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CriScO
02-27-2010, 01:21 AM
A friend of mine posted this in her journal today, thought I'd share. Always nice to see an outside perspective that makes sense.


The Toyota recall brought publicity to some sad stories. There have been accidents. There may have been 19 fatalities. The company is going to fix the problem. And now, I think we should move on.

Oh but no, there has to be a CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION to find out what happened! Call the government, get more regulations, find out how to prevent 19 deaths in the future! Throw millions at the regulatory agencies, give them more power, make Toyota jump through beaurocratic hoops forever!

It all pains me, for several reasons. First, I'm a good-hearted libertarian who just doesn't understand why government needs to be involved in everything. Second, I'm an educated capitalist who knows it's not in Toyota's best interest, financially or otherwise, to be killing people. Third, because I work in an industry that's regulated almost to death: aircraft.

I mean, for the past 50 years the FAA has just gotten huge. Some things they do, I appreciate. I'm a pilot, I'm glad there are some controlled airspaces where they provide a tower and controllers so I don't have to worry about a crop duster with no radio colliding with me on final at an international airport.

But a lot of the certification-related stuff I do at my job is sort of, well, pointless. We fill out forms, we keep up databases, we write 60 page reports about why an ELT we've installed for 20 years is, shockingly, safe on this other model too. But I sincerely believe that my company would still make incredibly safe airplanes, even without the FAA. We'd still have members sitting on international committees working on ways to improve safety. We'd likely have independent, non-taxpayer certification, sort of like the UL stamp on electronics you buy (and that seems to work fine). We'd still do lots of testing. We'd still do analysis on our designs to know that our planes would stand up to the test of time. We'd do it because it's good business, but also because we're human... I fly these airplanes myself, I have friends that fly the airplanes, I have family members who are in commercial jets whose traffic alert systems kinda depend on our transponders working.

Government regulation can't possibly add to that. I mean, would you buy an airplane from a company that said, "We made it safe because the FAA said we had to but really we just wanted to make it cheap and shiny!" or "We made it safe to keep from being sued!" No, you wouldn't, and I'm aware of this. So as an engineer I make things safe because it's my priority and it has to be. And in the last few decades, even though regulation has been stepped up a LOT and the FAA is still seeking more funding to expand, safety numbers haven't skyrocketed with the dollars spent. Airplanes weren't falling out of the sky left and right in the 1970s.

And now I turn on the news & it almost sounds like people want to do that to Toyota. When you make every engineer write a pointless 60 page report, will you get a safer car? Probably not. One that will never kill anyone? Is there any such thing? You end up turning the engineers into thoughtless, database-generating drones, you make the cars a LOT more expensive (think airplanes!) and your return is not going to be amazing.

People, settle down. Life is precious and you need to live each day knowing that something bad could happen to you, and it might be because somebody made a mistake. A doctor, an engineer, a construction worker. You might be making mistakes at your job. We all try very hard not to and we all put checks and balances in place to prevent bad things from happening, but it's not 100% perfect and that's just how life is. Don't try to get government to fix it for you... they can't. They'll try. They'll make a big show of it, and raise taxes, and point at all the EXCITING paperwork they now have money to process. But it will not make life safe. It might give you the illusion that life is safer, but that's all you're buying... an illusion.

In reality there's already enough regulation and engineers are already making life as safe as we possibly can for you. So leave Toyota alone.

kungFUBAR
02-27-2010, 02:17 AM
I approve of this message.

*EDIT*
WOOT! 300!

Shadowlife25
02-27-2010, 03:09 AM
Great post CrIscO.

DudeMan
02-27-2010, 03:11 AM
Word.

goretro77
02-27-2010, 04:26 PM
I agree with this message.

its getting ridiculous.

VikingJZ
02-27-2010, 06:25 PM
Yeah its beating a dead horse now. They're fixing it. Leave it alone.

I guarantee you if GM, Chrysler, or Ford were in this situation, we'd have just read that the recalls exist and that they are "Attempting to address the situation the best we can."

Secretary LaHood sickens me.

The Captain
02-27-2010, 08:03 PM
What's next? Government committees for steriod use in private sports?

Waffles!
02-27-2010, 10:29 PM
I agree with the post. It's gotten way out of hand.

