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View Full Version : 89 MR SC...Oooo Shes Ugly



Freshnicity
10-22-2009, 09:36 AM
Ok..I said before, picked up this 89 SC for $750, has a blown HG, im just now starting to rebuild the engine, and then the body work, then the upgrades

Pics of the car when I got it

http://img199.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture028d.jpg

Did some work today, not much due to time restraints but heres what it is.

Too Full..hmmm
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1305/picture029ne.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/picture029ne.jpg/)http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/picture029ne.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img18/picture029ne.jpg/1/)

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6037/picture031m.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/picture031m.jpg/)http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/picture031m.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img245/picture031m.jpg/1/)

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2856/picture032e.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/picture032e.jpg/)http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/picture032e.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img245/picture032e.jpg/1/)



the oil was nice and black..but chunky...reallllllllly chunky.

I got some work on my hands

Will be pulling the head this/next week and taking pictures as I go..the cams look pretty decent.

basically im replacing all the gaskets/seals from the HG up, and then the Rod Bearings also. Think im going to do the bearings by dropping the pan instead of removing the entire engine.

Freshnicity
10-22-2009, 09:37 AM
The coolant resviour has oil in it..and all the lines going to and from and in it.

The pic where the rad cap goes..yeah..bad.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4830/picture034fk.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/picture034fk.jpg/)http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/picture034fk.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img406/picture034fk.jpg/1/)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/189/picture033yn.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/picture033yn.jpg/)http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/picture033yn.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img18/picture033yn.jpg/1/)

david in germany
10-22-2009, 10:29 AM
Very nice find, I am almost jelious! :bowdown:
She does need lots of love though.

andy
10-22-2009, 05:05 PM
goodness thats a oil/water fest

joe's gt
10-22-2009, 10:30 PM
Cooo! You got a project on your hands. Just dream of rwd greatness when you hit frustrations.

Let me know if you got anything that you need help with. I'll come up and help you out. We still got to go to Willies foo!!! Lets set a day NOOOWWW!

Freshnicity
10-23-2009, 04:29 AM
Cooo! You got a project on your hands. Just dream of rwd greatness when you hit frustrations.

Let me know if you got anything that you need help with. I'll come up and help you out. We still got to go to Willies foo!!! Lets set a day NOOOWWW!

For sure. Just let me know when you are free man. Going to be pulling the head starting this coming weekend/week. Have to download the manual online and find a way to print it for cheap, since haynes doesnt have a book for this year.

Did a little more looking around. I can drop the pan with ease(10 minutes flat) with just removing the exhaust. And theres a lot of room, so i think im going to put in new Rod Bearings from underneith the car while im doing all of this.

More progress with pics this weekend.

Freshnicity
10-25-2009, 06:48 AM
Little progress today, really taking it slow due to I havent been able to purchase any of the replacement parts yet, so dont want it too disassembled before I get them.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3340/1001540v.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/1001540v.jpg/)
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1039/1001541d.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/1001541d.jpg/)
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3548/1001542kq.th.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/1001542kq.jpg/)
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2016/1001544.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/i/1001544.jpg/)

Check out that coolant neck, not cool.

Freshnicity
10-25-2009, 11:47 PM
And more.

That Super charger is a real pain to get out in that cramped engine bay. Looks to be in good condition though, so we shall see.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3382/picture036e.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/picture036e.jpg/)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9108/picture035s.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/picture035s.jpg/)

Next week is body work, fuel rail, intake manifold, then the head.

Ryan
10-27-2009, 02:25 AM
Looking good bro. I am happy for you. Keep up the work man.

joe's gt
11-02-2009, 04:55 AM
oh Fresh, I feel so bad for you. I'll let him explain...

Berg
11-02-2009, 04:05 PM
Hey alright another Mk1 MR2.

I'm sure you are well aware, but if not, I recommend you check these sites out:
http://www.twosrus.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=cfdceee5738f913118ea154ae588fadd

http://www.kbox.ca/catalog/index.php/cPath/39_64

You'll be able to find many of the odd seals and stuff there, the first site even has new rear wheel arches available for repairing the body!

I'll be watching this thread.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Hey alright another Mk1 MR2.

I'm sure you are well aware, but if not, I recommend you check these sites out:
http://www.twosrus.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=cfdceee5738f913118ea154ae588fadd

http://www.kbox.ca/catalog/index.php/cPath/39_64

You'll be able to find many of the odd seals and stuff there, the first site even has new rear wheel arches available for repairing the body!

I'll be watching this thread.

Cheers,
Berg

Thanks Berg, and thanks for the info on the sites. Actually ordering some parts from Twosrus soon, didnt know about Kbox though, thanks.

Freshnicity
11-02-2009, 05:32 PM
So Joe came out Sunday to help with the MR2, was a lot of help, we got a lot done Sunday. We also found out that i need another head :(. The camshaft bearing caps, as well as the camshaft journals are scared pretty bad. On the intake cam the oil was nice and chocolate milk like from the blown HG. There was also small parts of some hard debri in there. Check out the scaring.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8975/picture037tb.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/picture037tb.jpg/)
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/203/picture038us.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/picture038us.jpg/)
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9286/picture039v.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/picture039v.jpg/)

Hard to see, but if you look closely, you can see where the bottom of caps in the head are scared pretty bad, as well as that cap on the intake side that im holding.

But, refuse to give up on this thing, already additiced and havent even fired her up yet. Ill be purchasing a head in the next few weeks when i get paid again, and going from there.

Also going to be purchasing a early NA Large Port head. The early NA cams have better lift and duration then the later GZE cams, and will work fine. So its not a total loss. There plenty and easy to come by for cheap. I get a different head + better cams which = more power.

NA cams are 240/7.56mm
later GZE cams are 232/7.1mm

So ill be going with the early NA head/cams.

Berg
11-02-2009, 05:49 PM
Well thats something I didn't know. I thought that the NA and GZE for big port heads were the same, and that things didn't change until the small port heads came out. I guess you aren't interested in a small port head then?

Cheers,
Berg

joe's gt
11-02-2009, 06:35 PM
yeah, those pictures its hard to see the damage. Some of those cam caps had a hella deep groove down the middle. It was ugly. Didn't know about those differences, so its probably a blessing in disguise. Better now than later down the road. I'd love to come down again to see what we're workin with once you get that new head. Hopefully the internals will be all good, especially since the engine spun pretty easily.

Can any of you move a car with a ratchet, cuz Fresh can ;)

yes, we were stupid and spun the engine with the car in gear and Will used his musczles to move that bad boy with one ratchet. We were wondering why turning the crank was so difficult w/out the spark plugs in. lol

Freshnicity
11-02-2009, 06:50 PM
Well thats something I didn't know. I thought that the NA and GZE for big port heads were the same, and that things didn't change until the small port heads came out. I guess you aren't interested in a small port head then?

Cheers,
Berg

No sorry Berg, going to stick with the Large Port. Will be converting the engine to turbo a little later on, and I think the Large Port will be a better choice, plus its just easier this way.

And you are right, the heads are exactly the same, the cams are the only difference :).


And yeah, I just about ran myself over by simply turning the crank pully haha, funny stuff. After the car was in N the engine turned over great.

Berg
11-02-2009, 07:47 PM
No sorry Berg, going to stick with the Large Port. Will be converting the engine to turbo a little later on, and I think the Large Port will be a better choice, plus its just easier this way.


That's my plan too. I have the latest version of the 4A-GZE sitting in the garage waiting to go under the knife. I also have an N/A big port head and non EGR intake manifold. The plan is to have the block machined and rebuild the bottom end. I still haven't decided on compression ratio yet. The block has the nice under piston oil squirters which depending on when your engine was build might have them too. The head is to be sent off with the intake for port maching, polishing, oversized valves and new cams. Mount the head to the block, put on a turbo kit, W2A intercooler and run the whole thing with a megasquirt.

You are right, the big port head is generally accepted as better for turbo applications. Now you just have to decide whether or not to keep the T-VIS. I'm sure there are several discussions on that. :wiggle:



And you are right, the heads are exactly the same, the cams are the only difference :).

Don't be so quick to call me right, I thought even the cams were the same.

Cheers,
Berg

andy
11-02-2009, 08:17 PM
im keepin tvis, but lowering the engagement.

Freshnicity
11-03-2009, 05:21 AM
Im ditching it. havent found any real evidence on whether or not it helps, so to keep it simple, its going.

Freshnicity
11-05-2009, 04:17 AM
Ok, so im using the head. My teacher said the camshaft journals and camshaft bearing caps are fine with the scaring that is on it(Master Tech at Toyota and teacher of my engine class).

So I wont be purchasing another head until the car is running. Im going to run with it.

