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RedRkt01
01-13-2010, 11:37 PM
Fellas, where can I buy some good LEDs? I'm doing a complete lighting overhaulon the Red Rocket and I'd like to know if anyone here has had any luck with a particular merchant.

Lemme know!

4thgenceli
01-13-2010, 11:51 PM
Radioshack seems to have decent ones. Or Frys Electronics (www.frys.com)

KM
01-13-2010, 11:54 PM
Moved to the real Interior/Exterior mods board, not the technical writeup board.

Grot
01-13-2010, 11:55 PM
oznium.com sells good stuff. dunno if they sell individual LEDs though.

METDeath
01-14-2010, 01:02 AM
I presume you mean LED lights for your interior bulbs and the like? If so, try superbriteleds.com

lburner
01-14-2010, 01:08 AM
like metdeath said www.superbriteleds.com

Sang
01-14-2010, 01:28 AM
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=376680

extremeskillz
01-14-2010, 01:49 PM
like metdeath said www.superbriteleds.com

X2 as they are the best!

klapa
01-19-2010, 11:18 PM
I design electronics hardware and one of the two main things my company does is design of LED lighting products.

We have used most of the varieties of the HI LEDs - Luxor, Cree, Sharp, etc. but lately have been moving mainly to use the Cree LEDs because they are in the RTP, NC area where we are and we work closely with their engineering department.

We have a small to medium volume assembly line here and manufactur both our own OEM products as well as provide both design services and manufacturing to many major lighting manufacturers in the USA.

As an example - our latest product is a fluorescent T-8 light replacement using LEDs - it provides 90% of the lumens for 40% of the input power and has the added benefit on 0% Mercury content.

You can either PM me or post any questions here.

Luni
01-20-2010, 01:59 AM
This cat right here seems to have the best LEDS for gauge clusters Ive ever seen

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=376680

He makes his own too. Thats what I like. klapa, check them out too, Id be interested in your input on his stuff.

klapa
01-20-2010, 03:11 PM
I'll check 'em out - but need to sign up to get to the link - not a prob.

klapa
01-23-2010, 12:46 AM
Well - still trying to check them out but can't as apparently Obama must sign off on any new users....

Blackcloud
01-23-2010, 01:22 AM
like metdeath said www.superbriteleds.com

they get my vote as well

Luni
01-23-2010, 01:23 AM
LOL. Sorry man.

klapa
01-23-2010, 02:09 AM
Keep in mind - if you are looking at some regular single LED and not the new high brightness LEDs then those replacement bulbs like you see at superbright might be the best.

When you might be looking for brightness comparable to something like a headlight or taillight bulb - then those would never do the job.

The really "super bright" LEDs that I deal with everyday have intensities that allow replacement of common fluorescent and HID lighting - as an example we have a new product that will be used by the energy coops here in NC to replace existing area lights - such as those someone might buy for their own home or a commercial interest might buy for parking lot illumination.

I would be interested to know what performance (light output) and lifetime you might get out of those "bulb replacements" - because generally speaking you can't get the light output with any kind of a lifetime with an LED being run in "constant voltage" mode, such as a common bulb in a socket.

The new high brightness LEDs that can compete with a conventional Halogen or HID lights require a constant current driver circuit driving an array or "string" of the LEDs.

For a dome light or instrument illumination - the single discreet LEDs might be sufficient - but not for headlights or taillights.

donteatbugs
01-23-2010, 05:02 AM
ebay gets my vote

RedRkt01
01-24-2010, 08:49 PM
What I want to do is get the interior lighting feel that the IS250 (and presumably other Lexus models) give. I want soft, yet bright light inside the car. I also want more intense lighting for exterior lights. There are non-directional LEDs that I've seen which appear to be a great answer for brake lights, turn signals, et cetera. I've even seen them used on my application. Those came from ebay so my source says. as far as superbriteleds go.....they don't seem to offer what I have in mind.

So far this is a great thread. Good info fellas. Keep it coming.

klapa
01-25-2010, 02:56 AM
What I want to do is get the interior lighting feel that the IS250 (and presumably other Lexus models) give. I want soft, yet bright light inside the car. I also want more intense lighting for exterior lights. There are non-directional LEDs that I've seen which appear to be a great answer for brake lights, turn signals, et cetera. I've even seen them used on my application. Those came from ebay so my source says. as far as superbriteleds go.....they don't seem to offer what I have in mind.

So far this is a great thread. Good info fellas. Keep it coming.

Well I'm here to help if I can.

Generally - LEDs are highly directional because the light emanates from the actual silicon wafer which is geometrically very tiny, as opposed to a lamp filament.

Another large difference between LEDs and conventional lamps is the frequency spectrum of the light - for a filament type lamp the spectrum is very large - similar to sunlight in nature - for LEDs the spectrum is extremely narrow. What this means is that a lamp will give you that "warm yellow" light which diffuses well while an LED without optics will sometimes have "artifacts" which are undesirable.

