm me a price.

jayess
04-28-2010, 01:59 AM
Small update. Just picked up my block from a Toyota tech my dad knows. The guy actually has a bunch of usable 5s blocks that he believes came out of 98+ camrys. Its in the Toyota box so I'm gonna cross the number over and make sure. Also got my head coming from a member on here. I'm gonna get the head work done first. Got a price from RealStreetPerformance.com for BC springs and retainers, BC 1mm o/s valves (these are coming from a mr2oc member), supertech seals, and gsc s1 268 cams, so it looks like that's the route I'm going with on the head. I'm gonna wait till friday before I order in case something better comes up though.

Vip, I can't send pm's yet but I'm definitely interested just not sure about the turbo and manifold being together. Anyway to separate them and go back to how it was originally?

vip09
04-28-2010, 05:32 AM
Small update. Just picked up my block from a Toyota tech my dad knows. The guy actually has a bunch of usable 5s blocks that he believes came out of 98+ camrys. Its in the Toyota box so I'm gonna cross the number over and make sure. Also got my head coming from a member on here. I'm gonna get the head work done first. Got a price from RealStreetPerformance.com for BC springs and retainers, BC 1mm o/s valves (these are coming from a mr2oc member), supertech seals, and gsc s1 268 cams, so it looks like that's the route I'm going with on the head. I'm gonna wait till friday before I order in case something better comes up though.

Vip, I can't send pm's yet but I'm definitely interested just not sure about the turbo and manifold being together. Anyway to separate them and go back to how it was originally?

Yeah, you can grind the welds to get them apart. But honestly with them being welded together already, it will probably cause more problems if you separate them. You will need to find a gasket, and I've heard those gaskets blow out a lot and the bolts come loose sometimes. I've never had any problems or difficulties with them being together. That turbo won't bolt up to any other manifold anyway.. it has the Greddy 3-bolt flange that no other turbos use except for the Greddy T67 I believe.

How much is he charging for 98+ blocks? I will need one in the future.

jayess
04-28-2010, 05:51 AM
He's getting 100.

I'll let you know about the turbo. That and the ems will probably be my last purchase.

jayess
04-28-2010, 06:54 PM
Well I ran the part number for the block and it is indeed a 98+. He's got plenty if anyone needs one that is close to Hattiesburg, Ms.

jayess
04-29-2010, 10:07 PM
Tore the block apart today. Went smoothly. A little wear on cylinders 1 & 2 rod bearings but that was it. Anyone know how to tell if this is in fact a 98+ block? Also it the knock sensor located at the top of the block?

vip09
04-30-2010, 05:09 AM
Tore the block apart today. Went smoothly. A little wear on cylinders 1 & 2 rod bearings but that was it. Anyone know how to tell if this is in fact a 98+ block? Also it the knock sensor located at the top of the block?

You can tell by looking at the casting around the water pump area. The 98+ has a lot more material there.

Yep, the knock sensor is at the top of the block on the back side.

jayess
04-30-2010, 05:23 AM
I wish I had something to compare the water pump area to. Oh well either way I'm gonna end up using it. I think next week I'm gonna go ahead and grind the back of the block since it'll be easier to check fitment with it empty.

jayess
04-30-2010, 07:39 PM
Ordered GSC S1 268 cams, BC reatainer and spring kit, speedtech valve seals, and arp head studs from realstreetperformance.com today. So far they have been great as far as answering questions and returning my emails within a few minutes. I'll keep ya'll informed about how shipping goes but I don't think it'll be a problem. The head should be on it's way Saturday and the BC o/s valves should be here Monday. I'm gonna get some pics up when I get the parts in and after I get the head work done on it. I'm still debating on going shimless bucket but not sure as of yet. I'm gonna talk to the guy doing the work once I take it to him. I do have a quick question though. I've been looking for upgraded valve locks/keys, not sure exactly what they're called, but have been unable to find any. I assume that the stock ones should be fine. Am I wrong?

Next up is ordering my bottom end parts, which should be Monday or Tuesday. What bearings should I use? ACL, King Racing, Clevite???

Another little update, the st205 trans should be delivered today.
Well I guess my phone messed up exactly when the delivery company called today so it's gonna be Monday on my transmission.

90blacktrac
05-02-2010, 03:46 PM
Check out www.powerenterpriseusa.net/ they have some really nice hardend steel backed bearings.

jayess
05-02-2010, 04:40 PM
Look like nice bearings. I just don't feel like paying 700+ for them.

