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View Full Version : I think I want a spyder



Hipster Lawrence
10-06-2009, 12:36 AM
I'm thinking of selling both my mk1s (the wrecked one and the 20v) and buying a cheap DD like an old corolla or something. Then trading my 03 civic Si in on a spyder.

I can't/won't have a car payment and I think my car is worth about 7k.

what do you guys think?

Luni
10-06-2009, 01:37 AM
A spyder is lame without a 2ZZ or a 2GR :p

T-spoon
10-06-2009, 01:49 AM
A spyder is lame without a 2ZZ or a 2GR :p

They aren't lame. They're faster than pretty much any stock celica except the 7g GTS and handle like crazy. They also have an extremely comfortable cabin (at least, my wife and I thought so, drove cross country 1200 miles with no Cruise and loved it).

That said, a 2ZZ would just totally bring the car alive.

Edit: But it depends on your definition of lame. Compared to a lot of things they're lame with a 1zz ;)

DudeMan
10-06-2009, 02:58 AM
No interest in a MKII?

Cavanagh
10-06-2009, 03:57 AM
A bit girly looking I think, the hardtops help that out. It would be a fun DD/project car regardless.

Hipster Lawrence
10-06-2009, 04:07 AM
No interest in a MKII?

Not really I'd like to do a vvti v6 mk2 but I just don't have the energy or the income for that.

If a 138 hp spyder is lame then a 112 hp mk1 must be über lame considering the mk1 is heavier than the mk3.

I'd do a 2zz 6mt swap eventually but honestly I'd probably be happy with the 1zz. I like cars that handle. I couldn't care less about big hp numbers not to say I wouldn't love a 200 hp mk3 cause I would.

85gtsblackman
10-06-2009, 04:50 AM
2zz in a mk1 would be interesting

CriScO
10-06-2009, 09:17 AM
Trade in Civic? Of course. Sell space wedges? No.

Hipster Lawrence
10-06-2009, 12:37 PM
There is only one 2zz mk1 I know of and it's over at mr2oc owned by a guy named "blown59".

Crisco I really don't want to get rid of the space wedge, but I can only have one toy. I can't drive a 2 seater every day since I have a 2 year old. Maybe in a few years and I won't need a stupid back seat.

the reasons I want a spyder,

lighter than mk1
faster than mk1
handles better than mk1
more modern/reliable (I know about all the 1zz problems but I'm convinced most of them are from the owners not changing the oil)
convertable
I won't have to fuck with it all the time.

Luni
10-06-2009, 04:48 PM
Yeah, 112hp MK1 is lame Larry. Im glad youre realizing this and moving on to better things :p (Mk2 owners ALWAYS get a rise out of MK1 owners by telling them their car is slow. Just like MK1 owners always get a rise out of MK2 owners by telling us our cars are fat pigs :p)

Hipster Lawrence
10-06-2009, 05:01 PM
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...

Freshnicity
10-06-2009, 05:18 PM
I like the spyders. Dont know about getting rid of your mk1s though lol especially that 20v swapped one.

i know theres dudes that are turbocharging the 1zz's and making good power out of them. Not sure what the cost to do it is, but I know you can pick up another 1ZZ for cheap lol.

Waffles!
10-06-2009, 05:44 PM
Personally, I hate the look of the Spyders, but I also hate the look of the MkI's. However, MKI's are awesome and kinda rare. Please do not sell your MkI's. Selling the Honduh? Now that's a completely different story.

Luni
10-06-2009, 06:09 PM
Id take an Mk3 over an MK1 any day of the week.

Im with Larry on this. The Mk3 is better in every way than the Mk1.

Mk2 on that matter, no sir. You Mk1 guys can talk all the yam and bam you want, but the bottom line is the Mk2s > all :p

andy
10-06-2009, 07:14 PM
stupid door stoppers.

http://www.vrdetailing.co.uk/images/MK1%201.jpg

http://tletravels.info/wordpress/images/stopper.jpg

Hipster Lawrence
10-06-2009, 11:25 PM
, but the bottom line is the Mk2s > all :p

Well I could get a nice turbo car for what I could get a mk3. I won't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind. I just keep thinking that the reliability won't be there. Plus they are fat pigs.

I'm pretty sure if I get rid of the mk1 I'll get a spyder but IDK Luni make the case for the mk2 over the mk1/mk3.

Luni
10-07-2009, 12:13 AM
I dunno Larry, if youve never really owned an MK2 or driven one, I dont think you really can say much.