LEDs always have some kind of optics - you can see that at least for the simplest LED there is a plastic/epoxy lens molded on it. Most LEDs meant for "lighting" applications use secondary optics which will spread the light beam out from a usual ~15-25 degree to something more useful like maybe up to 120 degree.

There are many types of LEDs but you can generally group them in two groups - "discreet" LEDs which are usually packaged with either metal or wire leads and operate "constant voltage" and are usually used as a single "light" - and SMT (surface mount) LEDs which require a PCB with adequate thermal management and nearly always are operated "constant current" in long series "strings" or multiple LEDs.

The difference between the two groups of LEDs is really very large. The discreet LED can produce a fair amount of light - enough to "make you see dots" if you were to stare into it directly - and can do this drawing only around 40mA current from the supply. Yet the newer high brightness LEDs produce PHENOMENAL amounts of light - usually being driven with .5 to 1 AMP. For these newer LEDs - they will nearly blind you if you even look at them from across a room! They also have the light output to be able to be passed through optics with associated lose of intensity and still be bright enough to suit the needs of the application.

For the interior lighting applications you are looking at - dome light, door lights, instrumentation, etc. you probably would only need the discreet LEDs that you can commonly find as a single package "leaded" device.
you would still probably need some optics - at least for the dome light - and you'd need to mock up some stuff to see if your selection still has the intensity you need after the optics.

Unfortunately - when you include the term "warm" - which is indicative of "color temperature" - you might find that you only get consistency of such with the newer SMT LEDs which include this parameter on the datasheet - not with the discreet solution.

In any such endeavor to have a successful product the challenge is the cost effective implementation of the packaging such that the device is a direct replacement for the incandescent lamp and still sells at a competitive price.

Certainly - the fact that the LED is good for a minimum lifetime of 10 years (when properly driven) is a big plus for a new auto - but a doubtful sales point for a retrofit.

RedRkt01
01-25-2010, 03:48 AM
Yeah, I've seen a bunch of SMTs that seem suitable. I just need to find some that work @ 12V and will be able to reflect light throughout a lense housing. I can get away with directional lighting in a number of places, but for exterior lamps I need to be able to utilize the reflectors on the inside of those housings.

klapa
01-25-2010, 04:55 AM
Yeah, I've seen a bunch of SMTs that seem suitable. I just need to find some that work @ 12V and will be able to reflect light throughout a lense housing. I can get away with directional lighting in a number of places, but for exterior lamps I need to be able to utilize the reflectors on the inside of those housings.

Well - they all work with 12V input with a suitable driver circuit. The basic SMT LED will drop between 3.1 to 3.5V depending on the color - here I am assuming we are talking either blue or white which are essentially the same and a nominal 3 volts - Red and Green have lower voltages.

You should not be "scared off" by the concept of a driver circuit - this adds only maybe $2 in SINGLE quantities - less than a buck in volume. This driver can either be a "buck" (reduces input to output voltage) or a "boost" (increases input to output voltage). Either way both operate to drive the LED in a constant current mode because this IS what is required - if you drive a high brightness modern LED in constant voltage mode it will be destroyed due to thermals - as the LED dynamic resistance changes drastically as it heats up - and the current is what must be controlled rather than the voltage.

Another thing to consider is the heat loss - as while LEDs are much more efficient than incandescent lamps they do dissipate large quantities of heat - and this is usually the largest part of the product expense - the heatsink itself must be "designed in" the product, normally as part of the enclosure.

I think I can help you - because I can provide some "samples" of SMT LEDs already on a PCB and also some sample optics - just by picking around in the junkpile at my work.

You need the high brightness LEDs if you hope to have a viable external lighting application that has anything like a "normal" spread and coverage of the light beam.

RedRkt01
01-25-2010, 02:25 PM
Klapa, I'll post up the different socket housings the car has and perhaps you could lend your expertise to help me decide on the BEST solution.

klapa
01-26-2010, 03:31 AM
Klapa, I'll post up the different socket housings the car has and perhaps you could lend your expertise to help me decide on the BEST solution.

Yea - well do that when you can - as the "mechanical form factor" is the very first criteria to be considered in any design - this defines the size and orientation of the components used to satisfy the design parameters.

After that - the "price point" is next - when the mechanical and electrical parameters are set then the components chosen - the assembly (labor) might also be "guesstimated" and we will know whether or not we have a viable product concept to continue on to the prototype stage.

Incidentally - I did already get some stuff from work to send you to play with if you want it - these are things used in various projects in the prototyping stages that were paid for by our customers and long since forgotten and relegated to the "junk-heap".

