PDA

View Full Version : Wanted to show you guys this...



Freshnicity
01-10-2010, 01:35 AM
Future plans for my MR2.

http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno/tgovender435.jpg

I mean, REALLY future plans, just wanted to show you guys.

Big turbo + Nitrous + 1.6L = Greatness.

i like the power band of that set up. At highway speed ill be making the same amount of power as my stock SC engine, which is great for gas milage, same for city driving.

wouldnt mind the lag on building boost for that kind of powerband.

Whats your guys thoughts on this?

Oh i dont think ill be looking for that kind of power, would be great, but to start im looking for around 280-300whp.

MrWOT
01-10-2010, 01:50 AM
Put a ct26 on it.

Freshnicity
01-10-2010, 02:53 AM
lol why?

Think im going to start with a T25 or T28 from an SR20 engine.

You serious about the Ct26 or kidding?

85gtsblackman
01-10-2010, 04:33 AM
big turbo on a small displacement engine with no lowend, ehhh am i the only one seeing a problem here

Hookecho
01-10-2010, 04:58 AM
that's what nitrous is for. make up for lag.

Freshnicity
01-10-2010, 05:27 AM
that's what nitrous is for. make up for lag.

That and add to the overall top end power.

Think about it. With with the lag i can city drive and highway drive without boosting. I wouldnt mind the lag in that sense.

With a smaller turbo like a T25/28 ill have a lot less lag but wont make nearly as much power

Sang
01-10-2010, 06:18 AM
With with the lag i can city drive and highway drive without boosting. I wouldnt mind the lag in that sense.

I cringe every time I read a post like this.

1. Highway driving is 99% constant throttle, steady state. You wont be boosting whether you have a GT6041 or a dinky TD04.
2. A "laggier" turbo ends up requiring MORE throttle to make the same power at LOW rpms (read: daily driving conditions) as opposed to a quicker spooling turbo that has a better transient response and low-mid range power. So whether you live with a crappy low end, or rev it out higher where the power is at, you'll most likely have the same if not more fuel consumption than otherwise.
3. Boost is dependent on throttle %/load. You can easily "stay out of boost" with a smaller turbo simply by throttle modulation.

Please don't try and justify a large turbo by making it sound like it's going to help at all during daily driving. Just say you want a bigger turbo because you want that type of power band and could careless how it'll drive in day to day traffic.

joe's gt
01-10-2010, 06:48 AM
Yeah dude, you'd have to keep that thing revving pretty high to get any fun out of it. I know NOS is a huge help with lag, but I don't have any personal experience in a car that had it and trying to tune it in isn't easy either. Tuning the transition from off boost to boost is hard enough as it is.

Freshnicity
01-10-2010, 08:08 AM
I cringe every time I read a post like this.

1. Highway driving is 99% constant throttle, steady state. You wont be boosting whether you have a GT6041 or a dinky TD04.
2. A "laggier" turbo ends up requiring MORE throttle to make the same power at LOW rpms (read: daily driving conditions) as opposed to a quicker spooling turbo that has a better transient response and low-mid range power. So whether you live with a crappy low end, or rev it out higher where the power is at, you'll most likely have the same if not more fuel consumption than otherwise.
3. Boost is dependent on throttle %/load. You can easily "stay out of boost" with a smaller turbo simply by throttle modulation.

Please don't try and justify a large turbo by making it sound like it's going to help at all during daily driving. Just say you want a bigger turbo because you want that type of power band and could careless how it'll drive in day to day traffic.

i said from the first post that i want that type of powerband. i could careless on how high i need to rev it to make the power.

Im not justifying anything. Thats the kind of set up i rather run then running a smaller turbo. T25 isnt going to flow nearly as much air as one of those larger turbos, wont make near as much power and will choke out at the higher RPMs. Cool thing is the turbo im looking to run should use the same flange as the T-25..we'll see.

Joe I probably wouldnt tune it. Would probably have it dyno tuned by the local shop that has one. Going to run MS and thats what they specialize in.

Like i said, future plans. Getting a T25 off of a friend doing an SR20 swap in his 240 so we'll see how that goes.

The other 4AG engine made nice numbers as well. But on a 20v Blacktop with GZE internals

http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno/epelayo436.jpg

Sang
01-10-2010, 08:28 AM
FWIW - Both graphs are showing about hte same amount of uncorrected power. First one is at about 380 at 7500 converted back to imperial and 1.1CF, second using a TCF of 1.16

MrWOT
01-10-2010, 09:24 AM
I was serious

Freshnicity
01-10-2010, 09:49 AM
FWIW - Both graphs are showing about hte same amount of uncorrected power. First one is at about 380 at 7500 converted back to imperial and 1.1CF, second using a TCF of 1.16


Alright you got to explain. TCF...? this is a measurement of what exactly?

and as for the 380 at 7500, are you saying thats the actual WHP?

1.1 Cubif Feet? Got to explain a little more, not sure on what your talking about.

WOT- why the CT26? lol

Sang
01-10-2010, 10:07 AM
Graph one is using a correction factor of 1.10 and is measured in NM. It's making ~295ft-lbs at 7500 with that correction factor. Uncorrected it's about 268 ft-lbs.

TCF is a separate correction factor that the dyno operator inputs to factor in "drivetrain losses". A 1.16 TCF means they added an additional 16% to the measured number to get what hte graph says. 1.00 would be uncorrected. Also note that the graph is setup for SAE correction, but didn't list the correction factor so I left it be since exact numbers aren't really comparable between dyno's.

KM
01-10-2010, 04:52 PM
The second one is kind of like my new project.
I'm not modding this 20v silvertop, since it's so reliable.

