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View Full Version : Restore or attempt infamous AWD conversion



Tecker184
02-10-2010, 02:54 AM
Ok so here is the deal. I just purchased a 92 alltrac shell from alltracman78. I have two options.

Plan #1
Strip my GT-S of all her parts. Strip, restore, and paint shell. Drop in my st215 engine and swap the vin over from the GT-S. This will Require ALOT of time and money. The Alltrac has

Good
-Good 7th GT gen rims with good tires
-1 of 271

Bad
-No title
-Has some rust issues
-Quarter panels at first glance look fine close look reveals poor craftsmanship. Passenger side has a dent.
-No interior
-Needs a front clip
-Motor Blown
-No tails
-Brake all around shot
-Struts shot

Good
-Entire drive train is there
-7th gen GT wheels with good rubber

Plan #2
Drive my GT-S around till funds are available. Precisely cut rear sub frame out of the alltrac and graph it under the gt-s. This would require ALOT of work and i will be shooting in the dark. This option could also render both cars useless. The GT-S has

Good
-Strong running ST215 swap
-No rust anyweres
-Interior is in great condition
-Windows are tinted
-All one color
-7th gen GT-S wheels

Bad
-FWD no traction
-Needs struts and/or Coil Overs
-Passenger side has dent in rear quarter

What should i do? I know i have the tools and i fairly confident i could do either one. Plan #1 is going to require ALOT of time and $$. Plan #2 im confident i could have it cut out and welded in a week. I havnt read any documentation on someone doing this. But this would be the easiest way to attempt it having a whole alltrac at my disposal. I would over course take ALOT of pictures either way and document everything. Im at a cross roads here please help me decide!

darthripley
02-10-2010, 04:03 AM
i hate to say cut up the '92 Alltrac especially since it is a '92 but if the body is too far gone then it could live on to give the GT-S the traction it deserves.
i believe there was someone with several pics here of a red GT-S that was converted & i've also seen a convertible a long time back that was made AWD also.
the info is scarce but it should be fairly straight forward & do-able.
good luck with it all!

85gtsblackman
02-10-2010, 04:15 AM
rwd conversion, sick of this awd stuff

darthripley
02-10-2010, 04:40 AM
^ that's just b/c you don't have awd :P

85gtsblackman
02-10-2010, 05:10 AM
ive had awd twice over, and have access to awd everyday

08 subi legacy se

try again

rwd is just more fun, plus i can build a badass gts and id run for 20 years vs maintaining a trac

Hiko
02-10-2010, 05:18 AM
My $0.02

Swap over to the alltrac. If the GT-S is not your DD, and the alltracs frame isn't destroyed or the rust too bad, then the only thing you would be losing is the time. It might have problems now, but the GT-S could serve as the perfect parts car for it (assuming again that the tracs frame is ok).

Also, don't swap VIN's. It is very illegal, and not even necessary as you can obtain title's for cars without them.

Tecker184
02-10-2010, 06:18 AM
well after running the vin on carfax just to make sure it wasnt stolen or anything i discovered this

02/17/1992 NICB Vehicle manufactured
and shipped to original dealer

10/02/1992 64 New Hampshire
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Laconia, NH
Title #06183826

Title issued or updated
First owner reported
12/29/1997 42,998 New Hampshire
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Salem, NH
Title #07627558

SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
01/07/1998 Salvage Auto Auction
Salem, NH SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
Sold at salvage auction
Collision damage reported

04/01/1998 Inspection Co.
Massachusetts Vehicle inspected

04/01/1998 Massachusetts
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Boston, MA
Title #AR422799

New owner reported
SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
RECONSTRUCTED TITLE ISSUED
REBUILT TITLE ISSUED

06/09/1998 Massachusetts
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Title #AR610041 SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
REBUILT TITLE ISSUED

12/20/1999 Massachusetts
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Dracut, MA SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
RECONSTRUCTED TITLE ISSUED
REBUILT TITLE ISSUED
Loan or lien reported

01/03/2000 45,518 Inspection Co.
Massachusetts Vehicle inspected

01/07/2000 Massachusetts
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Dracut, MA
Title #AT856005 SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE ISSUED
RECONSTRUCTED TITLE ISSUED
REBUILT TITLE ISSUED
Loan or lien reported

04/13/2001 64,757 Massachusetts
Inspection Station
Dracut, MA Passed safety or emissions inspection
View what was inspected

05/15/2002 82,257 Massachusetts
Inspection Station
Dracut, MA Passed safety or emissions inspection

View what was inspected
08/02/2002 83,691 Service Facility Vehicle serviced

07/01/2003 95,589 Service Facility Vehicle serviced

07/09/2003 96,121 Massachusetts
Inspection Station
Tewksbury, MA Passed safety or emissions inspection
View what was inspected

08/26/2003 97,229 Service Facility Vehicle serviced

06/23/2004 108,714 Service Facility Vehicle serviced
1
0/24/2005 116,000 Maine
Motor Vehicle Dept.
South Portland, ME Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Exempt from odometer reporting

187flatliner
02-10-2010, 08:00 AM
I WOULD GRAPH IT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!! if you got the skills then prove it to yourself and be confident about it.

