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View Full Version : Ordering a fuel pump tomorrow



FluffyNutts
03-25-2010, 10:17 PM
a question, I plan on getting one from walbro, the question is a have a 5th gen with a 3sgte swap, which pump do I get from them that will fit with the same wires etc.

Shadowlife25
03-26-2010, 01:00 AM
Why a Walbro pump?

I ask because you can use a MKIV Supra TT OEM pump that will outperform a Walbro in every aspect.

If price is a concern I can tell you where to purchase from.

Should run you just under $150 SHIPPED.
That includes the pump itself and the pump screen.

Beats a Walbro any day in my book.

Smaay
03-26-2010, 02:56 PM
where can you get an OEM MKIV TT pump for 150 shipped?

but for the Walboro question, the GSS 341 or 342 should both work for you. the 341 has the inlet and output on opposite sides, and the 342 has them on the same side.

ChrisD
03-26-2010, 03:23 PM
I ordered a Supra kit for mine, worked perfectly. I forget the place tho as that was many years ago.

Shadowlife25
03-26-2010, 10:52 PM
I paid less than $150 shipped.

Go HERE (http://fuelpumps.com/) and order this:
1 x DENSO 1020 RACING FUEL PUMP @ $149.00

Comes with pump and screen and the little locking tabs that hold the screen to the pump.

*NOTE*
The pump assembly will come in a KYOSAN box.
It is still the correct pump.
KYOSAN modifies the factory DENSO pump.

FluffyNutts
03-27-2010, 02:30 AM
Thanks everyone, and I should have no problem hooking it up?

Mafix
03-27-2010, 02:42 AM
i'd like to see how that pump outperforms the walbro mario.
as i found on that site it is a walbro, lol.
if you click denso it goes to some other thing and OMG they pull some retarded amps!

i should note that i'm not saying it ISN'T outperforming a walbro. i'm just seeing if there is any said proof? this is the first website i've seen with a fuel pump broken down into flow rates like this. very nice!

vip09
03-27-2010, 02:43 AM
I paid less than $150 shipped.

Go HERE (http://fuelpumps.com/) and order this:
1 x DENSO 1020 RACING FUEL PUMP @ $149.00

Comes with pump and screen and the little locking tabs that hold the screen to the pump.

*NOTE*
The pump assembly will come in a KYOSAN box.
It is still the correct pump.
KYOSAN modifies the factory DENSO pump.



I only see WALBRO on there, buddy. :(

acidice333
03-27-2010, 05:04 AM
Its hidden on the bottom of the first page =/ and even then that website is broken.

Shadowlife25
03-27-2010, 11:08 AM
I will find the correct info guys.

I am sorry that what was posted was incorrect.

The link should have been for the DENSO/KYOSAN FP to suit the Supra or 300zx TT's.

I also have a link to a full out study with flow sheets and amperage ratings for a large variety of pumps.

One sec....

Here is a link to their e-bay storefront: http://stores.ebay.com/fuelpumps__W0QQ_fsubZ1191162010

Here is the BEST unbiased, by the numbers comparo of fuel pumps I have seen to date.
Given it is from 2004, but it's not like the pumps have been upgraded in that time.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm

If you think it is "too long" a read, you have NO business touching your fueling system/

Naemion
03-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Yay pictures!!!

4thgenceli
03-27-2010, 11:36 AM
Added to watch list..

Reading :wall of txt: now.

sodap0p
03-27-2010, 05:01 PM
Why a Walbro pump?

I ask because you can use a MKIV Supra TT OEM pump that will outperform a Walbro in every aspect.

If price is a concern I can tell you where to purchase from.

Should run you just under $150 SHIPPED.
That includes the pump itself and the pump screen.

Beats a Walbro any day in my book.

Hey Mario, do these pumps drop right into the original sending unit from the ST185? Any modifications needed?

Sang
03-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Holy flow drop batman...The one thing I can't stand with walbros and denso pumps is the severe drop is flow as pressure increases.