Among these parts are a few "generic" off-the-shelf acrylic optics, a couple of discreet high-brightness LEDs with wired leads you can run in constant-voltage mode (you only need a series resistor), and also a couple of the really modern SMT LEDs on a PCB and crude heatsink that you can run at up to 1 AMP and will burn your eyes out. I can "cobble" you a current mode driver for these later in the week - but you could just run them in voltage mode with a series resistor so long as you don't leave them on for too long - just to see what they can do - you might be amazed.

I'll take some pics too - once I can fin my doggone camera.

Kanoodle
01-26-2010, 04:15 AM
Yea - well do that when you can - as the "mechanical form factor" is the very first criteria to be considered in any design - this defines the size and orientation of the components used to satisfy the design parameters.

After that - the "price point" is next - when the mechanical and electrical parameters are set then the components chosen - the assembly (labor) might also be "guesstimated" and we will know whether or not we have a viable product concept to continue on to the prototype stage.

Incidentally - I did already get some stuff from work to send you to play with if you want it - these are things used in various projects in the prototyping stages that were paid for by our customers and long since forgotten and relegated to the "junk-heap".

Among these parts are a few "generic" off-the-shelf acrylic optics, a couple of discreet high-brightness LEDs with wired leads you can run in constant-voltage mode (you only need a series resistor), and also a couple of the really modern SMT LEDs on a PCB and crude heatsink that you can run at up to 1 AMP and will burn your eyes out. I can "cobble" you a current mode driver for these later in the week - but you could just run them in voltage mode with a series resistor so long as you don't leave them on for too long - just to see what they can do - you might be amazed.

I'll take some pics too - once I can fin my doggone camera.


I would love to "mess around" with a few LED's some time. Is there a way you could send me a so called care package if you have extra from that scrap heap?

klapa
01-26-2010, 05:13 AM
I would love to "mess around" with a few LED's some time. Is there a way you could send me a so called care package if you have extra from that scrap heap?

Well - the short answer is "yup" - but of course "supplies are limited" so I can't feed the world - but there are enough around for more than one person here.

Still - everybody wants to fool around with some stuff - yet not everyone has a product idea and a market that might yield mutual business.

Still - even if there is no business opportunity - everybody has information, experience, life, love, and even "parts" to share - it is all dependent on the "live and let live" - and on the "give and take".

My mind is always open ....

I guess what I mean here is that Shadow not only has a possible new business opportunity for me to break into - Shadow also has maybe at least ten technical articles here that help me and many others to keep their cars running - so Shadow has some little bit of "dibs" on the junkpile and the "mental library" - new business or not.

That's what I mean by "give and take".

RedRkt01
01-26-2010, 02:31 PM
Yea - well do that when you can - as the "mechanical form factor" is the very first criteria to be considered in any design - this defines the size and orientation of the components used to satisfy the design parameters.

After that - the "price point" is next - when the mechanical and electrical parameters are set then the components chosen - the assembly (labor) might also be "guesstimated" and we will know whether or not we have a viable product concept to continue on to the prototype stage.

Incidentally - I did already get some stuff from work to send you to play with if you want it - these are things used in various projects in the prototyping stages that were paid for by our customers and long since forgotten and relegated to the "junk-heap".

Among these parts are a few "generic" off-the-shelf acrylic optics, a couple of discreet high-brightness LEDs with wired leads you can run in constant-voltage mode (you only need a series resistor), and also a couple of the really modern SMT LEDs on a PCB and crude heatsink that you can run at up to 1 AMP and will burn your eyes out. I can "cobble" you a current mode driver for these later in the week - but you could just run them in voltage mode with a series resistor so long as you don't leave them on for too long - just to see what they can do - you might be amazed.

I'll take some pics too - once I can fin my doggone camera.

Sounds like a plan. And I love when a plan comes together.

Kanoodle
01-26-2010, 02:50 PM
Well - the short answer is "yup" - but of course "supplies are limited" so I can't feed the world - but there are enough around for more than one person here.

Still - everybody wants to fool around with some stuff - yet not everyone has a product idea and a market that might yield mutual business.

Still - even if there is no business opportunity - everybody has information, experience, life, love, and even "parts" to share - it is all dependent on the "live and let live" - and on the "give and take".

My mind is always open ....

I guess what I mean here is that Shadow not only has a possible new business opportunity for me to break into - Shadow also has maybe at least ten technical articles here that help me and many others to keep their cars running - so Shadow has some little bit of "dibs" on the junkpile and the "mental library" - new business or not.

That's what I mean by "give and take".

I see :) Well take of Shadow first of course. If I even get just one of those super bright Blind you LED's I'd be happy :)

klapa
01-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Sounds like a plan. And I love when a plan comes together.


OK - well PM me with your address at some point and I'll send ya the stuff - it'll all fit in a USPS envelope so the shipping won't break the bank here and maybe later I'll buy some parts from Red Rocket and you can credit that shipping - else no worries.

Still lookin' for that camera...

RedRkt01
01-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Okay, sounds great.