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View Full Version : Uprated front sway bar?



Nate84
02-10-2010, 12:31 PM
Anybody know of any upgraded front sway bars for the ST184? I found a site that shows a whiteline bar but whiteline's site doesnt show it as a option. So i dunno. Any help?

METDeath
02-10-2010, 01:28 PM
Most people "upgrade" the front sway bar by removing it.

The reason being that it it's actually counter productive to turning and is mostly there for stability. I know off the top of my head Murg and Trance run without one. Not sure on anyone else.

I'm happy with just upgrading the rear bar with the Suspension Technique's bar (it's larger than the White Line ST184 bar and it's adjustable)

Nate84
02-10-2010, 02:10 PM
Okie. i didnt know that. but just so anyone who views this, fensport says its discontinued anyways

Mr. Babb
02-10-2010, 02:15 PM
true, whiteline has discontinued all 5gc products :(

FifthGen
02-11-2010, 12:41 AM
Why would you want to upgrade your sway bar? I also would not recommend taking it out, as if you do and you some how manage to roll your celica, insurance won't give you a penny. Get some adjustable coilovers that way your center downforce is more even and you can take turns going 100 with no problems at all. Is there a reason why you want to upgrade your swaybar in the first place?

KoreanJoey
02-11-2010, 05:30 AM
Get a hold of redrckt

KoreanJoey
02-11-2010, 05:33 AM
Why would you want to upgrade your sway bar? I also would not recommend taking it out, as if you do and you some how manage to roll your celica, insurance won't give you a penny. Get some adjustable coilovers that way your center downforce is more even and you can take turns going 100 with no problems at all. Is there a reason why you want to upgrade your swaybar in the first place?

Center downforce? WTF?

Swaybar/ANTI - Swaybar.

Reduce roll, increase response. Allow for a lower spring rate while still retaining steering response, etc, etc.

FifthGen
02-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Center downforce? WTF?

Swaybar/ANTI - Swaybar.

Reduce roll, increase response. Allow for a lower spring rate while still retaining steering response, etc, etc.

"The term downforce describes the downward pressure created by the aerodynamic characteristics of a car that allows it to travel faster through a corner by increasing the pressure between the contact area of the tire and the road surface, thus creating more grip."
So all in all you should keep your sway bar, and if you want better handling and want to retain steering, do what I told you earlier.

grayscale
02-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Why would you want to upgrade your sway bar? I also would not recommend taking it out, as if you do and you some how manage to roll your celica, insurance won't give you a penny. Get some adjustable coilovers that way your center downforce is more even and you can take turns going 100 with no problems at all. Is there a reason why you want to upgrade your swaybar in the first place?

Please refrain from commenting on subjects in which you have no idea what you're talking about.

grayscale
02-11-2010, 01:42 PM
"The term downforce describes the downward pressure created by the aerodynamic characteristics of a car that allows it to travel faster through a corner by increasing the pressure between the contact area of the tire and the road surface, thus creating more grip."
So all in all you should keep your sway bar, and if you want better handling and want to retain steering, do what I told you earlier.

That is the silliest thing anyone has ever copied and pasted here. I think maybe you should google upgrading swaybars and learn about that.
BTW- how would he get better handling by keeping the stock sway bar?

extremeskillz
02-11-2010, 01:54 PM
I have a whiteline front bar on my car and ST rear bar on my car and it's a lot more stable then before. I love it!

BTW contact RedRkt01 and see if he get you one. He got me mine for the front!

FifthGen
02-11-2010, 02:12 PM
That is the silliest thing anyone has ever copied and pasted here. I think maybe you should google upgrading swaybars and learn about that.
BTW- how would he get better handling by keeping the stock sway bar?

I never said he would get better handling, I said he would get better handling by putting coilovers in and lowering the car, I don't think you understand how gars work, or the aerodynamics of them. Maybe infact you are the one who should be doing some research, as I already did all of mine. I said keep the stock sway bar or getting a thicker one, I just said do not remove it- as this is what helps you from UNDERSTEER.

Oh and grayscale, for the record on the whole insurance thing, I ran my jeep without a rear sway bar, and had quick disconnects in the front for when I wanted to take it offroad, and I flipped my jeep 3 times down a hill, the cops got there and then I went to claim, and they came and looked at my jeep they saw I had my swaybar disconnected and didn't give me a dime. there is no reason to take your sway bar off on a little car that weighs less than 2k pounds when you can already maneuver it like a rc car. SO unless YOU have some hands on experience on this stuff, don't act like an e-toughguy.