Heres some pics of the recent body work.

So my camera isnt the best. And i fail at taking good pictures. Ill have my girlfriend help me next time shes over.

But you can see a difference. This is experimenting with rubbing compound.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2508/picture044z.th.jpg (http://img267.imageshack.us/i/picture044z.jpg/)
Untouched, this is what the pillar(and whole car) looked like before i did it.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9367/picture040oi.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/picture040oi.jpg/)
Pillar now, along with the roof/t tops.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4960/picture041cs.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/picture041cs.jpg/)
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8528/picture042z.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/picture042z.jpg/)
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3415/picture043wn.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/picture043wn.jpg/)

See the different in the hood? lol this is all quick working with rubbing compound. Starting to shape up

joe's gt
11-05-2009, 04:21 AM
Hey Will, you could probably get better results if you color sand with 1200-1500 grit first and then buff it with a compound and finish it off with a polish. It still looks great tho.

Freshnicity
11-05-2009, 04:27 AM
Hmm, think your right Joe.

So i color sand it? whats that? wont that hurt the paint?

And then buff it out with compound?

Ive been using "bon a mi" i think its called, and just rubbing it in with water.

andy
11-05-2009, 04:37 AM
it takes the top layer off the paint, use a block, not your hand. panel at a time. buff with your rubbing compound then polish then wax. will shine like your butt.

Berg
11-05-2009, 03:33 PM
Colour sanding will do wonders, but it takes time and you have to be carefull.

The first thing I would do is get a spare body panel from the wreckers to practice with. That way if you make a mistake, you wont have ruined the paint job.

Colour sanding works best with a clear coat/basecoat paint job, but will work with a single stage as well (just have to be more careful). When you used rubbing compound did the rag change colour to that of the car? If so then you are working with the colour coat and not clear coat.

First thing to do is clean the car. You will want to use a wax and grease remove to take off any previously applied wax and fingerprints and the like. Once clean you will be working with paint, but remember, the protective qualities of the wax are now gone, so if the car is going to be exposed to the elements for a long time while you do this you may want to only do one panel at a time.

Next is the sanding itself. You will need some wet/dry sanpaper (available wherever auto body supplies are sold) fairly high grit (no less than 1200), a bucket of water, a hose (preferably but not absolutely necessary), some soap, and a semisoft sanding block.

Fill the bucket with water and put a few drops of soap in it. Cut/tear your sandpaper to the size needed for the block. Put these pieces in the water and let them soak for 15-30 minutes.

Take your first piece and wrap it around the block. Never sand using only your fingers, you will end up with an uneven finish. Use the hose to wet the panel you are working on. And finally start sanding. Use very little pressure. What you are doing is sanding the paint smooth. That is all you want to do. The soap in the water will help lubricate the paper and help prevent buildup in the paper. If you have the hose, constantly flushing the surface will wash away the sanding dust. Be very carefull, you just want to smooth the final surface of paint (or clearcoat), nothing more! Edges and corners are very easy to sand through! If you sand through a layer of paint/clearcoat, you will need to reapply it.

Once the panel is done it will look a little hazy, but should feel smooth. At this point you have to decide whether you want to use a higher grit paper (2000) or not. This is where the test piece can help, you can experiment with different grits to get the desired results.

The next step is buffing. You can do it by hand but using a power buffer is easier and quicker. Again be vary careful as you can burn through the paint. Using the buffer and some buffing/polishing compound, buff the panel you just sanded. This will remove the scratches from the sandpaper and should bring the paint back to a high shine.

Wash the panel again. You dont want any dust on it. Use the wax/grease remover to remove all the buffing compound that may be left behind.

Now that the panel is shiny and looking good it needs to be protected. Wax it! I recommend a full on carnuba wax (I like mother's brand, but whatever you like). I wouldn't bother with liquid wax, it just doesnt offer as much protection. Once the wax is on the panel should be flat, shiny, and protected.

Like I said, it is easy to get carried away and do damage to the paint, so be carefull. But do it right, and the results will be stunning. Get a practice panel that has edges and bends and learn with that first.

And of course, post the before, during and after pics.

Cheers,
Berg

Edit: You may want to protect the panels you are not working on or do them off the car (like the hood and headlight covers). Use a few layers of masking tape on the adjacent panels that you are not working on so you dont scratch them.

Freshnicity
11-08-2009, 12:42 AM
Thanks for all that info guys. After i do the rest of the car with rubbing compound ill give the color sanding and what not a try. Thanks a lot.

Little more progress.

Water pump pully is off.
Dizzy is out
heatshield is off. exhaust mani comes off tomorrow.

Crank pully comes off tomorrow.
rest of the timing belt etc.

think im going to do the rod bearings and main bearings before the HG.

Still have no $ for parts which sucks. :(

Anyone ever rolled in main bearings while the blocks still in the car.

Berg
11-09-2009, 04:13 PM
If you are breaking it down far enough to do main bearings I would recommend just taking the engine and tranny out of the car. It is more than likely that there is a buildup of oil and dirt on the oil filter side of the engine. With the engine out of the car you can clean it up and get new seals for everything (fairly inexpensive from kbox.ca). Things like new hoses for the oil cooler and o-rings forthe cooler sandwich plate. Also I like to paint my engines. I just use a rattle can duplicolour engine paint and clear coat. It makes the block surface easier to clean later down the road. I like lighter colours like red or blue because it makes it easier to spot leaks. If that's not your stile you can still benefit from a black paint with the ease of cleaning.

If you do remove your block, label all the mounts that aren't used and take an angle grinder and carefully round off the sharp edges. These cars don't offer much space to work in the egine bay, so removing sharp corners for work/maintenance down the road is always a good idea. If the sharp edge is used to line up and accessory or whatnot, leave it as is.

As for installing main bearing while the block is in the car, it is possible, but not fun. I've not done it on my MR2, but I have on my civic (first car 11 years ago) and in my first Celica. Need to take off the head and the oil pan. Then remove the caps from the big ends. Take the piston out the top of the block. Here you will need to get some calipers and measure the crank and the connecting rod big ends to figure out what size bearings you need. Once you have your bearing you can put the connecting rod beaing in and re-install the piston. There is an assembly grease you can get to hold the bearing in place as you install the piston. Once its in you can install the cap. Use plastigauge to ensure that you have the right clearance. If the plastigauge shows everything is good, get some assembly oil on there and put it together for good.

If it were me doing it I would pull it out of the car and at least have the cylinders rehoned and new rings put in. This would be the time to rebore the cylinders if they need it. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-09-2009, 05:44 PM
Thanks Berg, appreciate that.

I wont be able to pull the engine. Few reasons. I have no where to put it is the biggest one. When its on a stand, theres no place for it, no room in the garage, or anywhere for that matter. I can replace the connecting rod bearings without removing the pistons. And i think i can do the mains without removing the crank also, just need some info on the best way to do the mains.

Also, when I plastigauge the bearings,if the clearances are not in spec, whats the next step from there on out?

Berg
11-09-2009, 06:05 PM
If the clearance isnt to spec, you will have to order different sized bearings. Usually the best course of action is to remove the crank and have it machined at an engine shop. The engine shop can then get you the correct bearing sizes. However to maching the crank you will have to get it out of the engine, and you will have to at least remove the transmission for that.

I think the same would apply to the mains. you will need to get enough clearance between the block and the crank to get the mains in. The crank is a solid piece and to get the clearance near the back of the engine you might have to separate the transmission from the engine. Honestly, I don't know. I have never tried to replace main bearings with the engine in the car.

Besides, engines in the dinning room makes for good conversation starters....

Seriously though, I would try and get a buddy to let me use a corner of his/her garage or even rent a small self storage locker. A couple of sawhorses and an old door makes for a good workbench.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-09-2009, 06:27 PM
Thanks for the help Burg.

When thinking about it, think im going to slid in the new Connecting Rod Bearings and leave the mains alone. The bearings on the connecting rod are worked harder then the mains, so ill just replace those for now.

Ive looked for a place to have the engine while I work on it, but wasnt able to find one, thats why the head is coming off with the block still in the car. The head is about off btw, just waiting to buy the gasket set before i pull it.

almost thinking of just leaving the block alone completely. I dont know.

Berg
11-10-2009, 04:11 PM
Fair enough, I understand. It all comes down to time, money, and space.

Just be aware that in starting a project like this it can run away from you quick. When you pull the head off the engine check the deck on the block. Because the headgasket has blown it might have some damage. If that's the case you will have to have it re-surfaced or else the head gasket wont seal properly. If that is the case you will have to take it to an engine machine shop. Given that you have no space, there are some machine shops that are willing to hold onto your block until all the new parts needed for a rebuild come in. Usually though, you would have to order those parts through the shop. Good for you space concerns, maybe not so good for the money end of things. When everything comes in for a rebuild you can tell them that you will pick it all up on a Friday, have some friends come around and have it put together and back in the car on Sunday. For a little more money you could also just drop off the shortblock and pick it up rebuilt and assembled. It's a lot less fun, but it does solve the space issue and usually means that all the parts are clearance right (right sized bearings etc.).