Shadowlife25
03-27-2010, 10:06 PM
Hey Mario, do these pumps drop right into the original sending unit from the ST185? Any modifications needed?

Direct replacement, one mod needed.
You must run a new power wire for the pump setup so that it can pull the current it needs.

Shadowlife25
03-27-2010, 10:07 PM
Holy flow drop batman...The one thing I can't stand with walbros and denso pumps is the severe drop is flow as pressure increases.

But look at the increase with even a small raise in voltage.

Sang
03-27-2010, 10:34 PM
But look at the increase with even a small raise in voltage.

That's indicative of just about all mainstream fuel pumps. Look up people's results using KB BAP's. But it still doesn't change the shape of the curve. It'll still tail off like a dog.

Give me a pump that'll do 300lph at 14v and 40psi that still does 270lph at 80-90psi over one that does 300lph at 14v and 40psi but falls to 170lph at 80psi. Sure you could up the voltage to make it flow more on the latter...but the same can be done to the former if you're into modding that way.

Shadowlife25
03-27-2010, 10:44 PM
True.

I like the comparo, because it just gives fact.
No opinions really, just hard numbers with flow rates.
It lets the end user make an informed decision.

Perhaps we can further this discussion and list out the line pressures (stock)
and standard running voltages of the different Toyota engines to provide some more information?

Mafix
03-28-2010, 03:03 PM
sang i see what you are saying but i can't think of anybody that is using a drop in pump at over 70psi.

Sang
03-28-2010, 05:04 PM
sang i see what you are saying but i can't think of anybody that is using a drop in pump at over 70psi.

I can think of plenty...70psi is really not high at all. It's 50psi base pressure + 20psi of boost.

Mafix
03-30-2010, 05:20 PM
most regulators are rated at 70. even all my friends that professionally run do not use this much fuel pressure. although i do tend to see this more common on the dsm guys.

Sang
03-31-2010, 03:39 AM
most regulators are rated at 70.
No, that is not accurate. Most FPR's can handle up to (and over) 100psi. Taking, for instance, the mainstream Aeromotive 13101 and 13109 as an example. Their "pressure rating" is 30-70psi which just means their base pressures are adjustable within that range. However, that does not mean they max out at 70psi. Pressure will continue to increase given positive pressure demands.


even all my friends that professionally run do not use this much fuel pressure. although i do tend to see this more common on the dsm guys.

There is obviously more than one way to put together a fuel setup. Some people like to use 40-45psi base pressure with larger injectors. Or if you have the fuel pump capable of flowing well at higher pressures, you can run a 50-55psi base pressure for a nice increase in injector flow if you need it without having to sell and buy a new set. I prefer the latter, within reason.

Mafix
03-31-2010, 03:44 AM
of course. generally what i see with say rado or curijo is more injectors. luis for example has 3 sets on his 4 cylinder. 330lbs per cylinder, lol. of course for them neither car will run on gas. both at setup for meth. i did forget to take that into account.

Shadowlife25
03-31-2010, 03:52 AM
So can we put the debate to rest with some hard facts here gents?

I thoroughly encourage debate, I just think we should post up hard facts as well here.
I made sure I posted the comparo so that everyone had hard numbers and fueling rates to go by in their decision making.

Perhaps we can turn this into a more comprehensive thread with a great information set readily available for fueling system info.

Mafix
03-31-2010, 04:03 AM
not a bad idea.

Shadowlife25
03-31-2010, 04:10 AM
The fuel pressure regulator (FPR) maintains a constant pressure across the fuel injectors. That means the fuel line pressure (at the top or entrance of our injectors) minus the intake manifold pressure (at the bottom or exit of our injectors) is a constant, regardless of engine speed, or manifold vacuum or boost pressure. The FPR connects to the intake plenum using a vacuum hose. When there is vacuum in the plenum, the FPR lowers fuel line pressure 1 psi for every 1 psi of vacuum. When there is positive pressure in the plenum (turbo boost), the FPR increases fuel line pressure 1 psi for every 1 psi of boost. The FPR maintains fuel line pressure by controlling the amount of fuel that returns to the gasoline tank. To increase pressure, the FPR creates a restriction, reducing the amount of fuel that flows through it back to the tank. The factory FPR is not adjustable and has a limit to the maximum amount of fuel that can flow through it. (Jeff Lucius)

Sang
03-31-2010, 05:23 AM
So can we put the debate to rest with some hard facts here gents?