42qn30
02-28-2010, 02:15 AM
Very well stated. Thanks for the time killer.

CriScO
02-28-2010, 10:23 AM
What's next? Government committees for steriod use in private sports?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Good one!

At least until you really consider the reality of it...

The Captain
02-28-2010, 01:34 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Good one!

At least until you really consider the reality of it...
It's all a smoke and mirrors game to distract the public from what they are really doing in DC. They use panic, sensationalism, and racism to focus us away from how they're running this country. With our loss of ethics by government and business I fear revolution or doom.

But we always have. . .:boobies4:

Nitro_Alltrac
03-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Amen!

Great post Chris. I read a column in the Wall Street Journal the other day that this guy wrote about the hearings. He was talking about the woman who testified that no matter what she did, including putting the car in neutral and then in reverse, would stop the car. She went on to say that finally God intervened and stopped the car. The guy writing the column said yes, God probably did intervene by taking her foot off the gas pedal! I'd say he's right.

He made another really good point. The government and the media are always quick to pull out "pilot error" in the case of a plane crash. But with this, God forbid that we imply that the driver "might" possibly have had something to do with the car accelerating uncontrollably.

Congress will probably pass a bunch more regulations on the manufacturers. If they do anything, the one thing they should do is require REAL driver education prior to receiving a license. That is one thing that is really lacking here in the US. Any monkey can get a license, go out and crash and then blame the car.

I'll get off my soap box now.

T-spoon
03-01-2010, 11:13 PM
Amen!

Great post Chris. I read a column in the Wall Street Journal the other day that this guy wrote about the hearings. He was talking about the woman who testified that no matter what she did, including putting the car in neutral and then in reverse, would stop the car. She went on to say that finally God intervened and stopped the car. The guy writing the column said yes, God probably did intervene by taking her foot off the gas pedal! I'd say he's right.

He made another really good point. The government and the media are always quick to pull out "pilot error" in the case of a plane crash. But with this, God forbid that we imply that the driver "might" possibly have had something to do with the car accelerating uncontrollably.

Congress will probably pass a bunch more regulations on the manufacturers. If they do anything, the one thing they should do is require REAL driver education prior to receiving a license. That is one thing that is really lacking here in the US. Any monkey can get a license, go out and crash and then blame the car.

I'll get off my soap box now.

I agree completely. That lady's testimony made absolutely no sense. Even if she did have her foot on the gas still, putting it in neutral and then reverse would mean she could rev it till it exploded and it wouldn't accellerate. Now MAYBE if she was on a very steep grade neutral wouldn't slow her down, but then it would just be gravity working, not the car. But even then.. once in reverse.. :umno:

I also agree completely about driver training. What we currently have is a farce. Any moron can and does get licensed and on the road. Driving is NOT a right. It is a privilege, and it needs to be treated that way, just like FAA licenses which are worded as such.

Physlis
03-02-2010, 12:20 AM
^I agree. While I was stationed in Italy I talked to some of the locals about how they get a licence there since they seem to repect other drivers and move over if they aren't going as fast. On top of that there were many more people riding bicicles and mopeds than you see here in the states. I was told that in order to get your driver's licence you had to pay somewhere in the range of 300 Euros to take the exam and if you failed not only did you lose that 300, but you have to start over from the begining (i.e. classes and such). I won't say the info is 100% correct but it makes sense.

If we did a similar thing here (maybe $150 to take the test) and you had to go through a few driver's training courses at your own expense I think we would be better off. On top of that we would be able to take the Euorpean model and be able to be a little more relaxed on speed limits and such (i.e. your being safe and not becoming a hazard, your ok).

just my .02

andy
03-02-2010, 12:34 AM
this makes me so mad im not even going to start typing a response, oh wait.

MCcelica
03-02-2010, 12:35 AM
Nitro. You're on the money. I mean, say if the car did go into reverse... Then she'd be suing them for making a tranny that goes in reverse because it blew her tranny out. She's retarded.

Though I do agree with making drivers more educated... it's probably not going to happen. Its cheaper to pass regulations than start programs that improve peoples skills.

Physlis: They won't be able to charge for a license or mandatory class as that would exclude most minorities, then we'd be hearing from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. And that's a whole other can of worms.

celicaGT90_05
03-02-2010, 12:36 AM
that guy couldnt be any more correct, government just shoves their nose into everything. Im not sure how exactly it helps the country by pressing onto a national business

matteo80
03-02-2010, 12:44 AM
Cars are a million percent safer than they were 30 years ago. Even domestic cars.
But this isn't about safety it is about destroying a japanese automaker.

Except Toyota employ thousands and thousands of Americans, I should now since I work for Saatchi LA and they pay my check.

Nitro_Alltrac
03-02-2010, 02:44 AM
Cars are a million percent safer than they were 30 years ago. Even domestic cars.
But this isn't about safety it is about destroying a japanese automaker.

Except Toyota employ thousands and thousands of Americans, I should now since I work for Saatchi LA and they pay my check.

You are very correct about the cars being safer. Seat belts weren't even standard until around 65 or 66. Safety glass was a little earlier. They're not interested in safety. It's grandstanding in an election year and I still think there's something to this and the government owning GM and Chrysler. The UAW is loving this as well.

It is impacting Toyota. I work at the WV engine/transmission plant and we are seeing fluctuations in volumes due to all of this right now. It's really ridiculous.

RIalltrac
03-02-2010, 03:16 PM
Physlis: They won't be able to charge for a license or mandatory class as that would exclude most minorities, then we'd be hearing from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. And that's a whole other can of worms.


Not 100% true....its been a while and things may have changed (got my license 15 years ago), but I was required by the state of MA to take a drivers education class (which was money out of my pocket) and I also vaguely remember paying a fee (because a state trooper had to ride shotgun for the actual road test) to take my driving test for my actual license. The fee would be lost if you failed the test and you would have to start over. Now that was just for being a first time license holder in the state of MA...you can come into MA and get a license if you've held one in another state....so that sorta dilutes thier regulation on having people "trained"

This whole thing with toyota does remind me of the commentary in fight club when Ed Norton was telling the lady on the airplane about how recalls work....19 deaths wouldnt have sparked a recall by his standards.....

T-spoon
03-02-2010, 05:39 PM
Not 100% true....its been a while and things may have changed (got my license 15 years ago), but I was required by the state of MA to take a drivers education class (which was money out of my pocket) and I also vaguely remember paying a fee (because a state trooper had to ride shotgun for the actual road test) to take my driving test for my actual license. The fee would be lost if you failed the test and you would have to start over. Now that was just for being a first time license holder in the state of MA...you can come into MA and get a license if you've held one in another state....so that sorta dilutes thier regulation on having people "trained"

This whole thing with toyota does remind me of the commentary in fight club when Ed Norton was telling the lady on the airplane about how recalls work....19 deaths wouldnt have sparked a recall by his standards.....

Yeah well, I was required to take a driver education course in my state also to get a license. I can tell you that had my parents not already taught me how to drive, it would have been an almost worthless class. Our driver education and training is still pitiful and if you don't put any care or attention into it, the system will not force you to. The tests are still very easy.

ChrisD
03-02-2010, 05:52 PM
Great post.

Nitro_Alltrac
03-02-2010, 05:53 PM
Passing driver's ed when I was in school was pretty much dependent on not spilling the coach's coffee in his lap. As long as you could do that, you were golden.

andy
03-02-2010, 06:33 PM
we got to drive to hardees for breakfast

matteo80
03-02-2010, 07:24 PM
You are very correct about the cars being safer. Seat belts weren't even standard until around 65 or 66. Safety glass was a little earlier. They're not interested in safety. It's grandstanding in an election year and I still think there's something to this and the government owning GM and Chrysler. The UAW is loving this as well.

It is impacting Toyota. I work at the WV engine/transmission plant and we are seeing fluctuations in volumes due to all of this right now. It's really ridiculous.

I think people are starting to see through the governments excessive Toyota kicking, if anything they are actually doing Toyota a favor now by being such assholes. Everyone always hates the government and seeing them make Toyota grovel is starting to make most people sick. It's not as though Toyota are alone in using electronics (what the government is trying to blame the problems on), most manufacturers have had drive by wire since 2001.

I've certainly been working a hell of a lot harder since all this happened. Every week, we are putting out new recall ads in all major newspapers.

extremeskillz
03-02-2010, 09:10 PM
100% agree with that post!

Toyota_Todd
03-03-2010, 02:58 AM
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-Reasons-to-Buy-a-usnews-4222408108.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=5112ea6ae844788f7195ce3d15fa6575&ccode=mp

Not a bad read. Some good points brought up and some of the BLUE links provide some insight to other aspects of recalls and effects.

mannygtfour
03-03-2010, 05:14 PM
wow great post.

Galcobar
03-12-2010, 05:29 AM
Ye gods -- report on the experience of that Prius driver who had to be stopped by the highway patrol. Note the bolded section.


Runaway Prius driver, patrol officer recount burning brakes as Toyota reputation suffers blow

EL CAJON, Calif. - Before he called emergency dispatchers, James Sikes says he reached down with his hand to loosen the "stuck" accelerator on his 2008 Toyota Prius, his other hand on the steering wheel. The pedal didn't move.

"My car can't slow down," he began when a California Highway Patrol dispatcher answered his call.

Sikes, 61, rolled to a stop 23 harrowing minutes later, he and his blue Prius emerging unscathed but Toyota Motor Corp. suffering another big dent. Toyota has watched its reputation for quality crumble with recalls tied to risks that cars can accelerate uncontrollably or can't brake properly.

Todd Neibert, the highway officer who gave instructions to Sikes over a loudspeaker as they went east on a mountainous highway near San Diego on Monday afternoon, said he smelled burning brakes when he caught up with the Prius.

The officer said he told Sikes to push the brake pedal to the floor and apply the emergency brakes as the Prius neared 85 mph (137 kph). The car slowed to about 55 mph (88 kph), at which time Sikes says he turned off the ignition and the car came to a stop.

"The brakes were definitely down to hardly any material," Neibert told reporters Tuesday. "There was a bunch of brake material on the ground and inside the wheels."

The officer found the floor mat properly placed and the accelerator and brake pedals in correct resting position.

The freeway incident happened at the worst possible time for Toyota - just hours after it invited reporters to hear experts insist that electronic flaws could not cause cars to speed out of control under real driving conditions.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has sent two investigators to examine the car. Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the automaker is sending three of its own technicians to investigate.

Another Toyota spokesman, John Hanson, said the company wanted to talk to the driver.

Sikes' car was covered by Toyota's floor mat recall, but the driver said the pedal jammed and was not trapped under the mat.

Sikes, a real estate agent, said he was passing another car when the accelerator stuck and eventually reached 94 mph (151 kph).

During the two emergency calls, Sikes ignored many of the dispatcher's questions, saying later that he had to put his phone on the seat to keep his hands on the wheel.

Leighann Parks, a 24-year-old dispatcher, repeatedly told him to throw the car into neutral but got no answers.

"He was very emotional, you could tell on the line he was panicked," Parks told reporters outside the CHP's El Cajon office. "I could only imagine being in his shoes and being that stressed."

Neibert told Sikes after the highway patrol caught up with him to shift to neutral but the driver shook his head no. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip.

The driver rolled down the window and Neibert told him to apply both brakes. Sikes said he lifted his buttocks from the seat to press the floor brake, an account backed by the officer.

The cars manoeuvred around two trucks going uphill to a "clear, wide-open road," Neibert said. The officer had only about 15 miles (24 kilometres) to stop the vehicle before a steep downgrade and was considering spike strips to puncture the tires as a last resort.

In the final minutes of the call, Sikes tells the dispatcher, "My brakes are almost burned out."

After the car stops, Sikes sighs with relief.

Neibert, a 14-year CHP veteran, worked with Officer Mark Saylor, who was killed in August along with his wife, her brother and the couple's daughter after their Lexus' accelerator became trapped by a wrong-size floor mat on a freeway in nearby La Mesa. The loaner car hit a sport utility vehicle and burst into flames.

Toyota has since recalled some 8.5 million vehicles worldwide - more than 6 million in the United States - because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius. Regulators have linked 52 deaths to crashes allegedly caused by accelerator problems. Still, there have been more than 60 reports of sudden acceleration in cars that have been fixed under the recall.

-

Associated Press writers Stephen Manning in Washington, D.C., and Greg Risling in Los Angeles, and AP Auto Writer Dan Strumpf in New York contributed to this report.

The guy's scared he'll flip the car by disconnecting the engine from the transmission, but isn't scared of melting his brakes or turning the engine off -- after he nearly burns out his brakes.

What a bloody moron.

Shadowlife25
03-12-2010, 05:38 AM
Common Sense........ Not so much anymore. :(

MCcelica
03-12-2010, 11:57 PM
*Facepalm*

Boycott!Swagger
03-13-2010, 12:09 AM
I could not agree more with what he said. Thank you for the enlightenment

5thgenkeeper
03-13-2010, 03:54 AM
Yeah its beating a dead horse now. They're fixing it. Leave it alone.

I guarantee you if GM, Chrysler, or Ford were in this situation, we'd have just read that the recalls exist and that they are "Attempting to address the situation the best we can."

Secretary LaHood sickens me.

Not even, who has even heard about the 1.3 million vehicle recall (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703807904575097134094293008.html) GM just put out for power steering failures? A problem that is easily reproducible when it happens and had generated thousands of NHTSA complaints.


Ye gods -- report on the experience of that Prius driver who had to be stopped by the highway patrol. Note the bolded section.



The guy's scared he'll flip the car by disconnecting the engine from the transmission, but isn't scared of melting his brakes or turning the engine off -- after he nearly burns out his brakes.

What a bloody moron.

I don't know if any of you saw this chucklehead's tv interview but he was clearly lying, just another whack job looking for his 15 minutes of fame, courtesy of the CHP.

Galcobar
03-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Further information -- this guy's car had just been in for the repair service, which includes updating the electronics to override the throttle if the brake is pressed.

Yet that system, which is composed of two separate computers, also failed? That's a hell of a lot of failures all at once.

Galcobar
03-16-2010, 08:47 AM
Gee, what a surprise: now if only journalists had done their job and been critical examiners of the claim as opposed to jumping onto the Toyota hysteria bandwagon...

http://www.dailytech.com/Mounting+Evidence+Casts+Doubt+on+Driver+in+Recent+ Runaway+Prius+Incident/article17892.htm

And the attorney representing this man who has no intention to sue? A serious injury attorney with a track record of winning large verdicts against major corporations, who also represents family of those killed in the December crash of a Lexus due to a gas pedal stuck under floormats.

RIalltrac
03-16-2010, 01:47 PM
I knew that guys story sounded fishy from the word go.....with all the media attention pointed to these issues, you'd think that if your car all of a sudden goes all crazy on you that you would be able to just either turn the car off or pop it into neutral. He was afraid it was going to flip? is that for real? How does a car rolling in nuetral in a straight line flip? Yet he wasnt worried about flipping it when he was physically trying to pull the gas pedal up with his hand while doing 90 mph down the highway...ya thats a whole lot safer. I love the part about how the dispatcher told him to put it in neutral with no response from him.....He's obviously out for a piece of the lawsuit against Toyota....I dont care what him or his lawyer say (why would you need a lawyer if you werent after anything?)

T-spoon
03-16-2010, 04:53 PM
(why would you need a lawyer if you werent after anything?)

To defend you when your ass gets taken to court for fraud and reckless driving.

CollapsedNut
03-16-2010, 06:47 PM
In my business class we are doing a stock market project where we buy stock and trade and whatnot for a month. I bought stock in Toyota cause it was low and I'm beating everyone in the class cause its going back up now. Think I made $1300 yesterday. If I had real money to invest, I would buy as much Toyota as I could then I would be rich in a few years.

Nitro_Alltrac
03-17-2010, 12:25 AM
The Prius thing just get more interesting as more of the post incident investigation comes out. The government didn't find anything either. I liked where his lawyer said that it didn't surprise him, they almost never find anything after such an event. Maybe that should tell them something...:slap:

T-spoon
03-17-2010, 01:53 AM
The Prius thing just get more interesting as more of the post incident investigation comes out. The government didn't find anything either. I liked where his lawyer said that it didn't surprise him, they almost never find anything after such an event. Maybe that should tell them something...:slap:

Well that's the thing, people suggest that Toyota would WANT to dismiss problems and not fix things, but if you can't duplicate an issue, how in the world are you supposed to fix it short of replacing the whole vehicle, and that's no guarantee you did anything but waste a ton of money.