Sorry, I realize I'm being a downer. I'll stop now. I would just hate to hear that you get everything back together only to have to pull it apart again.

If you choose to leave the block as is, at least spend some time with some varsol (or a can of spray cleaner) and take off the sump and clean as much as you can inside the block. I say this only because of how chunky your oil was and from the pictures in your early post. Once you have it all cleaned up, use a little assembly lube pretty much everywhere. And again, get the seals for the oil filter side of the engine (oil filter sandwich seals, oil cooler hose kit, distributer seal kit). Clean up that side of the engine real good. I will make maintenance like setting your timing, changing the alternator, and oil changes that much easier and pleasant. It will also give you the chance to clean all the gunk out of the sandwich plate and the oil cooler.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the help Berg.

After thinking on it a little longer, im going to replace the connecting rod bearings,which includes dropping the oil pan, so ill be spraying that area of the block real good to clean it all up.

I think replacing the connecting rod bearings wont be an issue. I dont think the car ever spun a bearing,think it just started to overheat so it was parked for about a year. Ill make sure to clean it all up from underneith though for sure.

If i had enough money to have the machine shop rebuilt the block for me, id have it done trust me. But since im on a REALLY tight budget, that wont be happening. Still trying to get some money together for the HG kit,bearings,and other parts i know ill need.

But again, thanks for all the help berg.

hopefully the clearances for the bearings is within spec, dropping the tranny to get the crank out will be a real pain.

joe's gt
11-11-2009, 04:25 AM
Assuming the block is cast iron, most likely nothing happened to it. Its the aluminum head that will warp way before the block. You should be fine. I hope my guesses on the material of the head and block are accurate.

Berg
11-11-2009, 04:50 AM
Assuming the block is cast iron, most likely nothing happened to it. Its the aluminum head that will warp way before the block. You should be fine. I hope my guesses on the material of the head and block are accurate.

They are. The block is cast iron and the head is aluminum. You are likely right, however when the headgasket blew there was overheating (according to a previous post). That overheating could lead to warpage. Usually not an issue if the driver stops immediatly, but as it was the previous owner that blew the HG we dont know how long it overheated or how much oil pressure there was. Best bet is to simply check it out. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Cheers,
Berg

joe's gt
11-11-2009, 06:55 AM
They are. The block is cast iron and the head is aluminum. You are likely right, however when the headgasket blew there was overheating (according to a previous post). That overheating could lead to warpage. Usually not an issue if the driver stops immediatly, but as it was the previous owner that blew the HG we dont know how long it overheated or how much oil pressure there was. Best bet is to simply check it out. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Cheers,
Berg

No, I totally agree. There's always that chance, but you can really only check if you have a machinists straight edge. And those are anything but cheap. My dad has one but its an hour away, otherwise I'd drive up there and give him one. Hey Will, will your school let you borrow a machinists straight edge? Berg's right, better be safe than sorry. But if you can't get one maybe someone else can suggest a straight edge that's precise enough to check the deck.

Freshnicity
11-11-2009, 05:39 PM
Yeah the school wont let me check the tools out to go home.

But i can check it.

The block should be fine. If it was aluminum id be worried, but cast iron handles the heat very well actually. And since the head is aluminum the head warps away from the block instead of fusing with it.

Kind of worried about doing the connecting rod bearings though.

Also, if i were to hone the cylinder walls with a ball honer to get rid of some surface rust that might be there i should use new rings huh? lol

Berg
11-11-2009, 06:20 PM
Yes, definately use new rings. And if you do hone it make sure that you clean everything out real well afterwards. Put some assembly lube or oil on the cylinger walls afterwards so they wont rust while waiting to get the rest of the engine done.

Don't worry about doing the bearings. Just take your time, check your clearances and be prepare to change bearing sized if needed. And of course use assembly oil/lube.

I have seen warped block decks from overheating. Mind you it was a Ford....

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-11-2009, 09:07 PM
Yes, definately use new rings. And if you do hone it make sure that you clean everything out real well afterwards. Put some assembly lube or oil on the cylinger walls afterwards so they wont rust while waiting to get the rest of the engine done.

Don't worry about doing the bearings. Just take your time, check your clearances and be prepare to change bearing sized if needed. And of course use assembly oil/lube.

I have seen warped block decks from overheating. Mind you it was a Ford....

Cheers,
Berg

Thanks Berg, youve been a huge help so far. Will be doing the bearings next week im hoping. I practiced putting in bearings on a 1NZFE engine with the pistons still on the other night, and it was very simple. Hopefully its the same for the 4AGZE

Berg
11-13-2009, 11:12 PM
A 1NZ-FE.... The 4A-GZE should be easy after that! I mean it's 0.1 litres bigger isn't it?

Seriously though, just take your time and do it right. And take pictures, I'm curious to see how gooped up things are in there (chunky oil).

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-14-2009, 02:44 AM
Well i took the plunge and removed the head.

Im kind of sad.

number 1 and 2 cylinders were filled with coolant/oil, i took pics after i had already cleaned them up and lubed with oil. Sigh

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2509/picture001bo.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/picture001bo.jpg/)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/919/picture002ei.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/picture002ei.jpg/)
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8650/picture003qrl.th.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/picture003qrl.jpg/)
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8771/picture004xt.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/picture004xt.jpg/)

With that being seen. Couple questions, please keep in mind, my budget is small,super,duper,small.

Option one. Remove pistons, get a ball honer, hone out the cylinder walls, clean pistons, replace piston rings and insert pistons with new rod bearings(all this with the block still in the bay).

Option two. I have no idea.

If i do option one, will it work? I know that a ball honer doesnt take off too much material, almost none, just really cleans it up while cross hatching. And ill for sure cover the crank really well before doing all of this.

Need some help here guys. Berg, whats up

Also, whats the best way to flush the coolant passages, they are filled with chocolate milk

joe's gt
11-14-2009, 05:37 AM
eh, definitely could have been worse. will definitely need a hone tho. can't really help you on suggestions with what to do. haven't had enough hands on experience to know.

Berg
11-14-2009, 04:26 PM
To be honest, I don't see any reason to be sad. An engine with a blown head gasket will have fluid in it. Do you know why the head gasket blew? If it blew because there was fluid in the cylinder you may have a problem. However it should be fairly obvious if that is your case (cracks from water jacket/oil passages to cylinders) and it doesn't look like that from the pictures.

Those pictures don't look that bad at all. There is minimal carbon buildup on the pistons, and I can still see the cross hatct from the previous honing job. The only real issue you have here is rust, which honestly, is expected for an engine that has been sitting for a while with a blown HG. I think you're in pretty good shape.

Normally to get rid of the rust I would just say bore the cylinders. However this isn't an option in your case. It appears that it is only very light surface rust, so a hone should get it. Remove the pistons, hone it, clean it real good (flush it with cleaner to get all the particles from honing out, if you use water you MUST dry it real well, but I wouldn't use water) and apply some assembly grease on the walls. You want something a little thicker than oil that will form a thin layer for rust protection and lubrication between honing and engine startup.

DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL OR WIRE BRUSHES OR THE LIKE. These will scratch the cylinder walls an also leave bits of themselves behind. A bit of steel wool or a wire from the brush will do all sorts of damage floating around in an engine.

You are on the right track. Remove the pistons. Hone the cylinders. Clean and lubricate. Use some chemical cleaners to get the carbon off the pistons. New rings, new bearings. Reassemble and check clearances. Reassemble rest of engine. Enjoy!

I havent tried to flush coolant passages, so any advice I give on that is untested and just my thoughts. All my engine rebuilds had the block hot tanked. However, in the car I would think that you need to find a cleaner that can deal with both oil and coolant. Tell this do the guy at the autoparst store and he should be able to recommend something for you. Make sure all the hoses and pipes that can be removed from the engine are, you only want to deal with the passages in the block. Get the cleaner down into the coolant passages and let it soak according to instructions. Flush it out with water (might have some legal problems if you're doing this outside). Then cover EVERYTHING you want to keep clean, put on some goggles and get some compressed air going through there. Like I said it's only a theory and I'm sure that some one has a better method.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Berg

Berg
11-14-2009, 04:30 PM
Oh, and when you are honing you might want to get a tool for the tops of the cylinders. I sorry I cant remember the name of it right now, I think its a reamer. It is just for the very top of the cylinder. I'll have to get back to you on what it actually is called and if you need/should do it.

Chers,
Berg

Berg
11-14-2009, 04:36 PM
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/ts311.htm

There. I'm not sure you need this cause your cylinders look pretty good. You'll have tot make the call.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-15-2009, 07:02 PM
BERG, thanks for all the help man. Joe you too dude, we easily could have pulled the head that day, within like 10 minutes lol.

Well im going to hone it and slide in new rings and such. Berg thanks for the info on the honeing, im hoping a ball honer can remove most the rust, if not I do have a stone, but then i think id need bigger rings right?? cause stones remove a lot of material.

Will also be getting a reamer, they feel smooth, but for another $25-50 why not just get one and be safe? i know ill use it again anyway.

Will be pulling the pistons after i get the head back from the machine shop

joe's gt
11-16-2009, 07:52 PM
np, man. Honestly dude, for sitting for a year in that condition, it really actually looks decent. So you don't need a new head and your block is useable, things are workin out for ya. keep up the great work.

Berg
11-16-2009, 08:13 PM
Happy to help. Things do look like they are going well. I was thinking about cleaning the water jacket and such. I'm sure you were planning on doing this anyway, but when you get the engine back together and ready to run, don't bother with coolant, just use plain water. Take a look at this:

http://www.padandwheels.com/mr2/waterpump/coolant.html

Using just plain water (from a hose), some buckets and some patience, you should be able to flush your entire coolant system. Once its all flushed put the properly mixed coolant in. The above page also is a fairly good resource for maintenance proceedures. Granted its for a 4A-GE and a 20V motor, but most of it holds true for the 4A-GZE.

Also, when you first start the engine up and set your timing, before driving it do an oil change. Pay extra special attention when doing this oil change. Clean all your tools and the container you are draining into. Do this so you can check the oil out of the freshly started engine for any particles that shouldn't be there. Make sure that you have a magnetic oil drain plug. Also change the oil filter and cut it open and check the filter for any particles as well. This oil change should also flush any assembly lube/grease out of the engine. It would be a good idea to change the oil again after the first couple hours of drving and again check for anything that might indicate a problem.

Keep us updated!

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-17-2009, 05:00 AM
Joe- so i thought, check the post lol

Berg- thanks for that info man. Really helpful. And trust me will change the oil on this thing 2-3 times before it gets any real drive time. Same way i did it with my Celica when i did its HG

well, my cylinder head is usable, but pricey?

Machine shop said it wasnt warped much, but one of the valve seats is coming out. about $60 to fix on its own(on top of the $40 i paid for the pressure check).
However they stated it would need a valve job after this.

including the seat and labor, $400. Thats to grind all the valves, lap the seats, and adjust the valves. That seem like much?

Ive ground valves and lapped seats before, but honestly im not comfortable doing it on this engine, considering i need it running well after it is running, dont want to risk an issue with a incorrectly ground valve or lapped seat. So couple choices.

Pick up a low mileage large port head $120-150, have it milled, $40 and run with it.

Or, get the valve job done on mine.

Berg
11-17-2009, 05:33 AM
Well there are two ways to look at that:

1 - Pick up a low milleage head and have it checked out. Run the risk of having similar problems.

2 - Spend the money and have the work done to this head.

Consider how much time the shop has to put into working on the head. They will clean it, they've already checked it out, they will disassemble it, get all the valves seated and adjusted (by adjusted I assume you mean shimming them). I would say that there are at least a few hours of work there. Average shop rates (here at least) can range between #80-$150/hr. So if they spend four hours on your head, and include the parts, I think that can be called reasonable.

Option one has a lower initial cost, lets go worst case $150 + $40 so $190 for a head that will seal well with the head gasket, but has wear on the valve seats/guides/etc. (even assuming you get one in good shape, it will have wear). However, with option two you KNOW everything is like brand new.

I can't make the decision for you, but personally, that peice of mind would be worth my $200. Consider how much of a pain in the butt this has been so far. I would do what I could to make sure that such work doesn't need to be done again for as long as possible. Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Berg

joe's gt
11-17-2009, 06:54 AM
Is this a trusted machine shop? I'm sure you know enough about the head considering your classroom experience to know whether they are BSing you about the valves or not, so its a bummer u got to spend that extra money. Not going home for another two weeks, otherwise I'd drive up there so we could use my dad's machinists straight edge to see if the head is really warped or not. Since it was a blown head gasket, its definitely a strong possibility. Just want to make sure this shop is someone you've dealt with before or know has a good reputation since there are so many around the sac area.

The quote doesn't sound unreasonable. I think that's around what I paid.

Berg
11-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Is this a trusted machine shop?

Good call. This never even crossed my mind. And it should have, because I've been burned before. To me it sounds like these guys are being honest. They could have easily made up a bunch of bogus "work that needs doing".


The quote doesn't sound unreasonable. I think that's around what I paid.

I think that the price sounds like it's right where it should be. Is is more than you wanted to spend? Yes. Is it money well spent? I would say yes. Again, that's just my opinion.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-17-2009, 07:35 PM
It is a trusted machine shop. Have used them in the past with the head on my Celica and doing my wheel bearings and what not.

I can get a low milage early GE head with the better cams for $120 shipped..so thats $120 + $40 = $160. thats a good $240 less. It would need a valve adjustment though.

Honestly, not too sure what to do. Im thinking that im going to buy another used head, and have it milled flat just to get this thing running. I can rebuild later when time is no longer an issue. That way ill have a spare head and cams to use.

Not sure though. I got about $50 right now(my moms and my girls birthday this month, goodbye car funds) so i can purchase another head when i get paid at the end of the money.

So far I still need.

Gasket Set $140.
Machine Work $40-80
Water Pump $86
Timing Belt $30
New rubber hoses $who knows how much
Connecting Rod Bearings $50
PIstons Rings(NPRs are $50)
Honeing materials $50-60

And im forgetting a lot of stuff.

So ill pick up another head in a few weeks, and get this moving along. I really need to sell this header/midpipe to help fund this thing

Berg
11-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Oh! Your list of stuff reminded me of a mistake I recently made. I replaced my water pump a while back. The pump only came with a felt/paper type gasket for the pump to the suction plate mating surfaces. If your pump does not have it, order the water pump o-ring kit from kbox.ca:
http://www.kbox.ca/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/39_64_70/products_id/199
Because I never took the suction plate off I just used the one gasket that the pump came with. The o-ring between the block and the suction plate was old and didn't seal after torquing the water pump back down. After I started the car and started to bleed the coolant I found a very steady drip from behind the timing cover. I had to then order the o-rings, park the car, and spend a few more hours pulling it all apart again. At about $5 its worth doing it now.

I'm sure you were going to anyway, I just wanted to make sure that somebody could benefit from my bad experience.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-17-2009, 08:21 PM
I actually wasnt going to, and didnt even realize the o rings, so good call Berg, just saved me a lot of future headaches.

now i just got to find a head and get rid of these headers and commence the rebuild

Freshnicity
11-17-2009, 08:59 PM
After doing some calling around.

Its going to be about $350 to get this head fixed.

After stopping to think logically, its better to spend the extra money, and get it done right. That way ill have a close to new head, thats warrantied and ready to be beat to hell.

Like berg said. with a used head to do it right im looking at.

$120-150 + $80 for the mill and pressure check. best case scenario $200 for a head that will work, but might have some valve leakage, has unknown miles with unknown damage.

Ill pay the extra dough for the head to get fixed

Berg
11-18-2009, 10:16 PM
I actually wasnt going to, and didnt even realize the o rings, so good call Berg, just saved me a lot of future headaches.

now i just got to find a head and get rid of these headers and commence the rebuild

Glad to hear that something good came out of my bad experience. :wiggle:
I'm sure you would have caught it when you pulled the pipes off to clean the gunk out of the water jacket.

I'm a big fan of the kbox site. I would go through and make a list of all the seals and gaskets you need for the engine and then buy it all in one go. The kbox prices are usually better than the factory Toyota prices. As far as I can tell they are factory parts too (I think I read that the guy running it actually finds out who makes the parts for Toyota and then buys in bulk from them, but don't quote me on that).

Common leaks to think about getting parts for:
Camshaft cover gaskets
Camshaft bolt washers
Distributor (kbox has a kit, you will need a press though: http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=8286)
Oil cooler sandwich orings
Oil cooler hoses
Oil drain plug
Dipstick tube oring (good idea since you take it off when you take off the water pump)
Water pump oring kit

I got all those and the timing belt for less than $140 including shipping. Worth every penny. You might wish to leave that untill you are ready for reassembly.

