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reese01
03-13-2010, 07:03 PM
hi folks just a question on a engine swap... I own a 91 celica with the standard 1.6 engine.would it take alot of modding and wirirng ect to drop in the 4age motor? Im sure i would need a diffrent ecu .i also would like to tear out the auto tranny and convert to 5 speed. Ive done many engine swaps and tranny conversions but only in american made cars. this is my first time working on a import of any kind. would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on this swap.

andy
03-13-2010, 10:26 PM
itll bolt right in but yeah you would have to do some wiring. tranny as well

Shadowlife25
03-13-2010, 10:35 PM
Colossus20V did this same swap I believe.

Perhaps he can post the link to his page here that has the conversion process? :)

Also, Dr.Tweak can make a plug n' play harness for you once you get the new engine and harness.

He is a board vendor and can be found from the links on the main page.
His business is called Phoenix Tuning.

KM
03-13-2010, 10:56 PM
Nice to meet a member who is willing to donate within the first month!

Colossus20v did NOT have a step by step on how to do the swap.

There are 4 main types of 4AGEs: big port (TVIS), small port (non-TVIS), 20valve (silvertop, blacktop), and supercharged.

Big ports are found in AE-82 and AE-86 (RWD corollas), small ports are in AE-92 (FWD corollas), 20v are from AE101 (silvertop Trueno/Sprinter/Levin import) and AE111 (black Trueno/Sprinter/Levin import). The supercharged 4AGZE is found in the 87-89 supercharged MR2.


Preparing to swap: There are a lot of things to consider when preparing to swap motors. First you need to ask yourself: "What do you want out of the vehicle you are thinking about swapping motors into." Answering that one question will save you a lot of time and hassle. If you are looking for a drag car please do not look at this reference any longer. You want either a 3sgte, or some other larger displacement engine. A 4AGE Silvertop has a lot of potential (see Tuning and Modifying) however you must keep in mind it is a 1.6l engine stock. Next step is to BUY A FRONT CLIP!!! I say this because I bought just an engine and wiring harness and ecu, and strongly encourage against it. You will save yourself a lot of headache doing this because you will see where each wire is coming from and goes where, thus making the swap a little easier. Wiring will be the biggest problem you have with the swap. If you choose not to buy a clip, make sure you get the correct AFM and coil/ignitor. Check the PARTS LIST if you need specific parts. Also, you will want to change the belts and other things while you have the engine on a stand or out of the car. This is also the best opportunity to clean up all of the parts and other things that may be dirty in the engine bay or on the engine.

Installation: All of the mechanical components fit well in the car. The left motor mount will need to either be shaved down a little bit or cut the came gear cover a little bit. The exhaust will need to be redone. Fitting the engine in is not real difficult, I would suggest taking the air accumulator box off because it is just immense and you do not want to dent it. Other than that it all is pretty self explaining since you already took the 4afe out.

Power Steering: Power steering lines will need to be redone and fabricated to work properly. You will need to run a hard line from the power steering pump to the rack.

AC: Will also need to be redone. My ac was already not functioning properly, so I need to address this. The lines need to be re-ran down the left side and hooked up. It should work though with your current ac system.

Fuel Pump: You can use your stock fuel pump, however it is suggested that you replace it with a newer fuel pump. Your pump was probably never replaced before and therefore is older. You can replace it with whatever you wish. The stock fuel pump will work well enough but you may wish to upgrade.

Axles: You can use your stock axels as well if you would like to. If you purchased a clip you can just use everything from the clip.

Exhaust: If you purchase just an engine setup then you should receive the stock manifold, but you may not receive the down pipe. Therefore you have to have a down pipe fabricated which just about any competent exhaust shop should be able to make. I was able to purchase a JGW Header and flange for the down pipe and then have one made.

Intake: Most people just put a filter on the end of the AFM. You should have some space to direct the filter where there should be some airflow. Basically you will have a ram air intake which works but is better if it can suck in cold air. So try to place it as far away from the engine as possible.