RedRkt01
02-11-2010, 03:36 PM
true, whiteline has discontinued all 5gc products :(

I'm a Whiteline Dealer and, no, this statement is not true. It is true, however, that the BTF62 front bar for the ST184 is discontinued and there are none left in the United States.

BTW, if anyone is wondering about Grayscale's e-toughguy status.....I can confirm that he is pretty e-tough and has the hands on experience to back it up ;).

Mr. Babb
02-11-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm a Whiteline Dealer and, no, this statement is not true. It is true, however, that the BTF62 front bar for the ST184 is discontinued and there are none left in the United States.


I stand corrected, thanks man!

RedRkt01
02-11-2010, 03:53 PM
I stand corrected, thanks man!

No prob, dude. They still make a number of things for the ST185 and a few things for the ST184. I just can't remember what off the top of my head.

Oh, and FifthGen, you can't just march in here and start telling people a bunch of un-backed-up bull. This is a place where we come for help, talk about Celicas in general, and make friends....so most of us know each other and know what everybody else knows. So I can vouch for Grayscale and I fully support his trying to set you straight. The way I see it you have two options: 1) You can leave this forum and find another one that will talk fantasy with you, or 2) you can be mature, put your tail between your legs, and accept that we're going to call bullshit on you. It you choose #2 and stick around you might just learn something. If not, do everyone a favor and leave because most of the veterans around here are getting too old to listen to a bunch of nonsense. I was growing more and more frustrated with each and every post you have in this thread. Others likely were too.

GTAsian
02-11-2010, 05:54 PM
Hey redrkt, how much can you hook it up for a ST sway bar? and which would be better for the fronts? Whiteline or ST?

celica91gts
02-11-2010, 07:24 PM
I have a whiteline front bar on my car and ST rear bar on my car and it's a lot more stable then before. I love it!

BTW contact RedRkt01 and see if he get you one. He got me mine for the front!

is the st rear sway bar better then the gt or gts sway bar? i didn't know this.

Nate84
02-11-2010, 08:32 PM
celica91gts-if i am correct everyone is talking about the ST= suspension techniques rear sway bar.

FifthGen
02-11-2010, 09:14 PM
No prob, dude. They still make a number of things for the ST185 and a few things for the ST184. I just can't remember what off the top of my head.

Oh, and FifthGen, you can't just march in here and start telling people a bunch of un-backed-up bull. This is a place where we come for help, talk about Celicas in general, and make friends....so most of us know each other and know what everybody else knows. So I can vouch for Grayscale and I fully support his trying to set you straight. The way I see it you have two options: 1) You can leave this forum and find another one that will talk fantasy with you, or 2) you can be mature, put your tail between your legs, and accept that we're going to call bullshit on you. It you choose #2 and stick around you might just learn something. If not, do everyone a favor and leave because most of the veterans around here are getting too old to listen to a bunch of nonsense. I was growing more and more frustrated with each and every post you have in this thread. Others likely were too.

I'm calling bull on you, I don't think you know what your talking about. I have been building suspensions systems for YEARS by scratch. Making controller arms, cross members, and all kinds of other parts OUT OF SCRATCH. I can make my own leaf springs and shackles. I can make a sway bar that'll be stronger than anything on your car. So you can tell me my stuff's unbacked thats fine. I am just telling you try me. xD

celica91gts
02-12-2010, 01:11 AM
celica91gts-if i am correct everyone is talking about the ST= suspension techniques rear sway bar.

lolol, makes a lot of sense. sorry about that.


I'm calling bull on you, I don't think you know what your talking about. I have been building suspensions systems for YEARS by scratch. Making controller arms, cross members, and all kinds of other parts OUT OF SCRATCH. I can make my own leaf springs and shackles. I can make a sway bar that'll be stronger than anything on your car. So you can tell me my stuff's unbacked thats fine. I am just telling you try me. xD

come on guys, we're all celica enthusiasts and we're all on here to help each other and to learn. lets just try to get along. we are not 16 year olds having a cock challenge. grayscale and kj were just trying to set you on the right path. you might know how to build all these parts but how often do you push your car to the limits of grip? grayscale and kj both do a lot of autocross and can feel differences between one bar and another when people like me wouldn't be able to. they know what they are talking about. I'm not saying you don't either. but im sure you can teach each other a lot of new things.