And you might want to pick up some other things like the orings for the injectors. General rule of thumb: If a rubber oring or gasket has been on an engine for 20+ years, it may keep its seal so long as it isn't disturbed, but as soon as you start taking parts off those old dried out orings and gaskets will likely never seal again. Learn from my mistake.

And keep up with the pictures. I always enjoy seeing MR2 rebuilds.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-22-2009, 01:47 AM
So i got the pistons out, the lower part of the cylinders look great. Wasnt too hard to do either. Did it by myself, took about 2 hours from start to finish with breaks.

Will get pics of the connecting rods/pistons/con rod. bearings as well. But check it out.

Next is hone, new rings, new bearings, rebuild the head, place it all back together, and run it.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4672/picture011sh.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/picture011sh.jpg/)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4713/picture007iq.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/i/picture007iq.jpg/)
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3073/picture008c.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/picture008c.jpg/)
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3784/picture009l.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/picture009l.jpg/)
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/416/picture010au.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/picture010au.jpg/)

Also got a ticket today for having it on the street with no tags, $112.50. Goodbye bearings and piston rings.

Berg you still think i should be good if i hone the cylinders and replace the rings????

joe's gt
11-22-2009, 02:47 AM
I am so sick of Sac cops dude. There is so much f*ckin prejudice. Guarantee you if that was a mustang sittin on the street, nuthin would've been done or said. Sorry bro.

Freshnicity
11-22-2009, 03:36 AM
I am so sick of Sac cops dude. There is so much f*ckin prejudice. Guarantee you if that was a mustang sittin on the street, nuthin would've been done or said. Sorry bro.

Yeah i know. Pretty sure someone called on me. They NEVER come down my street, you saw where I live, in the very back. Just so happens i get a ticket 8am saturday morning? Nah, someone called.

Whatever though. Ill pay it. Not going to let some dudley do right with a ticket printer stop my project

Berg
11-22-2009, 05:16 AM
The ticket sucks! Can you move the car off the road at all?

Yeah your engine is looking pretty good. Sounds like you got the plan down pretty good too. Keep at it and remember its easier to take your time now and do it right and replace all the gaskets and seals you have access to than to have a leak/problem laters on.

Metal exposed to the air will rust. Get some protectant (oil/light grease) on everything you want to stay clean. And a clean engine is a happy engine.

I know, I know, nothing that hasn't been said before.

I look forward to seeing more pictures!

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-22-2009, 05:20 AM
i oil the cylinder walls everyday with 20-40 oil.

i will post more pics tomorrow. you think those cylinder walls are salvageable Berg?

And the car now sits in the driveway, which will make working on it a lot more difficult.

joe's gt
11-22-2009, 07:34 AM
I do. Honestly the one bad one only looks like surface rust that will be easily taken off with a hone.

Kanoodle
11-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Oh! Your list of stuff reminded me of a mistake I recently made. I replaced my water pump a while back. The pump only came with a felt/paper type gasket for the pump to the suction plate mating surfaces. If your pump does not have it, order the water pump o-ring kit from kbox.ca:
http://www.kbox.ca/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/39_64_70/products_id/199
Because I never took the suction plate off I just used the one gasket that the pump came with. The o-ring between the block and the suction plate was old and didn't seal after torquing the water pump back down. After I started the car and started to bleed the coolant I found a very steady drip from behind the timing cover. I had to then order the o-rings, park the car, and spend a few more hours pulling it all apart again. At about $5 its worth doing it now.

I'm sure you were going to anyway, I just wanted to make sure that somebody could benefit from my bad experience.

Cheers,
Berg

Sorry to thread jack :/ Great info, the water pump is a PITA!!! I am also in the MKI MR2 fan club. I have a 88 N/A that threw a timing belt and got rod knock. So I now have a ae92 gze that i will convert to turbo. I am shooting for 200 whp but we will see what happens with that. Also if you are needing parts you can sign up on MR2OC.com they always have stuff like heads and other useful items going up for quick sales :D

Dustin

Freshnicity
11-22-2009, 06:32 PM
Sorry to thread jack :/ Great info, the water pump is a PITA!!! I am also in the MKI MR2 fan club. I have a 88 N/A that threw a timing belt and got rod knock. So I now have a ae92 gze that i will convert to turbo. I am shooting for 200 whp but we will see what happens with that. Also if you are needing parts you can sign up on MR2OC.com they always have stuff like heads and other useful items going up for quick sales :D

Dustin

Water pump actually wasnt too bad, easier then my Celica to be honest.

Im also converting my GZE to GTE, with a T28 60 trim on stock electronics running 10-12psi to start, then moving to MS PNP system once I up the boost, should put me up to the 200hp region pretty easily. Also converting to the Blacktop 6Spd tranny :)

And im on mr2oc.com also.

Kanoodle
11-23-2009, 05:19 AM
Nice, awhile back I was thinking of doing a 6sp 20v but other things graps my attention. If this tranny eats shit maybe I'll look into converting to 6sp later on.

Berg
11-23-2009, 03:47 PM
i oil the cylinder walls everyday with 20-40 oil.

i will post more pics tomorrow. you think those cylinder walls are salvageable Berg?

And the car now sits in the driveway, which will make working on it a lot more difficult.

If you don't want to have to oil the cylinders every day you could try using some assembly grease. It will stay in place once you put it on. You probably want to wait untill after the hone for that though.

I think those cylinders are in pretty good shape. As mentioned before you just have some surface rust that the hone should take care of.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
11-29-2009, 08:02 AM
So the rebuild is on hold, due to being broke lol.

Got a ticket this month for the MR2 being parked on the street with no tags(think this lady down the street called cause i wont sell it to her son) $112.50

Registration for the Celica is due before i get paid again, $71

And girlfriends birthday was saturday $60

that all equals the money i had to get some parts and the block reassembled this week. Guess it happens. Basically just going to be doing body work until the 15th of december which is when ill get paid again, lame.

joe's gt
11-29-2009, 08:23 AM
Register it as non-op! Its most likely gonna be a little awhile before we actually get to drift :p

Freshnicity
11-29-2009, 07:44 PM
Register it as non-op! Its most likely gonna be a little awhile before we actually get to drift :p

Well even if its on non op, it cant be on the street. So i would have got a ticket either way. Cars not even in my name yet :)

Need some money for this project.

Ryan
11-29-2009, 08:36 PM
I wish I had money to throw your way bro... I know how you feel, bills always come at exactly the wrong moment... assholes. Anyway, just take your time and dont let yourself get stressed, remember, it is a PROJECT, which basically translates into prolonged money pit... lol

Freshnicity
11-29-2009, 10:01 PM
I wish I had money to throw your way bro... I know how you feel, bills always come at exactly the wrong moment... assholes. Anyway, just take your time and dont let yourself get stressed, remember, it is a PROJECT, which basically translates into prolonged money pit... lol

Haha your right about the money pit.

its an addiction. Think I will start changing peoples oil and washing/detailing the inside of there cars again for some extra cash.

Think im going to at least go pick up a piston ring compressor, some plastigauge and a micrometer today. I think i should be able to afford all that

Ryan
11-29-2009, 10:21 PM
The best thing you can do is sit down, figure out your monthly income, subtract bills and other necessities, and see how much money you have left... Dont stretch yourself too thin man, its not a good feeling.

Freshnicity
11-29-2009, 11:20 PM
The best thing you can do is sit down, figure out your monthly income, subtract bills and other necessities, and see how much money you have left... Dont stretch yourself too thin man, its not a good feeling.

Well thats what I do with every pay check. I get paid every two weeks. So i pay bills, subtract money for gas and the rest goes to the car.

Looks like ill have $50 after i pay everything. So im going to order the Timing Belt kit.

Luni
11-29-2009, 11:53 PM
Been reading your thread. Your engine is fine. Rehoning will be fine. I agree with Berg on everything hes said.

Kanoodle has a bunch of MR2 engine shit laying around. Hit him up if you need anything, we can go through his shit hes not using and see if he has what you need.

Freshnicity
11-30-2009, 12:27 AM
Been reading your thread. Your engine is fine. Rehoning will be fine. I agree with Berg on everything hes said.

Kanoodle has a bunch of MR2 engine shit laying around. Hit him up if you need anything, we can go through his shit hes not using and see if he has what you need.

Ok thanks Luni, ill get in touch with Kanoodle.

And yeah Berg has been a huge help, everyone else has been also

Kanoodle
11-30-2009, 06:38 AM
Got two n/a 4age's sitting around...

Freshnicity
12-03-2009, 02:37 AM
This seems to be the worst bearing. Lower half of the two i believe on the 3rd cylinder.