90blacktrac
05-02-2010, 10:44 PM
Yeah they are a bit pricey but their head gaskets are the best, as far as bearings go toyota oems are among some of the better for a solid bottom end, what ever you go with it must be a hardened steel backing.


...well I kinda take that back cause I see that you have aftermarket rods on your list but I will say stay away from clevlite77 crap unless you have a small block chevy, they are only good for imbeding dirt and don't like high rpm.

Also importperformanceparts.net is a great place to get parts from it is the flatlander racing for import cars.

jayess
05-04-2010, 01:58 AM
Well as of today the st205 trans is on deck and looks to be in good order. Hopefully the head, cams, and all the other parts will be in by Friday so I can get them to the machine shop. Anyone know if I need the cam gears for the guy to do all the head work?

jayess
05-04-2010, 03:21 PM
Anyone got a 86-89 3SGE TVIS intake manifold for sale? I'm gonna make a WTB ad but just wanted to posted here in case there are some that don't check that section.

vip09
05-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Well as of today the st205 trans is on deck and looks to be in good order. Hopefully the head, cams, and all the other parts will be in by Friday so I can get them to the machine shop. Anyone know if I need the cam gears for the guy to do all the head work?

What exactly is the guy doing when you say "head work"? Usually they just need the bare head unless you want to pay them to take it apart and put it back together. They won't need the cam gears.


Anyone got a 86-89 3SGE TVIS intake manifold for sale? I'm gonna make a WTB ad but just wanted to posted here in case there are some that don't check that section.

There are usually some in the junk yard down here. I have one laying around but I don't really want to sell it yet.

jayess
05-04-2010, 03:59 PM
He's gonna check the head out make sure everything is good, do the o/s valve job on in and install the cams, springs, etc. The shop does performance engines but I'm not sure how many 4 cylinders they've messed with. I'm gonna have a sit down with him before he does anything.

How big of a deal was it installing the 3sge manifold? There's a pretty good thread over at at.net that I've got some info off of. The bottom line is I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go fmic with this build and this seems like the best route to go.

jayess
05-04-2010, 07:53 PM
Well I was just thinking to myself how good the celica has been running lately and wouldn't you know she started overheating. Hopefully she'll be okay till I get home.

jayess
05-04-2010, 09:09 PM
Well she sat for about 15 mins before I drove 20 minutes home and the temperature gauge didn't move from its normal spot. I'm gonna let it cool down and check it out some.

Siyx
05-04-2010, 09:42 PM
Sounds like the same problem i had in the Supra. Its a stuck valve umm what's the word I'm looking for ... in the rad. Somebody help me out here .... common problem .... pressure builds and the valve is supposed to pop open ..... sorry having a blonde moment.

Stuck thermostat !!!

jayess
05-04-2010, 10:31 PM
Thermostat is fairly new but that's what I figured too.

jayess
05-05-2010, 03:44 AM
Well the spring kit, seals, and arp head stud kit came in today and the cams are due for delivery tomorrow. Hopefully the head won't be too far behind and I can get them down to the machine shop.

Carolina91GT-S
05-05-2010, 04:07 AM
I have a 3SGE intake manifold and a brand new front mount intercooler available. I'll trade you for a pair of System 10 door panels.

~Chris

jayess
05-05-2010, 04:16 AM
If I had an extra set you my friend would have a deal.

Also, I'm pretty sure I can use my tvis but just wanna make sure I don't need the one off the 3sge. Anyone know?

jayess
05-05-2010, 02:10 PM
Cams came in about 30 minutes ago. That had to be the earliest fedex delivery I've ever gotten. Hopefully the head will be in later today or tomorrow.

vip09
05-06-2010, 08:41 AM
If I had an extra set you my friend would have a deal.

Also, I'm pretty sure I can use my tvis but just wanna make sure I don't need the one off the 3sge. Anyone know?

I used my 3S-GTE tvis plates, they were gutted.

jayess
05-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Got the head in today and took it to get the work done. Gonna be at least a week which is fine since I haven't even ordered the bottom end stuff yet. Also got the intake manifold in today as well, so I gotta start reading some threads to figure out what all I need to do to make it work.

jayess
05-13-2010, 02:45 AM
Anyone got any input about the haltech e8? Seems like a good price on one over at mr2oc and I don't wanna pass it up if its a good setup. I've read a little and it all looks positive so far. If anyone has first hand experiences with it let me know what you think.