Kanoodle
02-10-2010, 08:28 AM
ive had awd twice over, and have access to awd everyday

08 subi legacy se

try again

rwd is just more fun, plus i can build a badass gts and id run for 20 years vs maintaining a trac
You also never get snow :P

Tecker184
02-10-2010, 08:47 AM
If the quarter panels were put on correctly i would save the alltrac. Who ever put them on seriously fucked the gap around the hatch. The inside of the wheel wells are filled with silicone. The rust really isnt that bad the quarter panels are what bother me. oh and the whole not having a title. I have alot to think about. over the next few weeks im going to replacing the water pump on the GT-S. once its movable i will take a look under both cars see how much work would be involved. If i proceed with graphing the AWD under the GT-S i will document everything. Maybe answer some questions that many new members have about converting there GT/GT-S to AWD.

RIalltrac
02-10-2010, 02:18 PM
If the quarter panels were put on correctly i would save the alltrac. Who ever put them on seriously fucked the gap around the hatch. The inside of the wheel wells are filled with silicone.


That kinda sucks, I had a rear quarter replaced on my trac and the work was done pretty well considering, the only problem I have is a slight gap issue with the hatch. Otherwise I didnt need to go into the wheel well so I never had to deal with that headache....with all that said and done....if you think you got the skills to cut and graph it over .......doooooeeet.....All in all your only out what $150 for the alltrac shell? I think for the stuff that you can cut out to convert the gts your well ahead of the game. The other thing to sell you on what to do is look at the front sway bar mounts on the alltrac....if they're all rotted....move along with the gts conversion.

Celiblue
02-11-2010, 01:23 AM
dang, a RWD setup would be nice tho

Mr. Babb
02-11-2010, 02:08 AM
I say go for the conversion, at least that way it will be 100% legal.

Tecker184
02-11-2010, 05:43 AM
If i didnt already spend all the time and money into the 3sgte swap i would go for a rwd 2jz haha. Yea even if i were to get the tittle for the trac it would be a reconstructed tittle and would be worthless to anyone but me.

Shadowlife25
02-11-2010, 06:11 AM
First off:

The word you are all looking for is GRAFT.

Not GRAPH. << That is what Graph paper or a Graphing calculator are for.
To GRAFT is to take from a donor area to replace or splice something missing in another.
Like a Skin GRAFT.

Now moving on:

To swap everything over to you GTS is not at all as much as you are thinking.
You have an AllTrac as your donor already. This is better than getting a clip!

You will need:
Fuel Tank
Fuel lines
Suspension (Complete)
Rear end w/diff and axles/hubs
Subframe and subframe mount points
Trunk Pan
Driveline
Driveline Carrier Bearing
Exhaust hangers and exhaust system

^^ That is basically it.

Can you weld? I mean really weld. Like a nice solid bead not just a tack.
This will be very important for transplanting the trunk pan from the AT to the GTS.
Also the Subframe mount points will need to be welded on.

If you do the complete pan and subframe mount assembly correctly, everything lines up fine.
Measure 5x and cut it once. ;)

If you are serious about doing this and don't mind paying for my time and such, I can travel out to you after the Dragon in May.

Tecker184
02-11-2010, 07:08 AM
First off if it wasn't for firefox and the spell check feature i wouldn't get half the words spelled right. Im sorry for my grammar or lack of using the right words.

Yes i can weld very well actually. Im more than confident in my ability to transplant all the parts. I will more than likely have it all swapped as soon as it warms up.

Im just going to save from now until then. Its going to more than likely need a new sending unit due to rust. The suspension components are shot so i will prolly buy a set of coil overs and a full bushing kit. Everything is getting sandblasted and coated with POR15.

I have decided to do the conversion. I will be updating in my project portion.

Shadowlife25
02-11-2010, 10:27 AM
First off if it wasn't for firefox and the spell check feature i wouldn't get half the words spelled right. Im sorry for my grammar or lack of using the right words.

Wasn't just you man. :)
Mis-spellings affect our search database so it helps to spell certain things correctly.
It was not a slight against you.

Yes i can weld very well actually. Im more than confident in my ability to transplant all the parts. I will more than likely have it all swapped as soon as it warms up.

Good to hear! You should have no issues then man. Welding is an important skill to have. I am glad you posses it and I look forward to seeing your progress!

Im just going to save from now until then. Its going to more than likely need a new sending unit due to rust. The suspension components are shot so i will probably buy a set of coil overs and a full bushing kit. Everything is getting sandblasted and coated with POR15.