Aircraft mechanics have to CND (could not duplicate) issues written up on airplanes all the time. They certainly have nothing to gain by not fixing a problem, quite the opposite. If they can't reproduce a glitch or a failure it's just crazy hard to fix. If there is some kind of electrical glitch causing acceleration on some cars, it's some kind of odd combination of factors that is just going to be super hard to track down. There could conceivably (I suppose, though it seems hard to imagine how) be such a glitch, but I find it mind-numbing that so many people suggest that if Toyota can't find it, they should just eat billions of dollars in loss, take all the cars off the road and not sell any cars for however long it takes to reproduce and fix the glitch rather than have people learn to handle their cars.

I've said it before, cars are only going to get more automated, not less, drivers will have far less control in efforts to remove the fail-human factor. There will be some small glitches but hey, that's the price you pay trying to coddle morons, right? People want to have their cake and eat it too. Stupid.

/soapbox... for now

Galcobar
03-17-2010, 02:35 AM
From my perspective the most telling arguement is the number of glitches which would have to have happened simultaneously without being at all duplicatable for this incident to be true.

Gas pedal would have to stick or drive-by-wire computer would have to glitch and send a maximum throttle signal. Brakepedal override (which involves two computers checking against each other) would have to fail. Transmission would have to somehow avoid seizing when the brakes are applied to a racing engine. Hybrid system computer would have to mis-record brake and throttle inputs.

All of these would have to happen, at once, for the incident as described by Sykes to be true. And yet not one of these systems is demonstrating any issues now?

Hard-to-find glitches are understandable. The level of coincidence required to produce this event is not.

GT4SOM
03-17-2010, 03:15 AM
Someone please explain how shifting an automatic transmission into neutral would flip the car? I can see maybe in reverse, something bad might happen lol.

Da MuNMaN
03-18-2010, 05:38 PM
i think that the government feels that if they make toyota look bad enough...people would consider american cars again...within the last month and a half.. Toyota, Nissan and Honda have had relatively big recalls...with Toyota being the largest.

CollapsedNut
03-18-2010, 06:33 PM
This whole thing is just fucking stupid and ignorant. If your so dumb as to not understand what neutral is, you shouldnt be fucking alive and I wish he would have hit a damn gaurd rail and burst into flames. Even if he was doing it to get money, how many mother fucking people did he put in risk by driving that fast on a highway. Let them down Toyota, people who are stupid shits shouldnt be allowed to have a real fucking vehicle anyways.
/end rant

Nitro_Alltrac
03-18-2010, 09:58 PM
I love the new set of class action law suits that they are trying to get going because "their cars have lost value" due to the recall. I saw today that on top of this, the damn blood sucking lawyers are trying to get racketeering thrown in on top of this since that would result in triple damages!:ar:

Where were these guys when the Ford Explorers were rolling over left and right???

matteo80
03-18-2010, 11:00 PM
The lying douchebags trying to make money, apparently he just declared himself bankrupt right before.

In the end, he's probably done Toyota a favour by being such a muppet,

CriScO
03-18-2010, 11:45 PM
So guess what the best midsize sedan of 2010 is? (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/17/youll-never-guess-which-midsize-sedan-wins-mts-latest-comparo/?icid=main|htmlws-main-w|dl5|link6|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.com%2F2010%2 F03%2F17%2Fyoull-never-guess-which-midsize-sedan-wins-mts-latest-comparo%2F)

:)

5thgenkeeper
03-19-2010, 01:34 AM
Their new grills look like they have been pre-crashed for you.

Slider
03-20-2010, 08:41 PM
Car and Driver had an interesting article with some tests. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept


With the Camry’s throttle pinned while going 70 mph, the brakes easily overcame all 268 horsepower straining against them and stopped the car in 190 feet—that’s a foot shorter than the performance of a Ford Taurus without any gas-pedal problems and just 16 feet longer than with the Camry’s throttle closed. From 100 mph, the stopping-distance differential was 88 feet—noticeable to be sure, but the car still slowed enthusiastically enough to impart a feeling of confidence.

5thgenkeeper
03-20-2010, 08:52 PM
Hah, that's more damning of the Ford's braking ability than anything else.