So I'm building one of those 20v blacktop head on a gze-internalled block.

MrWOT
01-10-2010, 05:34 PM
It will do what you want, easy to find, easy to rebuild.

Freshnicity
01-10-2010, 06:47 PM
Graph one is using a correction factor of 1.10 and is measured in NM. It's making ~295ft-lbs at 7500 with that correction factor. Uncorrected it's about 268 ft-lbs.

TCF is a separate correction factor that the dyno operator inputs to factor in "drivetrain losses". A 1.16 TCF means they added an additional 16% to the measured number to get what hte graph says. 1.00 would be uncorrected. Also note that the graph is setup for SAE correction, but didn't list the correction factor so I left it be since exact numbers aren't really comparable between dyno's.

Alright, i think i understand.

WOT- Not sure how I would make it work. Would have to get maybe the ebay header they sell for this engine and have a new flange welded on for the CT26. isnt the CT26 an even smaller turbo then the t25?

MrWOT
01-10-2010, 11:26 PM
The CT26 has a good compressor, would be a great match to a 4a.

Ricksta
01-11-2010, 05:11 AM
i wouldnt mix nitrous and boost. everytime i seem to venture over to mr2oc i end up seein someone blowin thier shit up from boost creep

Freshnicity
01-11-2010, 05:47 AM
The CT26 has a good compressor, would be a great match to a 4a.

I was looking at the compressor map for the CT26. Would make a good match from what it looks like. Whats the limit on the amount of boost you can run on the CT26? 17psi? And what would be a better choice the Twin Entry or the single?

Ricksta- Ive seen a few of those threads. Ive seen a few stock 4AGZE engines running a 50 dry shot. Looks like a lot of fun. Was searching around and saw a lot of 3SGTE engines running nitrous and making great power, right before they blow on the dyno lol.

MrWOT
01-11-2010, 06:34 AM
With a good IC, 18psi is as fast as I would push it.

joe's gt
01-11-2010, 07:45 AM
I was looking at the compressor map for the CT26. Would make a good match from what it looks like. Whats the limit on the amount of boost you can run on the CT26? 17psi? And what would be a better choice the Twin Entry or the single?

Ricksta- Ive seen a few of those threads. Ive seen a few stock 4AGZE engines running a 50 dry shot. Looks like a lot of fun. Was searching around and saw a lot of 3SGTE engines running nitrous and making great power, right before they blow on the dyno lol.

Seriously dude, I have read so many bad things about trying to tune in NOS as an antilag. That transitional range tends to be where things blow up.

Freshnicity
01-11-2010, 05:03 PM
With a good IC, 18psi is as fast as I would push it.

Alright thanks for the information.

Joe ive seen a lot of issues with it too. But theres a lot of people out there running systems like that with success also. I wont be slapping a bottle onto it or any other car of mine, not right now at least. just like that powerband.

going to start small, and work up to whatever it ends up becoming. Ct26 didnt seem like a good idea when i first thought about swapping over to a turbocharger, but it might be a possiblity.

Think to start im going to run T25 on stock electronics at 10psi and see what the AFRs look like on stock electronics. Then if needed ill move to larger injectors, the Walbro pump and possibly AEM FIC. The T25 is pretty much right there for me to get my hands on for next to nothing, and i sold my CT26

joe's gt
01-12-2010, 02:27 AM
Think to start im going to run T25 on stock electronics at 10psi and see what the AFRs look like on stock electronics. Then if needed ill move to larger injectors, the Walbro pump and possibly AEM FIC. The T25 is pretty much right there for me to get my hands on for next to nothing, and i sold my CT26

Wut have others shown the limits to be? That would be the easiest way to go imo than trying to do your own trial and error. I would just do the setup you want from the start and not spend the money on constant transitioning.

Freshnicity
01-12-2010, 02:32 AM
Wut have others shown the limits to be? That would be the easiest way to go imo than trying to do your own trial and error. I would just do the setup you want from the start and not spend the money on constant transitioning.

10psi from what ive been able to find on the T25 on stock electronics. If i do the T25, which has been done before i can upgrade to a turbo like the T28(not sure if it uses a different flange or not) or the gt2871r

After doing some hard thinking on it though. Dont think it would be the smartest choice for me to do this right off the bat. Ive seen a few other SC's in the city, two others and thats it. Think it would be dumb of me to turbocharge this engine an possibly blow it, and do something stupid, like wreck it(cant put it past myself). I want to swap it to turbo for sure, just not sure when?

Think maybe building some else first would be a better idea. Maybe get the MR2 running and broken in after the rebuild, if all goes smooth and it runs good after the rebuild maybe to a 3s swap into the Celica? Celica = A lot less value money wise

joe's gt
01-12-2010, 06:34 AM
I would get some engine building experience on a basically stock motor so the possible mistakes are less painful on the wallet. I would run it near stock (as in nothing that requires more fuel or different engine management), then go to whatever set up you wanted (hopefully not changing the internals).

extremeskillz
01-12-2010, 01:47 PM
that's what nitrous is for. make up for lag.

But you only have so much nitrous. I would say stick with the ct26 or perhaps the ct20b.

Freshnicity
01-12-2010, 02:32 PM
When im rebuilding this engine its all 100% stock. Need it running. And even when I swap over to a turbo I wont need to change internals. Its getting OEM O/S pistons/main an rod bearings, rods etc etc..From what ive been told stock bottom end is good for 300-400...wont be reaching either of those.

Venus dropped there prices on 3s swaps as well...1000 for ST215...1200 for St205...1000 for ST185..complete swaps.