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Punisher
04-04-2005, 02:38 AM
Anyone else have a problem with sagging hood insulation? The insulation on my celi sags around the alternator and it basically lays on the alt.. always have black burn spots from the insulation melting on the alt.. all the clips are in though.. any idea's? I'm considering just removing it all.. only purpose I can see it serving is dampening engine bay noise.. Other than that keeping everything under the hood hot.. which isn't to good.

alltracman78
04-04-2005, 03:57 AM
You don't need it. I junked mine a long time ago [on the AT].

Punisher
04-04-2005, 05:05 AM
Only issue is my car is a repaint from red to silver.. and under the mat.. it's red.. lol.. so i may just rip it off wash it down real good and then paint can it.. However, doing a 3sgte swap.. They put that insulation on for a reason and hopefully it isn't so the hood doesn't get way to hot and start to fade the paint or something?

Punisher
04-04-2005, 05:06 AM
I'd rather just replace the insulation if it will be a good boy and not fuck with my shit.. however it does weigh pretty heavy.. Maybe I'll just talk to some people and find something else that I can use.. pick up at a hardware store or something to replace the insulation that will be thinner and take the heat and be a LOT lighter..

alltracman78
04-04-2005, 01:40 PM
Well, the lack of insulation won't cause fade, this has already been discussed on alltrac.net like a thousand times. I've had mine off for years, on the 92 and 93.

With that said, if you don't feel comfortable with no insulation, Gary [member of this board] replaced his with some aluminum stuff. If you can get ahold of him [he's around here and www.alltrac.net ] he should be able to tell you exactly how he did it.

Punisher
04-04-2005, 05:15 PM
His actual user name on the board is Gary?

I'd prefer to have something there.. just for the fact that under it, the hood is red... and it's more trouble at this point to paint it..

Gary
04-04-2005, 05:23 PM
I did mine years ago on my previous alltrac.
Here is the write up --> CLICK (http://users.rcn.com/gudonsawat/gary/insulator/insulator.htm)

http://img146.exs.cx/img146/4686/35kc.jpg

I bought the insulator from this guy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4539949879

carlosfandango
04-04-2005, 05:38 PM
:laugh: f you dont remove that shit from the hood i'll fly the feck over and take it off for you. it keeps the engine nice and hot.

Also remove any under engine cowlings so the engine can be cooled from underneath, and you know when you have oil leaks too.

I felt so silly at my first alltrac track day and ripped it off rather sharpish. :owned:

alltracman78
04-04-2005, 06:12 PM
I figured he'd be around :D

Scrodbagus
04-04-2005, 06:23 PM
This is semi off topic but Carlosfandango when you say cowlings under engine, do you mean the plastic underskirt things? After reading this thread the next time i go out to my car im gonna rip the hood insulation off, would it be ok to take off all that plastic underneithe too?

Punisher
04-04-2005, 07:50 PM
I would highly advise against NOT REMOVING the plastic covers.. I did that on my Corolla and I was so sorry for ever doing it.. I ALWAYS got water on the belts.. causing them to slip and it was a pain in the ass.. one time I even had water splash up on my alternator... maybe some of them can come off.. I forget how they are put down there.. but I wouldn't remove all of them..

I'm gonna check out your write up.. that looks exactly like the shit I wanna use Gary... I want something that will cover the hood but not really hold much heat.. If it was painted underneat the hood I would just remove it completely but I don't wanna pop my hood and have people see silver.. then grimey shit looking red lol.. I've cut some of the original insulation off around the alternator and that is what you see.. shit ass ugly dirty red.

Punisher
04-04-2005, 07:57 PM
Gary, I just read over your write up.. how is that setup working? Is it staying together good? Is that insulation thinner than the original OEM insulation?

Also I assume you used the foil tape to wrap around the entire foil insulation pad right? You didn't actually overlap the foil tape onto the insulation and on the hood right?

When I do my 3SGTE swap I may just have the under side of the hood painted.. I am going to use either an all-trac hood or just get the all-trac hood scoop setup.. and I am doing an FMIC setup with fans.. so the hood scoop will be purely for engine bay venting.. Hell I might even set a fan up inside the hood scoop to draw air in or something.

Slider
04-04-2005, 10:29 PM
What's the purpose of the insulation? It must be there for some reason?

Punisher
04-04-2005, 11:11 PM
I don't know.. apparently Toyota puts things on their cars for no good reason.. :)

Hooligan
04-04-2005, 11:29 PM
It is probably mostly for sound and so you don't get burned when you touch the hood after some spirited driving (Alltracs without insulation = HOT hood).

I would also recommend NOT removing the plastic undertrays. They are there for aerodynamic reasons as well as keeping water/dirt/mud/etc out of the engine bay.