My information regarding FPR capabilities came from my conversations with the techs at Aeromotive and SX (as those were the two most common FPRs in my price range). So I don't have any "hard numbers" to give about that.

Wolfkatz's Fuel Pump Flow Tests:

Test Rig Setup:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/wolfkatz_rig_1.jpg

Graph:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/wolfkatz_graph.jpg

AMS' Fuel Pump Flow Tests:

Test Rig Setup:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/rig_1.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/rig_2.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/rig_3.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/rig_4.jpg

Graphs:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/graph_1_-_modified_walbroexternal_walbrobosch_044.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/graph_2_-_stock_porsche_996ttdual_parallel_gtrbosch_044.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/graph_3_-_stock_evo_ixstock_evo_viistock_evo_x._walbro_in-tank.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/7/0/4/8/graph_4_-_walbrosmany_configurations.jpg

Oh yeah, forgot to mention: The "modified" walbros are just plain-old walbros but with the relief valve crushed or pinched in. Walbros tend to flow wide open as pressure increases, which is why you see a steeper slope in flow at about 60psi.

Considering the failure rates of walbro's as it is, modifying one doesn't sound too great IMO. But when they work, they are quite effective.

Shadowlife25
03-31-2010, 06:45 AM
Great post Sang. :bigthumbu

ChrisD
03-31-2010, 04:56 PM
^the wolfkatz graph there, the injector demand is at 100% duty cycle I take it? (or the theoretical maximum demand)

Based slowly on the Wolfkatz graph, I infer:

Basically, on a stock 3SGTE any of them is fine aside from the N/A pump as long as you keep boost below 20 or 25psi or so. Which you should...

On a 3SGTE with 540's, any of the upgrades listed should be fine.

On 850's, it gets a bit more tricky. If using them 100%, you probably have room for 20psi boost and 45psi base pressure. But I think most people would rather have more head room on their injectors than that...so it depends on your specific setup.

If you're maxing out 1000cc's, then you should look at dual pumps or one of the Aeromotive upgrades listed.

4thgenceli
06-15-2010, 08:35 PM
Hate to bump again, but I can't seem to pull the listing up for the Denso 1020 pump.. anybody have the direct link or was it decom'd?

v8killer
06-15-2010, 08:56 PM
that first one with the bosch 040, i expected more maybe wrong pump?? its supposed to be at close to 300lph at 92psi

Sang
06-15-2010, 09:03 PM
that first one with the bosch 040, i expected more maybe wrong pump?? its supposed to be at close to 300lph at 92psi

I think it does pretty damn well if you ask me. Every fuel pump drops in flow as pressure increases. This one drops <40lph over a 60psi interval. Hell that's better than most of the aeromotive's i've seen that high power people tend to use. 300lph at 90psi? That's only a 7lph drop after a 50psi increase in base pressure.

v8killer
06-15-2010, 09:20 PM
i know ha

4thgenceli
07-22-2010, 10:10 PM
Mario, are they still selling this Denso pump? If I can't find it I will end up buying the Walbro pump from them listed for the V6 turbo.

Shadowlife25
07-22-2010, 10:19 PM
They should be Tim. Call them on the phone and double check.

4thgenceli
07-22-2010, 10:24 PM
So appernetly these Denso 1020's are hard to come by.

He pulled the listing down off the fuelpumps.com site, but still sells them on Ebay. He's sending me the link to the ebay auction now to buy it

:on snaps: