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CriScO
11-25-2009, 06:28 AM
A buddy of mine has decided to look for a sixth gen, or a seventh if he can find it in his price range. I won't let him get an ST for the former or GT for the latter.

With the sixth gen I know what to look at engine wise, but are there any interior/exterior issues I should look out for? Any electronics that crap out or pieces that commonly rust?

Is there anything to look for with the 2ZZ besides the lift bolts and whether Luni or Bugs have misshifted it? :hehe:

Murgatroy
11-25-2009, 04:06 PM
The 6th Gen ST liftback was all win.

You are a fool to steer him away.

METDeath
11-25-2009, 04:12 PM
Yeah, the ST hatch is win for a daily driver. Plus you can 20V+6-speed swap it.

Oh, and the 7th gen, if he gets a GTS has to be a manual since the auto GTS is slower than the auto GT.

GT4SOM
11-25-2009, 05:01 PM
Screw the 6th gen ST. 20v is full of weak sauce if you look at the bang for the buck.

CriScO
11-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Sorry guys, I've never been a 7A fan. If he ever does want to do anything to it, I want the bay ready for an S block. The torque of the 5S is going to be better in the winter too.

Plus if he ever blows the motor I've got me an S54 and some rev 2 cams. :sneak: :hehe:

MCcelica
11-25-2009, 11:28 PM
Actually, as you said for being misshifted it. One of the issues I had with learning how to drive mine is if the previous owner hasn't taken care of it, the tranny can be a bit touchy. Likes to grind if you do stuff wrong and/or its not 100%. Part of mine is partially associated with recent clutch failure. Though the clutch has been replaced, I'm informed it still has a few of those tendencies. It does have a ridiculous amount of miles on it for a 2000+ vehicle though. Main thing with those is, make sure you're in 1st... not reverse. Otherwise if it sounds/drives solid, and appears to be solid, just like you look at any other car, should be good to go. Hopefully the previous owner has detailed records including lift bolt maintenance. Wouldn't count on it though.

The Captain
11-25-2009, 11:34 PM
6th gen. Convert to AWD. The end.

Kanoodle
11-26-2009, 01:17 AM
Is there anything to look for with the 2ZZ besides the lift bolts and whether Luni or Bugs have misshifted it? :hehe:
You should add baby bear to that list...

CriScO
11-26-2009, 02:11 AM
Actually, as you said for being misshifted it. One of the issues I had with learning how to drive mine is if the previous owner hasn't taken care of it, the tranny can be a bit touchy. Likes to grind if you do stuff wrong and/or its not 100%. Part of mine is partially associated with recent clutch failure. Though the clutch has been replaced, I'm informed it still has a few of those tendencies.
Reminds me of one of my employees, who bought an '01 GT a while back. He was having issues shifting, and asked the neighbor he bought it from how the clutch was.

His response? "Should be brand new, I never used it." :eek:

John, I agree. He won't have that kind of extra cash though. :(

Kanoodle, driving a Honda is punishment enough. We don't need to give him shit for it. :hehe:

VikingJZ
11-26-2009, 05:02 AM
Clean Hondas are win!

An ST sixth gen makes for a great DD

burnyd
11-26-2009, 05:05 AM
The 6th Gen ST liftback was all win.

You are a fool to steer him away.


x500000!!

Those 7afes will not and cannot die.

I would trade my camry in for one if I could find a nice one in a heart beat.

they do not make much power at all but there really reliable.

Back when I had to do a ton of driving I put 40k on this car in 2 years. All I did was change the oil / put new tires on it... if you can find one for a dd I would get one.

Freshnicity
11-26-2009, 06:07 AM
6th Gen ST + 20v BT with the 6spd + Boost = Win

presure2
11-26-2009, 12:24 PM
the 6th gen st makes a great daily, the gt makes a better one.
i still dont get these 20v swaps.
why swap an engine that dont even have 150whp?
3rd gen 3sgte or bust in a 6th gen IMO.