Please note, the car blew a headgasket,oil and coolant mixed, coolant and oil mixed(yeah both lol), car was ran for a little bit after(not by me). Also note, these bearings have 200k miles on them. And the bearings are complete. No pits, no scratches, no spun bearings, just changing them as a preventive thing.

same bearing in both pics, sorry my camera taking skills suck

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2011/picture015a.th.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/picture015a.jpg/)
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3525/picture014g.th.jpg (http://img686.imageshack.us/i/picture014g.jpg/)

The journals on the crankshaft are fine, no scratches, no nothing. this seem ok? should i be ok?

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2874/1001620x.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/1001620x.jpg/)
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6383/1001618.th.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/1001618.jpg/)

Ryan
12-03-2009, 03:58 AM
Yeah man, sounds like itll be fine. You are doing the right thing though, get it done while you can, so you dont have to worry down the line. Keep us updated!

Berg
12-03-2009, 10:43 PM
^Agreed.

Not much more I can say, everything has pretty much been covered. Just take your time. Keep it clean. Keep posting if you've got questions and of course keep us updated! Everyone likes pictures!

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
12-06-2009, 10:24 PM
Thanks for the help guys. Heres some more pics.

Backside of the #3 connecting rod.

#3 connecting rod journal. Kind of has me worried ??

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8845/picture021rd.th.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/picture021rd.jpg/)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8615/picture016qq.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/picture016qq.jpg/)
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5056/picture017k.th.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/picture017k.jpg/)
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4726/picture018qk.th.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/picture018qk.jpg/)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4016/picture019xd.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/picture019xd.jpg/)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2343/picture020qd.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/picture020qd.jpg/)

andy
12-07-2009, 03:43 PM
its fine, clean it up slap some new metal in and run it till it blows to lil parts.

Freshnicity
12-07-2009, 07:02 PM
its fine, clean it up slap some new metal in and run it till it blows to lil parts.

i dont like the sound of that

Freshnicity
12-09-2009, 04:36 AM
rods are out of round. Guess i have to bore them. Thats $40 + $50 for ARP bolts. :(

Considering pulling the block so it can sit in the garage until i can finish it up. its easier that or it sits outside and gets sprayed with WD40 everyday and covered in rags. Had some COLD COLD weather here lately though, not sure what to do?

joe's gt
12-09-2009, 07:20 AM
how'd you find out they were "out of round"? what does that mean? sorry for the noobish question but my lack of internals hands on experience makes me not know these things.

andy
12-09-2009, 03:36 PM
your talking the big end right? i do have some rods for that engine.....

Freshnicity
12-09-2009, 07:43 PM
your talking the big end right? i do have some rods for that engine.....

Yeah the big end where the bearings seat. How many miles on the rods?? and would you be able to check if they are out of round(need a snap gauge and micrometer 1").??? if they have low miles, i might be interested in buying them. Think its $40 to get mine bored, but that shortens the length of piston travel a little.

Joe I used a snap gauge and micrometer. I remove the con rod bearings, put the rod back together and torque the nuts down to spec. With the bearings out, i then measure across the big end of the rod(where the bearings go), and then took that measurement and measured with a micrometer. I then measured up and down at a slight angle and then measured that with the micrometer. They were out of spec by like .011". Enough to cause premature bearing failure with new bearings.

hope this helps understand it

http://www.tpub.com/content/firetrucksandequipment/TM-5-4210-230-14P-1/css/TM-5-4210-230-14P-1_661.htm

joe's gt
12-09-2009, 09:20 PM
Fresh, you are the man foo! Thanks for that info. It was extremely educational.

Freshnicity
12-13-2009, 04:27 AM
Noticed that the top of the piston is chipped??? not sure how it happened,

Piston Number 2(one with stuck ring)
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4605/picture047rk.th.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/picture047rk.jpg/)

Another piston
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5440/picture049te.th.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/picture049te.jpg/)
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7042/picture048wk.th.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/picture048wk.jpg/)

So..what should i do? normal wear/tear for a 260k+ mile engine, or am i looking at new pistons?

These are the only 2 that have it, other 2 are fine.

Car hates me

Freshnicity
12-15-2009, 02:48 AM
due to the melted pistons, im just pulling the rest of the engine from the car, and doing a complete rebuild.

ordering new OEM 8.0:1 pistons from Toyota, oversized, and boring the block. Seems to be better to invest more money now, to get a good running engine, then to pay later down the line due to failure.

Pulling it this week..or maybe the week of the 28th, not sure yet,

Berg
12-15-2009, 04:13 PM
due to the melted pistons, im just pulling the rest of the engine from the car, and doing a complete rebuild.

ordering new OEM 8.0:1 pistons from Toyota, oversized, and boring the block. Seems to be better to invest more money now, to get a good running engine, then to pay later down the line due to failure.

Pulling it this week..or maybe the week of the 28th, not sure yet,

:D
Glad to hear it. I realize that financially it sucks, but I'm sure you'll be happier down the road. This way you can get the block cleaned properly (ie get all the gunk out).

Like I said in an earlier post, I like to look closely at an engine when I'm rebuilding it for sharp corners and edges. If possible I like to round them off with a grinder. It just makes it nicer to work on later without the flesh tearing sharp edges. Of course you have to be carefull, some sharp edges are needed for allignment purposes. And I like to paint my engines. By no means am I saying you have to do this, just a couple of suggestions from me to you.

Another chance for you to learn from my mistakes: Do not take the shop that does the work's word that it is good. Check it yourself before, during, and after assembly. If you find a problem, stop. Solve it. Then go on. Also, a newly rebuild engine is like a new engine. It deserves new belts, new PUMPS (thats what I skimped on, and regretted), and new hoses.

I realize that it is probably a long way off, but before you start the engine again I would remove the radiator and take it to be professionally cleaned. You can get new oring for the valves (drain and bleeder) from kbox. I say this because it is likely there is a lot of scaling in the coolant system. New engine plus dirty radiator equals dirty coolant in new engine. I think I read on the MR2 messageboard that someone made a larger aluminum radiator custom for the MkI. If you are going to be upping the performance quite a bit it might be an idea. Mind you, it was fairly expensive. Replace all the rubber hoses and I would even go so far as to say that this would be a good time to put in a new heater core. With the engine and radiator out of the car you should be able to flush the long pipes running under the car. After flushing put on some temporary caps until you are ready to connect the rubber hoses to prevent any dirt from entering.

I guess the short version of what I'm trying to say is that anything that going to be connected to the engine should be clean, and/or new. There are lots of little things that I'm sure I've missed (new idler/tension pulleys, have the injectors cleaned, etc.)

If you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer them best I can. And what I can't answer I'm sure that there is someone here who can.

Cheers,
Berg

joe's gt
12-16-2009, 06:17 AM
I would love to help you build the engine when you get to the point where everything is back from the machine shop and ready to be assembled. Its something I've wanted to do my entire life, but have never gotten a chance. Its always been a dream of mine to participate in an engine build from the ground up. So I'm in if you want my help.

Freshnicity
12-17-2009, 06:02 AM
:D
Glad to hear it. I realize that financially it sucks, but I'm sure you'll be happier down the road. This way you can get the block cleaned properly (ie get all the gunk out).

Like I said in an earlier post, I like to look closely at an engine when I'm rebuilding it for sharp corners and edges. If possible I like to round them off with a grinder. It just makes it nicer to work on later without the flesh tearing sharp edges. Of course you have to be carefull, some sharp edges are needed for allignment purposes. And I like to paint my engines. By no means am I saying you have to do this, just a couple of suggestions from me to you.

Another chance for you to learn from my mistakes: Do not take the shop that does the work's word that it is good. Check it yourself before, during, and after assembly. If you find a problem, stop. Solve it. Then go on. Also, a newly rebuild engine is like a new engine. It deserves new belts, new PUMPS (thats what I skimped on, and regretted), and new hoses.

I realize that it is probably a long way off, but before you start the engine again I would remove the radiator and take it to be professionally cleaned. You can get new oring for the valves (drain and bleeder) from kbox. I say this because it is likely there is a lot of scaling in the coolant system. New engine plus dirty radiator equals dirty coolant in new engine. I think I read on the MR2 messageboard that someone made a larger aluminum radiator custom for the MkI. If you are going to be upping the performance quite a bit it might be an idea. Mind you, it was fairly expensive. Replace all the rubber hoses and I would even go so far as to say that this would be a good time to put in a new heater core. With the engine and radiator out of the car you should be able to flush the long pipes running under the car. After flushing put on some temporary caps until you are ready to connect the rubber hoses to prevent any dirt from entering.

I guess the short version of what I'm trying to say is that anything that going to be connected to the engine should be clean, and/or new. There are lots of little things that I'm sure I've missed (new idler/tension pulleys, have the injectors cleaned, etc.)

If you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer them best I can. And what I can't answer I'm sure that there is someone here who can.