Transmission: You can use the stock AT180 tranny. Once again you may have a higher mileage tranny and therefore may want a lower mileage tranny. Hence another reason to buy a clip. All of the C series transmissions will bolt onto the "A" series engines without any problems. There are a couple different transmissions to consider.
Joe had some incorrect information. There are a few transmissions available, depending on price. The C52 5-speed is stock, the C56 5-speed is built better (and uses a 2000-2005 Celica GTS clutch kit with a 87-89 MR2 flywheel) and there is a C160 6-speed that is hard to find unless you get one on a Blacktop AE111 4AGE20v.



Battery: It is suggested that you move the battery to the trunk so that there will be more room in the engine bay. There is no reason to not move the battery. You can purchase kits from many different manufacturers. But you will be satisfied with the freed up space in the engine bay.

Wiring: The wiring is what makes this swap the biggest headache and causes most people to either get stuck with the swap or not even begin it. Do not think you can just jump into this swap and tackle this task unless you have experience in wiring. You need the factory BGB for the celica and then you also need the ecu pinouts for the 4age 20V. Another reason to buy the clip is so you can see the gauge wires and see where each wire came from. It is advised that you take the 20V wiring loom and put it next to the stock loom. Then compare and plan out what will need to be wired up and where you have to connect the looms. The gauge cluster wires will need to be connected and some other wires. If you get confused and are not too sure about some things you will either need to check the wires with a multi-meter or you may want to consider a standalone ECU such as a megasquirt setup.

With the wiring, when you're using the 4age20v harness, if you decide to get that engine, you will lose functionality of your airbag, as the Trueno/Sprinter/Levin does not have them and there is no pinout in the diagnostic port in the engine bay. I found this out after spending $15 building an airbag reset light I apparently can't use.

Bill Sherwood has a writeup on what you can expect ( http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm ) to get from an 4AGE. Anywhere from 115 base to 400+ (that'd require practically forged everything and 20-30 psi of boost).

An archive of Colossus20v's page is now in my directory ( http://km.celicatech.com/ ), as I am the new owner. It is a very responsive engine compared to both the 4AFE and the 5SFE, and I do plan on replacing the block with one from a 7AFE, rebuilding the head, and adding a turbo. Why? 7AGTE20V sounds awesome.

reese01
03-13-2010, 11:50 PM
Awsome info guys...thanks very much. I can see this is a swap that i just dont have time for and prob just not expierinced enough in the wiring dept to take on right now. guess ill just put in the same old 1.6 for now. thx again for the info.

KM
03-14-2010, 02:19 AM
Awsome info guys...thanks very much. I can see this is a swap that i just dont have time for and prob just not expierinced enough in the wiring dept to take on right now. guess ill just put in the same old 1.6 for now. thx again for the info.

Really, don't let it put you off. Tweak is a master at what he does, and if you have a couple of weeks to send him both engine harnesses (the one from the current engine and the one from the new engine), he will give you a product that looks completely stock. If I remember correctly, it's around $300?
In those two weeks, you could be cleaning up your new engine, replacing gaskets, replacing maintenance items such as timing belt, water pump, oil pump, thermostat, clutch/flywheel, brakes, etc. You could even spend that time coating the underbody with new undercoating (such as Chassis Saver or POR15), painting engine parts, even paint the exterior and clean the interior.

Remember... cars can be only two of three things: fast, cheap, reliable.

If it's time to change an engine, it's time to get a better one.

Besides... look at this engine:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/3525/1121/21310560070_large.jpg
7AGTE20V. Set up like this one, it's 500 hp to the flywheel. How awesome is that?

reese01
03-14-2010, 01:49 PM
ok you have talked me into it. I found a silver top 4age out of a Toyota Corolla AE101rated at 158 hp. Not sure what year only says 91 to 95 and was shiped directly from Japan. it comes with auto tranny, wiring harness and ecu... so besides the wiring harness i will need to find the correct drive axels. Can some one tell me where and what to look for? TYA here is what the ad says.....(YOU WILL RECEIVE A JDM 91-95 TOYOTA COROLLA AE101/TRUENO AE101 4A-GE 1.6L DOHC 20-VALVE SILVER TOP ENGINE, AUTOMATIC FWD TRANSMISSION, WIRING HARNESS, & ECU )

KM
03-14-2010, 04:59 PM
If I were you, I'd get a half cut. Importers like Jarco will sell everything needed. On EBay buys, you have to realize that they're only warranting the actual engine (block, head, transmission). Not any of the sensors or electronics.

I'd do a little research as to where there are importers in your state, since that's a feature we just don't have yet (it is one of my memos, though).

Now, locally, I'd recommend Jarco. ( http://www.jarcoinc.com/ )


All half-cuts are not equal. Every half-cut that JARCO imports is personally cut by one of our employees. We know the biggest problem with performing a swap is having necessary parts. This is why we prefer half-cuts over engine sets, and also the reason we cut the cars ourselves...
A typical JARCO performance half-cut is a vehicle that has been tested and driven in Japan by our employees before being cut. If the car has a bad clutch, we notate it so our customer has no surprises, and to eliminate driveability problems before the conversion. When we cut the car, we do so with the future conversion in mind. Parts such as downpipes, rear end assemblies, fuel pumps, and driveshafts are not left behind, to ensure a complete customer conversion.

There are probably members who can chime in and tell you of closer ones.

KM
03-14-2010, 05:02 PM
Also... can you drive a manual? If you're looking for an automatic transmission, stay with your stock engine. Swaps are for badassery, no lazy shifting need apply.

reese01
03-14-2010, 07:26 PM
yea i can drive stick and prefer to but the 4age im getting comes with the auto tranny and it only 650 bucks with that being said i can prob keep the swap near 1000 bucks. I cant find any thing near that with a transaxel. plus my girl can drive it. I am buying this from a importer as well from NJ. Thats about 5 hour drive for me. Now to remove the wiring harness ive never done this. Is there a thread here on how to do this the right way?

KM
03-15-2010, 12:40 AM
No writeups, it really isn't necessary. Near the passenger side strut tower, you'll see the wiring harness go through the firewall. 2 10mm nuts hold it in place. Pull up the passenger side carpet and underneath the center console, you'll see the ECU. Unplug the connectors from it and pull the wires from the bay. Then once you pull the engine, you can disconnect things from it.

andy
03-15-2010, 03:29 AM
jarco doesnt do half cuts any more. too hard to get into customs. they dont import much of anything anymore actually. still a great place to do business with.

KM
03-15-2010, 05:46 AM
jarco doesnt do half cuts any more. too hard to get into customs. they dont import much of anything anymore actually. still a great place to do business with.

I called them last week asking if they could get a AE111 with a 4age20v blacktop saying I wanted to build a 7agte20v, they didn't mention anything about not being able to.

reese01
03-15-2010, 09:00 PM
well i think im going with a manual tranny now...think i found the complete engine swap for 750.00 .Its coming from JDMenginedepot.com . Ive seen some bad stuff around the web about them and seen just that much more good.There Ebat rating is very good with only 1 bad review out 1600 for the past year granted it wasnt 1600 engines they sold but all the ones they did sell had a great review. ill just keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. Ill need to send my harness's to the well talked about Dr Tweak. and hope i get the motor running befor my 30 day warrenty runs out.

KM
03-15-2010, 09:44 PM
If Becky doesn't get a 6th gen vert, my next project is putting a 7agte 20v into a 6th gen ST. If she gets one, I'll do a 3sgte MR2.

mar_phi6
03-18-2010, 01:02 AM
always wanted to do this

reese01
03-18-2010, 03:55 PM
just a update .. . Ended up buying the 4ag-E with the auto tranny :( only because i just couldn't find a complete swap with the 5 speed for a fair price. And being low on the $$$ scene right now this is the best option for me. Im sure i will end with the 5 speed one of these days.Progress in the garage...Motor and tranny out. wiring harness out and ready to ship out to Phoenix tuning . Cleaning up the engine compartment ect .Im out of town for the next 10 days so i wont have the engine shipped until the 29Th. Question. I know the ECU is different between a A/T and M/T. How complicated will the wiring be when i do swap in a 5 speed Transaxle besides changing the ECU. Can i use the same harness with some minor moding to it?