POR15 is GREAT stuff! I just used a can on my brother from Albany (NY) 95 Civic Hatch. We had to weld in completely new rear quarters. (Typical NY rust all the way up the back to almost the windows!!! :ohno:)

I have decided to do the conversion. I will be updating in my project portion.

Again, best of luck Bruce.

If there is anything I can help you with, please do let me know. :bigthumbu

- Mario

darthripley
02-11-2010, 08:27 PM
rwd is just more fun, plus i can build a badass gts and id run for 20 years vs maintaining a trac

i'm curious why you think that a 20+ yr old RWD car is any less of a pain to maintain vs a 20 yr old Alltrac.
i know it's easier to work on RWD b/c it's less complicated than AWD but other than that i can't see the difference personally.
most Alltracs are in poor condition today & need lots of cash dumped in due to lack of maintenance by previous owners but once someone repairs, replaces & keeps parts maintained it's no different than any other 20 yr old car as far as stuff breaking.

good luck with the project. i'm sure that the documentation will help others who may want to go through with a full conversion.

IllIllIll
02-12-2010, 01:11 AM
I'm interested in seeing the fwd to awd conversion. I've seen a similar conversion on a Mitsubishi once, but never on a Celica.

Nitro_Alltrac
02-12-2010, 05:57 PM
rwd is just more fun, plus i can build a badass gts and id run for 20 years vs maintaining a trac

All Tracs are not some Italian exotic when it comes to maintenance. I've had mine for almost four years and I haven't spent any more money on it than I have on my newer cars or any of the 20+ year old rwd driver cars I've had over the years.. Some basic maintenance yes, oil changes, plugs, wires,etc.

The thing with All Tracs is that a lot of them have had the dog piss run out of them, the next guy buys it and wants to just run the dog piss out of it then something breaks. Big wow. If you don't do the maintenance or abuse the hell out of ANY car, it will break. The All Trac, after all, is a Toyota. They didn't farm them out to some eastern european hack to build them. Bottom line, if they have been half way taken care of, they are as reliable as any other Toyota. Yes there are a few special parts given the nature of the beast, but they aren't any more expense as othe import car parts. I wouldn't be afraid to jump in mine and drive any where. Hell, it's my daily driver, over 40 miles per day, 200+ miles per week. What problems I have had with it have been self inflicted on my part, not the car's fault. End of rant. I get tired of hearing people, All Trac owners included, talk about how All Tracs are unreliable or expensive to maintain.

Now back on topic. Mario's right, you've got everything you need for the conversion. Just make sure that you set up some jigs to make sure that you have everything aligned correctly before you start welding. If it misaligns, it might still together and work but you're going to wear parts out quickly.

Cavanagh
02-12-2010, 10:37 PM
Amen to that Nitro!

cms-gt4
02-13-2010, 03:48 AM
What problems I have had with it have been self inflicted on my part, not the car's fault. End of rant. I get tired of hearing people, All Trac owners included, talk about how All Tracs are unreliable or expensive to maintain.

+1. I never had anything ever go wrong that wasn't caused by me, or a mechanic. Luckily, now I sorted out all my own wrong doing. Sad thing was it cost me an engine.

celica9303
02-13-2010, 04:28 AM
Awesome to hear tecker. Hope it works out. Anyone know if this could be done on a coupe? Or does it have to be a hatchy? Ive comtemlated this on my convertable for a while now. (I saw on at.net that its been done on a vert , but no description on how)

joe's gt
02-13-2010, 04:33 AM
Yeah, my previous unreliability statements I have to retract now that I realize the fault was my own stupidity and noobishness with working on cars. My dd half-trac has been going strong for 2 years now without a single problem.

vip09
02-13-2010, 07:33 AM
Or you could just buy mine...

Tecker184
02-13-2010, 07:42 AM
Too far away lmao not to mention the lack of funds. When i had 5k to spend there was not an alltrac in sight or within my price range. Alltacs around here are 5k or more when you find them. Rarely are they near worth what they want either. Thats why im going this route. I dont see why it wouldnt work on a coupe. There is only one way to find out lmao

Nitro_Alltrac
02-13-2010, 08:25 PM
It should work on a coupe. That one guy did it on a vert. It would just be a lot harder due to the lack of room to work on a coupe. Structurally, once it was done though, a coupe would be much more rigid and would handle better.

celica9303
02-14-2010, 10:51 PM
Yeah I tried to find more info on that vert but couldn't find any. Yes it would be stronger with it being a coupe and convertible structured but it would also be that much heavier. The convertible is heavy enough lol still might consider it though

Shadowlife25
02-14-2010, 11:01 PM
The convertible is plenty strong, as it was reinforced everywhere due to lack of a roof. ;)

celica9303
02-15-2010, 01:56 AM
I'd be more concerned about the weight factor of the added components for the driveline. I'm pretty sure it would put the convertible above the weight of the alltrac. And that's not necessarly a good thing