Cheers,
Berg

Berg thanks for all the info. I will be following all of your suggestions. To be honest, my budget is TIGHT. REAL tight. Im looking for a second job(graveyard) to work to pay for this rebuild. But i wont skimp on anything, i completely understand. Thank you for all the advice.

Joe, you know your welcome over anytime. Considering i have to save up for most the parts, ill order them in groups and you can swing through and help me with assembly anytime man

Berg
12-17-2009, 02:43 PM
Now I'm jealous, I live too far away to come over and give you a hand :laugh:

I guess I will have to settle for all the pics you're going to post (you will post lots right?).

You've taken the engine apart this far so I'm assuming you have most of the tools you will need. To get the rest of the engine out you have two options. Because you have taken the head off it is possible to lift it up through the top. However it is far more common to drop it out the bottom with the transmission. The easiest way to do this is to get some ramps to put the front up on (I'm assuming you have drained all the fluids at this point). I hope you know the ones I mean, they are sometimes used in place of jacks (drive the front of the car up on it and the wheels sit in dips that hold the front in place and lift the front of the car a foot or two off the ground). Then jack up the rear of the car and disconnect the axles from the wheels and the transmission. Now give everything a once over and make sure that al cables/wires/hoses/etc that attach the engine/transmission to the car are disconnected. Now rent an engine hoist. Connect the hoist to the engine and transmission. When ready remove the front and rear mounts, keeping the side ones in. Put a dolly or something under the car for the engine and transmission to sit on. Lower the rear of the car (and the hoist with it). Now take the weight of the engine/tranny with the hoist and remove the side mounts. Lower the engine and tranny onto whatever is under the car (it can even be a piece of plywood if you can slide it on the ground. Make sure the engine and tranny are stable. Disconnect the hoist. Now connect the hoist to the car somehow (chain it to both side engine mounts or something strong). Use the hoist to get the rear of the car up high enough to slide the engine out from under it. Separate the engine from the transmission and use the hoist to get the engine on a stand. Return hoist to place of rental.

This is just a quick guide. I'm sure there will be issues I haven't mentions, but thats half the fun. As always, BE CAREFULL! And have fun.

Cheers,
Berg

Shadowlife25
12-17-2009, 03:33 PM
Will, when you're ready, I'll help you with it.

Berg
12-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Here's another tip from me to you, and believe me, I wish I'd followed this in my earlier days of pulling things apart. Since you are waiting on funds to get parts to get things back together it will take a while between disassembly and reassembly. It will take longer than you plan (not saying anything bad about skill level or anything like that, it just always takes longer than planned). I'm sure you've heard this before....

It's best to describe this through example. So lets pretend you're taking the water pump off. Before any wrenches start spinning take an index card and write "Waterpump" on the top of it. Take a picture of the water pump that shows all the bolts/nuts that hold it on (you may need to take more than one). Check the file names in the camera for these pictures and write them down on the index card. On the other side of the index car draw a picture of the pump. It doesn't have to be neat, just make sure it shows which is the top and indicate where all the bolts are. Now remove the first bolt. Take a tape measure and measure how long it is. Write this length next to the corresponding indication of where this bolt goes on your picture. Place the bolt in a magnectic tray or a bowl or a jar or whatever. Now remove the next bolt and follow the same proceedure. When all the bolts are removed, remove the water pump. If you run into trouble getting it off, like another bolt, take a picture of the issue and write it down on the index card. For example, if the pump only came off if you pulled on the right side then rotated the unit counter clockwise, right that down on the card. Take all the bolts to your work bench. There have a tupperware container or a small bucket or something filled with some kind of cleaner that's good on grease (I use varsol). Next to this have a scribe (dental pick) a small stiff brush (toothbrush size), a small flat blade screwdriver and even a small wire brush. Start with the small screwdriver to scrape off most of the crud. Then use the scribe to clean down in the threads. Put this bolt in the solvent and do the same to the next one. Next use the brushes and the solvent to clean the bolts as best you can. Be aware that the bristtles of the brush will fling little bits or crud around. You will need a good pair of goggles and will save some cleaning by putting plastic down in the area you are doing this. Once a bolt is clean wipe it down with a rag and set it in another bowl or magnetic dish or whatever. With the varsol it will only take a minute to dry. Do the same with the next bolt. Once all the bolts are clean and dry, inspect them. If the threads are damaged replace the bolt. If they are all good put them in a strong ziploc bag. Put the index card in the bag. Seal the back and put it in a container with a lid. At the end of each day copy the pictures from your camera to your computer AND a backup drive. Do not change the file names.

Now fast forward to several days/weeks/months/years later when it's time to put the new pump on. There is little chance that you would be able to remember which bolts go where simply by looking at them (especially if you simply threw ALL the bolts in a box). Instead you can now grab the nice clean bag of nice clean bolts from the box. You can look up the pictures of how the water pump is supposed to fit on your computer and if there are any special instructions they shouls be on your index card ("I had to pull on the right sid and rotate it counter clockwise to get it off, so if i put the left side in first and rotate it clockwise then pushe the right side in it should go on"). With the nice clean pump on the nice clean engine you can now install the nice clean bolts with absolute certainty where the different lengthed ones go.

Now I realize that it seems like a lot of work. But consider this, you have lots of time. All this can be done with very little money (a few tools and some solvent). Also the pure frustration of wondering why some bolts seem to be the wrong length/size is gone. A lot of people think that it is better to clean the bolts as they go back on the engine, but throwing dirty bolts into the bag with the card will dirty up the card. AND, here's the biggie, when assembling a fresh clean engine, then handling dirty bolts you are bound to get the nice clean engine dirty. Also when you are putting and engine back together you start to get excited and sort of fall into a groove. This is thrown off by having to stop and clean bolts.

Also dont throw out the index cards. If you have an index card box put them in alphabetical order in there. That way if you ever have to pull a part off the engine again you will have instructions written by you, so hopefully you understand them, and details of where the bolts are and where they go and even a reference to pictures youve taken of the part.

Just some advice I wish I'd had years ago. Do with it what you like.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
12-18-2009, 07:45 PM
Berg, thats got to be some of the most helpful advice ive gotten yet. Ive managed to keep things sort of organzied? all bolts are in ziplock baggies with thier components, or if the components are too big for baggies, they are all bagged up and labeled exactly what they are. so i should be ok, will be replacing a lot of bolts though like you suggested.

Mario, we set a date of 12/29 to pull the engine. Only day i could get off work at the same time as my friend whos letting me use his engine hoist. So far its just me an him, we could use some help for sure if your available. if not its cool, i understand. But if you are,we could use some help, i got food/drinks covered(not as good as your moms cooking though).

i got one shifter cable pulled today, the other ones clip was stuck, so im going to try at it again tomorrow when i feel a little better.

Cant figure out how to remove the slave cyl. though??? its held onto a mount, thats mounted to the tranny. havent figured out how to get it off/out the way yet

axles coming out tomorrow too

Berg
12-18-2009, 08:30 PM
Try this to get the shifter cable clip out: Take a pair of channellock pliers (like these: http://www.buy.com/prod/channellock-pliers/q/loc/66357/208062990.html) and set them to the smallest position. The clip that holds the cable in place has a ninety degree bend at the end opposite to the clip (not sure that is a good explanation, but you got one off so I assume you know what I'm talking about). Hook the non adjustable end of the pliers under this bend/lip lengthwise so there is maximum contact between the plier's jaw and the lip. Squeeze the handles to grab onto this lip. You should now have maximum contact between the pliers and the clip's lip. Gently push the pliers to rotate the clip slightly (the clip should rotate around in its groove on the shifter cable). If nothing much happens don't worry. Now pull on the pliers. Rinse, lather and repeat. By pushing and pulling you are breaking it free from all the crud that might be holding it in place. Also, because the handles of the pliers come out at an angle, one of the motions (pushing or pulling) will pull the clip up and out.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
12-30-2009, 07:35 PM
Berg man youve been a huge help so far, i appreciate it a lot.

Little update.

Got EVERYTHING disconnected from the engine, except the pass. side driveaxle. one of the hex bolts on the transmission side stripped out, was too tight, i tried to force it, i stripped it, i fail i know.

So i decided to remove the axle as a hole. But the axle nut will not budge. I soaked it in PB blaster, no dice. I go out an buy an impact wrench(250ft/lbs) an hit it with that, no dice. (stumped now). hit it with a heat gun, and then the impact again, no luck. Now im just stuck.

Not sure what to do from here. The thing needs to come out, and this axle nut is crusted on and doesnt want to move. And im not sure how to go about removing the stripped hex bolt, any ideas?