KoreanJoey
02-12-2010, 03:47 AM
I'm calling bull on you, I don't think you know what your talking about. I have been building suspensions systems for YEARS by scratch. Making controller arms, cross members, and all kinds of other parts OUT OF SCRATCH. I can make my own leaf springs and shackles. I can make a sway bar that'll be stronger than anything on your car. So you can tell me my stuff's unbacked thats fine. I am just telling you try me. xD

You are mistaken on vehicle dynamics.... you're giving wrong information. Might work great for offroad vehicles but does NOT apply to road cars. Leaf springs and shackles? WTF does that have to do with a celica? And downforce? If you think the celica is capable of making any noticeable downforce by lowering the suspension without other aerodynamic aids you're sadly mistaken.

You might be capable of making some stuff for your jeep but you're talking to an SCCA instructor who knows what works and what doesn't. The usual advantage to running without a swaybar is better traction at the expense of response. Yes, you can somewhat correct this with a stiff spring/shock combination but at the same time you have to ensure that your travel frequency doesn't become too insane or you'll again, lose traction. It's almost always about finding that balance of response vs traction.

I'm leaving your posts in here for discussion.

KoreanJoey
02-12-2010, 03:49 AM
Hey redrkt, how much can you hook it up for a ST sway bar? and which would be better for the fronts? Whiteline or ST?

IIRC ST doesn't make a front bar for the ST184, just the rear, which is too bad. I found with my current setup it makes for lots of oversteer. The stock front bar just doesn't create enough balance with the enormous ST rear.

RedRkt01
02-12-2010, 02:56 PM
IIRC ST doesn't make a front bar for the ST184, just the rear, which is too bad. I found with my current setup it makes for lots of oversteer. The stock front bar just doesn't create enough balance with the enormous ST rear.

You're right Joey. They did at one time though.....IIRC.

Car_Barn_Bandit
03-02-2010, 06:16 PM
This is why I'm excited to build my coilovers and get some more control back. The strut tower hack had an impressive reaction to my steering, I feel 100 times more confident when taking corners.

Now if I were to run without a sway bar, how much more stress would the rest of my suspension be taking without the resistance from the bar? I know upgrading my suspension should really be a complete overhaul, avoiding any weak links.

Also, out of curiosity, has anyone fabricating their own control arm like the GT4 package? I'd be interested in losing the weight on that sucker too.

KoreanJoey
03-03-2010, 07:01 AM
Running without a swaybar will definitely increase the work load of the shocks to dampen the springs, so they will wear out faster. However, if you're running an upgraded setup you should still be able to get lots of life through a set of konis.

As to fabricating a control arm, I'm working on it but I might end up engineering a double wishbone front suspension instead of the McPherson suspension that's currently on the car but that's still a ways away.

We'll see how things go with moving the race celica into E Prepared class in SCCA Solo 2.

Car_Barn_Bandit
03-03-2010, 03:11 PM
As to fabricating a control arm, I'm working on it but I might end up engineering a double wishbone front suspension instead of the McPherson suspension that's currently on the car but that's still a ways away.

Sounds like an easy enough task...

Good luck! Has anyone else with an st185 made the leap?

Murgatroy
03-03-2010, 03:40 PM
I run without a front swaybar.

The reason for this is simpler than you might think. I took it off because the mount rusted and it was no longer doing it's job.

However, after removing it, I noticed the car had an tendency to oversteer, as opposed to understeer like stock.

I like this.

I come from a RWD background, and IMO oversteer is easier to correct than understeer, and it allows you to keep a faster speed through the corners.

My ST didn't have a front strut brace either.

I have added a strut brace, and coilovers to my setup as well. She has been lowered.

I am running a factory rear swaybar.

She is also running much wider tires than stock.

Frankly I am very impressed with the results, the car handles very well, is very predictable and very easy to control.

And it is fair to say that I am one of the hardest drivers on my car, there would be few on the site that push their cars as hard as often as I do. Which doesn't make me an expert, but it does mean that I am not talking out of my ass.

Car_Barn_Bandit
03-03-2010, 06:45 PM
And it is fair to say that I am one of the hardest drivers on my car, there would be few on the site that push their cars as hard as often as I do. Which doesn't make me an expert, but it does mean that I am not talking out of my ass.

Heh heh. I can say, all 30k miles put on my GT were well earned. I've been pulled over twice and quizzed about how I take my corners. I see a street sign that says 35mph, then dammit, I'm doing the speed limit.

I guess I am just cautious about adding new stresses to a high mileage car. I believe throughly in the build quality, and I just need to rely on what you guys have tested and know.

When I get my coilovers made, I'll lose the bar.