mar_phi6
03-18-2010, 08:13 PM
where did you end up buying the swap

reese01
03-18-2010, 09:56 PM
http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/

Seems like these guys have a huge selection of anything imported. Ive read a ton of reviews on these guys and similar importers. They all had good and bad but i seen many more good then bad with JDM Engine Depot. My personal opinion is when buying a swap setup like this is going to be luck of the draw. With out being able to see and hear the engine running first is scary to me. So im crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

90CelicaST
03-19-2010, 07:37 AM
You won't have to change the ECU when you swap to a manual transmission. It's fairly common for people with MT to use the AT ecus on Silvertop swaps.

reese01
04-01-2010, 04:38 PM
Hi ya all sorry i was out of town for the last 10 days or so .I have receved my 4AGE engine. the moter is very clean out side. The oil that was left inside was very clean as well. All 4 spark plugs looked like they have all been burning near perfect as far as gas/air goes. hooked a battery up to the starter and whirled her over and all went well. Then i did a compression test. All 4 plugs removed and throttle wide open and a cold engine all 4 cylinders hit between 178 to 180 psi.Does this sound like a good psi on a cold engine? im shipping both harness to phenoix tuning today. For a plug and play harness. Ive been all over the web trying to find a front drop pipe from the factory header.I cant seem to locate one.I did find a after market header and drop pipe combo for 175.00. wich seems to cheap to me. Any one know where else i might be able to find a down pipe from factory header ? Also my axel shafts wont work with this tranny .I thought they would but splines wont line up. Could some point me in the right direction to buy these shafts please?

reese01
04-03-2010, 03:04 PM
bumping this really need some expert advice where to find or what kind of drive shafts i need to use with this swap. I really want to keep the the tranny that came with the silver top engine. as i said before the splines in my stock tranny and axles are not the same .Ive been searching all over the web I'm just not sure what im looking for exactly .The silver top I'm thinking most likely came out of a AE101 levin 92 to 96. now I know since the USA version tranny and shafts differ from the Japan version , I will need the Japan version shafts .Now what i don't know is if the japan version will fit the wheel hub on my celica? and will the lengths work? or to keep the different tranny will i need custom built shafts ? or can i make a combo using my shafts and swapping out different CV joints? I know alot of questions just really like to know what i have to do exactly before shelling out money for nothing.I also have the option of using my stock tranny , Until tomorrow, if i decide i have to use my stock tranny i need to call Phoenix tuning and let them know so i can get the harness wired for my tranny and not the Japan version. I also have a question about igniter and coil,my engine did not come with them. Can i use any igniter/coil for Toyota or do i need a 4AG-e specific part # for them. Is there after market ingniters and coils? and My last question is tryin to find the drop pipe for the 4AG-e if i could find it to come from the factory header i can mod anything from there easily. So far the only thing i found was this on E-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170462092998&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT[/URL]I think will work if any one knows if it will or will not chime in please.I really have been reading alot around the web but just cant find the information i really need. Alot of questions i know and I'm just getting my feet wet learning the ins and outs of Toyota's and imports. I appreciate any and all feed back here .I will feel obligated to send another donation if i get half my questions answered in this post lol. TYA P.S. I know the best advice i got was to buy the front clip. I didnt relize the extra money i will be putting out would have paid for the clip :(

4thgenceli
04-04-2010, 06:52 AM
reese01, I'd suggest to kick off a thread in our Project sub-forum. Here, you can post your progress, pictures, and ask questions.


I'm not all that familiar with the A-series engines. Keeping that in mind, you should be able to swap transmissions between motors like on the S-series (3sgte/3sge/3sfe/5sfe/etc). There may be a hybrid clutch setup that you'd need to do, but that's not to bad.


As far as wiring the transmission, there shouldn't be anything different between the 2 manual transmission electrical-wise. The Reverse sensor should be the same connection between the two (white plug on top of transmission). When Tweak wired up my harness, I didn't specific what transmission I was using.

reese01
04-06-2010, 01:23 PM
Sorry i started new thread in My projects.