Mr E
04-05-2005, 12:22 AM
What's the purpose of the insulation? It must be there for some reason?

Yup. Noise mostly.

Mine stays on in the winter (car warms up faster and there's no issue with heat when it's sub zero outside).

Coming off for the summer.

Punisher
04-05-2005, 12:35 AM
I'm gonna check out that water heater insulation that Gary used.. It should be thinner and probably won't hold quite as much heat as what Toyota used.. simply because the part that is supposed to hold the heat in sits on the hood.. The foil part really should just bounce the heat away.. It's really a null issue for me as I'm doing it simply for looks and when I do the 3SGTE swap I'll have an all-trac hood or something anyway.

* I don't think that foil will melt either like the black covering Toyota used.. I had that shit melting on my alternator because it was touching it.. so that is another reason I wanna get rid of the Toyo insulation.. I had to cut all of it off around the alternator..

The previous owner used a belt that was WAY to large and so the alternator was fully extended on the bracket to tension the belt and it was really shoved up on the hood insulation and it got torn up.. fricken idiots.

alltracman78
04-05-2005, 01:51 AM
Gary, I just read over your write up.. how is that setup working? Is it staying together good? Is that insulation thinner than the original OEM insulation?

It stays on pretty good.
My 91 is Garys old car.....I tracked it down and bought it from a junkyard after the kid he sold it to wrecked it.
It is a little bit thinner. And it isn't taped to the hood.

Dunno how good the scoop would be cooling the engine. It will let water all over the top for sure....
The CS hood is better for what you want...

Punisher
04-05-2005, 02:03 AM
No, water doesn't get in the scoop... I did a Trueno front end conversion on my 89 corolla.. hood has a stock scoop designed to cool the top-mount intercooler.. water never got into the scoop believe it or not.. It did get in if I lifted the hood up.. otherwise I never noticed water in the hood, gotta remember there is a lot of heat in there any the tiny drops of water that do get in just simmer off anyway.

Punisher
04-05-2005, 02:23 AM
Gary, just noticed your website is hosted through RCN... I thought maybe you were in my area (eastern PA) I also have RCN.. then I saw you are up in Boston.. that would explain it..

Punisher
04-05-2005, 06:28 AM
Welp.. I just did the job.. Came out pretty nice I got pics I'll put up then.. I'm thinking about welding tiny studs into each of the plastic snap holes though and using some fat ass washers and wing nuts instead..

However, if I ever just want to completely remove the pad I then have to deal with the fact of having studs there... I have to replace basically every fuckin clip though..
Talking about a price of 3 for 1.80 .. it's gonna get ugly.. I'll need 4 packs or 5 packs.. I might even drill some more clip holes.. I wanna make sure this damn thing doesn't sag AT ALL...

The pad I used cost 20 bucks at home depot.. I had PLENTY of room to work with.. it was a double aluminum foil sided fiberglass insulation.. with an R Value of 3.5.. I was gonna get this duct insulation which woulda been cheaper but it had an R vlue of 6.5... so that would make things even worse.

This new pad is a LOT LOT lighter and WAY thinner than the old shit.

Punisher
04-05-2005, 06:52 AM
http://b16crx.com/~tekphobia/P1010033.JPG
http://b16crx.com/~tekphobia/P1010034.JPG
http://b16crx.com/~tekphobia/P1010035.JPG
http://b16crx.com/~tekphobia/P1010036.JPG

I gotta install the thing tomorrow so I'll load more pics.

InitialD93
04-05-2005, 07:29 AM
the damn OEM pad costs more than the hood itself... i replaced it when i did my bodywork... its already starting to get ratty after only a year. i say ditch it or do the silver stuff... the OEM pad is shit

Punisher
04-05-2005, 03:19 PM
THe oem pad sucks up oil and shit today.. I got so fuckin dirty workin on it.. With the foil insulation pad I'll be able to just wipe shit right off.

MoralWarfare
04-05-2005, 04:40 PM
What's the purpose of the insulation? It must be there for some reason?
The purpose is as a fire supression system. The clips used to hold the insulation to the hood melt before the insulation, which drops the insulation and supposedly smothers the flames.

It is also designed to reduce under-hood noise from transmitting to you.

Punisher
04-05-2005, 06:11 PM
I just called a local toyota dealership asking if they had the insulation pad clips.. He says he would have to order them for a DOLLAR A FUCKING PIECE! HAH! I'll just use those universal type.. this new pad is so light anyway it should work great.

Punisher
04-05-2005, 07:49 PM
If you are going to do this mod, and you have a NAPA auto parts store near you, get the retainers from them.. they sell them in packs of 10 retainers the same as the GM type that Gary used for 5 dollars.. I bought 2 packs at an advance auto of the GM type and they were 1.50 a pack for 3... BLEH!