Kanoodle
11-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Kanoodle, driving a Honda is punishment enough. We don't need to give him shit for it. :hehe:

Do you know why he has that RSX? Because he miss shifted his 7th gen and it had lifter noise afterwards, traded it at the dealer for his RSX.

Kanoodle
11-26-2009, 02:45 PM
the 6th gen st makes a great daily, the gt makes a better one.
i still dont get these 20v swaps.
why swap an engine that dont even have 150whp?
3rd gen 3sgte or bust in a 6th gen IMO.
Here is what one of you guys should do. Get a 7afe take the ge head off a MKI mr2 or a bt head and throw it on there, I looked into the 7agte awhile back and know the heads are interchangable.

presure2
11-26-2009, 04:55 PM
been done by a guy over on 6gc. IIRC he put ~14k into the motor, and made close to 400whp with it, with a rough tune.

85gtsblackman
11-28-2009, 05:03 PM
i like my 6th gen st coupe

id rather have a 6th gen than a 7th for 3 main reasons

relability
comfortable
6th gen isnt butt ugly

Luni
11-28-2009, 11:33 PM
LOL at comfortable and reliable.

2zzs are pretty damn reliable, just lift bolts on early revisions really. Theres a couple other minor things, but funny enough, the 1zzs are crap compared to 2zzs in the long run.

7th gens have way nicer interiors than 6th gens. Theyre lighter. They have better brakes, they are faster. They hold their value better. I get 30+ mpg in my 7th gen, most 5SFEs dont do that and have 180hp either or rev to 8k doing it.

Only reason to go 6th gen IMO, is if you can find one that is clean and relatively cheap, or if you have aspirations to do a 3SGTE swap. 7th gens are better cars IMO.

And theyre actually retarded stupid easy to work on.

MCcelica
11-29-2009, 03:54 AM
I'm actually with Luni. The interior on the 7th gen is epic win in comparison to a 6gc. Its a lot roomier and easier to sleep in... don't ask how I know.

The 2zz is definitely a good engine as well. Mine has just shy of 180k miles, and hardly any of those miles (at least for the most recent 90k) were given to 'er in a... nice fashion. She's a testament of reliability in comparison to my 6gc. That's probably also a reflection of the previous owners though.

85gtsblackman
11-29-2009, 04:29 AM
no offence but cannon really didnt maintain my stx, at all, and its still running fine with 190,000 miles on it

i did the math before i fixed anything on this car and on the way home from georgia i got 42mpg highway


and a 2nd gen celica looks better than the door stop with wheels, and if i wanted a reliable high revving daily driver id get a prelude or a integra


oh well your friend should buy a 3rd gen, buy nobody here other than 4 people like those


oh and luni my st is lighter than your gts
your gts is faster
but im not on my 2nd engine :duh:

fixed


6th gen. Convert to RWD. The end.



3rd gen 3sgte or bust in a 6th gen IMO.

you forgot about the swapped v6 guys

mlwmlw
11-29-2009, 03:44 PM
the curb weight for a 94 ST is 2400 lbs. while the curb weight for a 2004 celica is 2425 (another source says 2500) lbs. I don't think that the 25 lbs will make a big difference, nor would that 100 lbs.

the newer celicas have less mass in front of their front wheels than our generation (1994's). THis arguably gives better turn in.

our cars have a comparable potential, but less aftermarket support in getting there. the last gen celicas have parts available left & right to make them really, really fast for a 4 cyl FWD car.

presure2
11-29-2009, 10:08 PM
you forgot about the swapped v6 guys


show me a V6 swap thats a bolt in, that makes 300whp with intake and exhaust mods, and ill mention the v6 guys..lol

85gtsblackman
11-30-2009, 01:25 AM
i guess your right manny, ive always been one of those guys that if i have over 250whp i want it either to all 4 wheels or the rear wheels

mlk, you are right on that but the guy's friend wants a daily, its been pretty much proven that for daily driving use, basicly non racing, that low end is key.

so while yes a 7th gen is faster and revs to a million rpm, do you really want to be winding the the out to 5 or 6 grand due to a lack of torque at low rpm

this is why i could lug the 3rd gen around and shift at 2500 rpm, and it would pull hard still
damn i miss that

mlwmlw
11-30-2009, 11:33 PM
yeah very true.... I shift my 94 GT at 2.5-3k depending on what gear I am switching into. I just don't like the power drop off after 4.5 k RPM's, that's where all the higher HP cars pass me, at 4-5k in 2nd gear :(
You can get those higher HP 4 cylinders off the line by almost half a car though! (ex. 90's eclipse 4 cyl M/T) but the lead doesn't last long.