MrWOT
12-30-2009, 08:14 PM
File the bolt edges to sharpen, get the next closest size down socket, heat the socket up, and hammer it on.

Freshnicity
12-31-2009, 02:28 AM
File the bolt edges to sharpen, get the next closest size down socket, heat the socket up, and hammer it on.


to the stripped axle bolt? i cant, the bolt head is round. Its where you stick the hex wrench inside of it to take it out. Im stumped on how to get that out, since its round an all. Any other ideas?

Berg
12-31-2009, 04:29 AM
Ok well you have two options with that axle: get the nut off the transmission side off or get the main axle nut off the wheel side. Both will have to be done eventually.

For the axle nut:
Mechanical advantage is your friend. Make sure that the cotter pin is out and then put an impact socket (regular sockets not strong enough) on the nut. Use a long handle wrench on the socket, NOT a ratcheting handle. Get a piece of gas pipe or steam pipe or the like and slip it over the handle. The longer the handle the more mechanical advantage you have. I once hat an eight foot pipe on a handle to get a rusted bolt off my old celica. Be aware that with such mechanical advantage you can easily break things. Axle should be plenty strong though.

As for the nut on the transmission side, if memory serves this should be on a stud that is pressed in throught the part the axle attaches to. You can take an angle grinder or a hacksaw to the nut on the stud. Once the nut is off you will likely have a pretty messed up stud. If you get this part out of the transmission you can press the stud out. You can get replacement studs from Toyota pretty cheap. My celica had that problem (though I didn't have to press the stud out, it fell out). Instead of pressing the stud in I simply put the stud in without the axle and tightened a nut to pull it in. REPLACE ALL THE NUTS! I didn't and they worked themselves loose. Again learn from my bad experience. Having an axle disconnect itself why driving isn't that fun.

Where are the pics? Lol.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
12-31-2009, 05:04 AM
Ok well you have two options with that axle: get the nut off the transmission side off or get the main axle nut off the wheel side. Both will have to be done eventually.

For the axle nut:
Mechanical advantage is your friend. Make sure that the cotter pin is out and then put an impact socket (regular sockets not strong enough) on the nut. Use a long handle wrench on the socket, NOT a ratcheting handle. Get a piece of gas pipe or steam pipe or the like and slip it over the handle. The longer the handle the more mechanical advantage you have. I once hat an eight foot pipe on a handle to get a rusted bolt off my old celica. Be aware that with such mechanical advantage you can easily break things. Axle should be plenty strong though.

As for the nut on the transmission side, if memory serves this should be on a stud that is pressed in throught the part the axle attaches to. You can take an angle grinder or a hacksaw to the nut on the stud. Once the nut is off you will likely have a pretty messed up stud. If you get this part out of the transmission you can press the stud out. You can get replacement studs from Toyota pretty cheap. My celica had that problem (though I didn't have to press the stud out, it fell out). Instead of pressing the stud in I simply put the stud in without the axle and tightened a nut to pull it in. REPLACE ALL THE NUTS! I didn't and they worked themselves loose. Again learn from my bad experience. Having an axle disconnect itself why driving isn't that fun.

Where are the pics? Lol.

Cheers,
Berg

The lady has the camera right now so i didnt get to take any pics yet, will get it back as soon as the Celica is running again.

For the tranny side bolt. If i get that nut off, should the stud simply just slide out? i have a nut buster, so getting that nut off is no issue. But once that nut is destroyed shouldnt that bolt simply come out so i can remove that side of the axle and drop the motor?

Berg
12-31-2009, 04:51 PM
The stud probably wont fall out. Mine came out because the car was moving when it all came apart. You will likely have to press it out. Looking at it from end to end, there are the threads where the nut goes on, where the threads end it flares out a bit where it is press fit onto the part that the axle bolts to. You can double check if you have these studs by feeling the back of them. The side opposite the threads should feel like a small circle kind of like a coin.

I'm looking through all the diagrams to try and find what I'm talking about, but all the diagrams indicate that the axle has a bolt on the wheel side and then is just splined into the transaxle. All the diagrams are here: http://opc.mr2oc.com/

I'll keep looking for you. Everything I said in my las couple of posts was from memory from my celica with the 2S-E engine and matching transmission and may not neccessarily apply to your MR2. Double check everything before you just go ahead with my suggestions.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
01-03-2010, 06:52 PM
Berg thanks for the suggestions.

Used my 1/2 breaker bar, along with the handle for my pump jack and the nut came off in about 2 minutes. At the price of my breaker bar lol. No worries though, was worth it getting those damn things off.

Havent had time to go out an do any more work yet, weather out here sucks right now. Will get back to getting this thing out in the few few days, and ill take plenty of pics


And for the shafts, there is no nut on the other side for these axles. Looks lik im going to have to disconnect the hub and pull the axle as one piece. Would be so much easier if i could get this stripped bolt out. Think its impossible since its a hex bolt

Berg
01-04-2010, 12:05 AM
Take pics of the striped nuts and we'll figure something out. If I don't have a solution I'm sure someone here does. I can guarantee that you are not the first person to havet his problem.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
01-04-2010, 01:24 AM
Photobucket URL..Will be taking a lot more photos this week

http://s625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/WilliamRSCelica/89%20MR2%20SC/

Freshnicity
01-18-2010, 11:35 PM
Still putting a lot of work in the 2 right now, even though funds are low.

So right now im doing the following.

Pulling engine/trans from the 2 for a complete rebuild
working on exterior/interior of the car to bring it back to its once great self.

Before
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/WilliamRSCelica/89%20MR2%20SC/Picture020.jpg

As Of Now
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/WilliamRSCelica/89%20MR2%20SC/Picture054.jpg

Before
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/WilliamRSCelica/89%20MR2%20SC/100_1631.jpg

After a once over with rubbing compound and water
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/WilliamRSCelica/89%20MR2%20SC/Picture061.jpg

Berg
01-19-2010, 12:02 AM
I was thinking about posting asking if there was any progress.

When funds are low it can be hard to stay motivated with working on the car. It helps to do some of the little jobs that take a lot of time and very little money. This usually means cleaning. If you are looking for a little extra bling the cam covers are aluminum and can be polished up to a mirror finish. Personally I like to polish them up and then use some engine enamel to paint the letters embedded on them. But it's a personal touch, you may want to paint them entirely. Just have to keep yourself motivated, it'll be worth it in the end.

Cheers,
Berg

Freshnicity
01-19-2010, 12:13 AM
I was thinking about posting asking if there was any progress.

When funds are low it can be hard to stay motivated with working on the car. It helps to do some of the little jobs that take a lot of time and very little money. This usually means cleaning. If you are looking for a little extra bling the cam covers are aluminum and can be polished up to a mirror finish. Personally I like to polish them up and then use some engine enamel to paint the letters embedded on them. But it's a personal touch, you may want to paint them entirely. Just have to keep yourself motivated, it'll be worth it in the end.

Cheers,
Berg

Yeah man. It kinda sucks. Engine rebuild is costing me a lot of money, working part time because of school doesnt help as well. But i figure its worth it.

I edited the last set of pics, posted the same pics twice. Check it out. Going to redo the entire car again this week. Mario and Joe had agreed to help pull the rest of the engine/trans, shooting for the first week in Feb for that.

Good suggestion on the valve covers, honestly that didnt cross my mind, think ill start on that tomorrow on my break. Thanks Berg, youve been a big help.

Berg
01-19-2010, 03:48 AM
Having some guys comming around to give you a hand is a help. You have a good looking base to start from. Here's some valve polishing pages:

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=46085&page=1
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/619667-diy-intake-polishing.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ofhiNk-fo

Cheers,
Berg

Berg
02-01-2010, 08:24 PM
Updates?

Freshnicity
02-01-2010, 08:44 PM
As of now. None.

Funds are still low...well none right now. I just started school again so I had to buy books and lab equipment(making us wear uniforms now? weak). So all that $150 for parts went to that stuff.

Luckily, i got it all paid for, and next check will be a nice one, managed to log some extra hours and some odd jobs. Will be getting the block decked/bored/hone/painted hopefully with that money. So ill make sure to update, thanks for checking back.

Going to be disassembling the cylinder head also and doing a small writeup on that to keep me busy, so ill post that in here. Along with Supercharger resealing !


basically, im looking into getting a second "job" right now. Probably the reserves. I want to rebuild this engine, break it in, and get the 2 in a good running condition with most the body work done. And then start on the Celica. Planning on replacing the suspension and swapping to a gen 2 3sgte.

Freshnicity
02-28-2010, 01:19 AM
Storing the MR2 while im off for my military training.

Ill have more then enough money to finish her when I return.

Any advice on how to store it? Will a car cover be enough while im gone?

ill be gone for about 8 months