I'll post pics of the finished job later on.. it looks really good and it is WAY thinner than the original insulation.. I have a switch mounted under my hood for the alarm system and the original insulation is what pushed the switch down.. With this new insulation though the switch doesn't get pressed down.. :( But don't really need it anyway, gotta get into my car before you can pop the hood anyway.

carlosfandango
04-05-2005, 10:07 PM
good idea to remove the stock insulation for thinner stuff i suspose but my hood never gets 'that' hot that i cant touch it.

under engine plastic covers or cowlings, I dont drive through deep puddles ot muddy fields so how will the engoine get wet or muddy?

yes these things are put on for a reason - stock brakes, fe engines, stock suspensiona and wheels, exhaust systems etc etc etc are all put on for a reason - but we change them right!

so taking the plastic cowling and hood insulation isnt necessarily a big bad idea. its done to improve cooling. of course not everyone needs to rip it off and perhaps i was a little bit over enthused, for which i apologise. I realise not everyone can fry a rump steak on the heat shield in their engine bay like I can.

Punisher
04-05-2005, 10:14 PM
Well, I want to keep the insulation there simply for the fact of keeping the car looking clean.. it does help.. helps keep that new car appearance. I ripped my corolla to shit and I regret it.. So I don't wanna make the same mistakes with my precious celica..

Here in the northeast you NEVER know what your gonna get yourself into.. we can have some really mild winters or we can have tons of snow and having those shields on helps to keep all of that shit out of the bay and off the crank pulley.. same with rain.. it's sunny for a week and then we get so much rain that all the rivers crest at 15ft above flood stage and a city is turned into a fuckin water world.. lol.

carlosfandango
04-05-2005, 10:41 PM
granted, doesnt affect people in mid west and west coast for most of the year though as they dont get bad winters and dont get salt spread on the roads.

Mr E
04-05-2005, 10:45 PM
No, water doesn't get in the scoop... I did a Trueno front end conversion on my 89 corolla.. hood has a stock scoop designed to cool the top-mount intercooler.. water never got into the scoop believe it or not.. It did get in if I lifted the hood up.. otherwise I never noticed water in the hood, gotta remember there is a lot of heat in there any the tiny drops of water that do get in just simmer off anyway.

Hehe.

You should see the heat haze/steam out of a 185RC/205 when it's hot and the covers are off.

Punisher
04-06-2005, 06:57 AM
Oh ya I can totally see that... man.. Another reason when I go with the 3rd gen 3sgte I'm going straight to an FMIC with constant-running fan(s) and possibly even design a little mist spray down system.. who knows. I need to get into the whole forced induction a little more and see what things really make the big improvements and get into the whole science more.

sgtmayhem4
04-06-2005, 08:33 PM
Well, the lack of insulation won't cause fade, this has already been discussed on alltrac.net like a thousand times. I've had mine off for years, on the 92 and 93.

With that said, if you don't feel comfortable with no insulation, Gary [member of this board] replaced his with some aluminum stuff. If you can get ahold of him [he's around here and www.alltrac.net ] he should be able to tell you exactly how he did it.
actually it will cause fading over time, as well as an incredibly hot hood that could be harmful when touched (especially if you have turbo). my dad's been painting cars for over 20 years and that's what he tells me, so i'll take his word over anything on these boards. i used something similar to gary, the silver reflective stuff.

Punisher
04-06-2005, 09:27 PM
Yea that water heater insulation shit is fan-fucking-tastic.. easy enough to work with.. double sided aluminum foil with fiber glass insulation.. a measly R value of 3.5... and WAY thinner and lighter.. won't be as much of a bitch on your hood prop.. plus it looks DAMN fine!

I just can't get over it :)

sgtmayhem4
04-08-2005, 07:35 AM
Yea that water heater insulation shit is fan-fucking-tastic.. easy enough to work with.. double sided aluminum foil with fiber glass insulation.. a measly R value of 3.5... and WAY thinner and lighter.. won't be as much of a bitch on your hood prop.. plus it looks DAMN fine!

I just can't get over it :)
eeeeeeeeeeasy fella' :hehe:

alltracman78
04-12-2005, 03:54 AM
actually it will cause fading over time, as well as an incredibly hot hood that could be harmful when touched (especially if you have turbo). my dad's been painting cars for over 20 years and that's what he tells me, so i'll take his word over anything on these boards. i used something similar to gary, the silver reflective stuff.

Well, I've had 2 turbos, and no fading yet [over 5 years]. Hood isn't that hot. I can touch it [shrug]. Maybe not on 100 deg summer days...