Luni
12-01-2009, 01:19 AM
Bah, I drive my celica like a pussy, and I have no issues getting around.

But if I need it, I can always drop gear, hit above 6k and hit lift and be fine.

And again, these engines dont seem to have a whole lot of longevity problems. I guess it depends on what you want. If you want low revving, "torquey" and prefer the look of the 6th gen, get the 6th gen. If you want a funner higher revving engine, lighter more nimble, and more "updated" then get the 7th gen.

Things that are awesome about the 7th gens. The gauges win. The headlights are the shit. Not the looks, thats arbitrary, but the projectors are awesome. The fog lights are awesome. The cockpit feel is awesome, the seats are great, they get good gas mileage, have good brakes and handling.

I dunno. Id take my 7th gen GTS over a 6th gen anyday. But I already own an MR2. I dont want a FWD turbo car. My GTS is quick enough for a FWD for me. If I wanna go fast, I get in my MR2. Thats just ME.

MCcelica
12-01-2009, 04:29 AM
Aaaannnddd I'm still with Luni.

CriScO
12-01-2009, 07:05 AM
I will admit I'm pushing for the sixth gen. They're my favorite body design. Ones that are Super Red II make me jizz in my pants.

Even without that, I'll be the go-to guy when something goes wrong, so that impacts my suggestions. Like Rob said, you can almost jump in that engine bay and dance around. There's so much more room compared to the bays of 4th, 5th, and 7th gens. It is a slight part of why I lean toward the 5S too. It's a bored out map sensored version of what I'm used to.

My buddy's living about five hours west of me right now, on the other side of the continental divide. He's planning to move back to this side around February. So I imagine he won't be activily looking 'til then.

Keep the debate going though, all of your insights are helpful. :)

Oh, and Joe, I did suggest a third gen. He's been driving an '83 22R pickup the last few years. Tried to use the engine similarities as a selling point, because that pickup was formerly used as a business vehicle(I think it was a tile layer if I remember the lettering left on the side that was under vinyl) and he's the second of my friends to have it and they both beat the shit out it. He just wants something newer.

85gtsblackman
12-01-2009, 07:46 AM
tell him to get a loaded 85 gts instead of the "race package" one i got

MCcelica
12-01-2009, 03:45 PM
Chris. I'll Pick you up from azz's pants in my 7th gen, then drop you back off in the 6th gen. See what you like better. Its a side by side comparo just for you!

Idiot Stick
12-01-2009, 05:59 PM
Bah, I drive my celica like a pussy, and I have no issues getting around.

But if I need it, I can always drop gear, hit above 6k and hit lift and be fine.

And again, these engines dont seem to have a whole lot of longevity problems. I guess it depends on what you want. If you want low revving, "torquey" and prefer the look of the 6th gen, get the 6th gen. If you want a funner higher revving engine, lighter more nimble, and more "updated" then get the 7th gen.

Things that are awesome about the 7th gens. The gauges win. The headlights are the shit. Not the looks, thats arbitrary, but the projectors are awesome. The fog lights are awesome. The cockpit feel is awesome, the seats are great, they get good gas mileage, have good brakes and handling.

I dunno. Id take my 7th gen GTS over a 6th gen anyday. But I already own an MR2. I dont want a FWD turbo car. My GTS is quick enough for a FWD for me. If I wanna go fast, I get in my MR2. Thats just ME.


I agree with this 100%

my 7th gen is an epic DD. And my Mr2 is an Epic go-fast.