Ive driven all 3. And honestly, I cant see why people are so enamored of the Mk1. My Mk2 with just the little bit of suspension and weight reduction seems to handle as good or better. MK3 handles GREAT, but its so light and so cheaply made I have a hard time coping. The difference in build quality between the 3 is a no brainer. Even Mk1s feel cheap compared to the Mk2s. Theyre just tanks. The interiors are so much higher quality, all the doors and body panels are so much more robust.

Mk1 SC cars weigh in at a tubby 2600-2700 lbs. MK2 turbo cars generally are 2800-2900 lbs. Mine weighs 2695. My car weighs about what an MK1 SC car weighs.

My car is funner to drive than the MK1 SC Ive driven. Its faster. It handles better. Its way more comfortable. It looks better. Has way more potential IMO. I think the only thing I DONT have is the reliability (although I havent had to work on my MR2 for quite a while now and I put like 50+ miles a day on the thing).

I dunno man. I mean, I know this isnt a thread about buying a MK2, but to be honest, for the money youd spend on a MK3, you could get a sick ass MK2 as you said.

Just find yourself an MK2 turbo without ABS, Powersteering, yank the air conditioning out, like I did. My car is WAY lighter than say... PearlJammzz 94 turbo. Or even BabyBears 91 turbo he just fucked up.

My car has them by at least 100+ lbs. Maybe more.

Hipster Lawrence
10-07-2009, 01:33 AM
I've driven a few na mk2s but not a turbo. I do like them and going by autox times it handles better than the mk1.

I just like the Spartan feel of the mk1 and 3. But I will see if I can drive my friends turbo

VikingJZ
10-07-2009, 05:01 PM
I have been looking for things to replace my Volvo with, simply because I want something newer.


An MR-S is what I'd like to get, but they're hard to find and not cheap.

Freshnicity
10-07-2009, 06:51 PM
I dunno Larry, if youve never really owned an MK2 or driven one, I dont think you really can say much.

Ive driven all 3. And honestly, I cant see why people are so enamored of the Mk1. My Mk2 with just the little bit of suspension and weight reduction seems to handle as good or better. MK3 handles GREAT, but its so light and so cheaply made I have a hard time coping. The difference in build quality between the 3 is a no brainer. Even Mk1s feel cheap compared to the Mk2s. Theyre just tanks. The interiors are so much higher quality, all the doors and body panels are so much more robust.

Mk1 SC cars weigh in at a tubby 2600-2700 lbs. MK2 turbo cars generally are 2800-2900 lbs. Mine weighs 2695. My car weighs about what an MK1 SC car weighs.

My car is funner to drive than the MK1 SC Ive driven. Its faster. It handles better. Its way more comfortable. It looks better. Has way more potential IMO. I think the only thing I DONT have is the reliability (although I havent had to work on my MR2 for quite a while now and I put like 50+ miles a day on the thing).

I dunno man. I mean, I know this isnt a thread about buying a MK2, but to be honest, for the money youd spend on a MK3, you could get a sick ass MK2 as you said.

Just find yourself an MK2 turbo without ABS, Powersteering, yank the air conditioning out, like I did. My car is WAY lighter than say... PearlJammzz 94 turbo. Or even BabyBears 91 turbo he just fucked up.

My car has them by at least 100+ lbs. Maybe more.

psh. Who needs a 2L Turbocharged engine? Its all about that 1.6L swapped to turbo

Considering I havent driven my 89 SC yet, i have no idea what it feels like. Driven a turbocharged MK2, and they are great. Completely different though from driving a RWD turbocharged car as far as power distribution goes. I chirped tires in every gear and was trying to go easy on it. Also had to let off like crazy on the turns.

KEEP THE MK1 LARRY. I need to use your knowledge of them to my advantage haha. Nah seriously though, should look into an MK2 Turbo..they are nice.

Luni
10-07-2009, 07:02 PM
MK1.5 is a cool car, but it still looks old, the interior still sucks ass, etc.

T-spoon
10-08-2009, 01:01 AM
MK1.5 is a cool car, but it still looks old, the interior still sucks ass, etc.

The interior really is pretty blocky and meh on the Mk1. The spyders seem like the interior is cheap and plastic-y (and they are) but somehow over time I liked the interior more and more. The steering wheel is awesome, the shifter is awesome and the seats are amazingly good.

Waffles!
10-08-2009, 04:45 AM
I've driven a few na mk2s but not a turbo. I do like them and going by autox times it handles better than the mk1.

I just like the Spartan feel of the mk1 and 3. But I will see if I can drive my friends turbo

I'd let you drive my 2, but she's an NA.

Luni brings up many good points about the MkIIs. Listen to him.

CriScO
10-08-2009, 06:28 AM
The lack of wedge love in this thread is distrubing.

Shadowlife25
10-08-2009, 10:26 AM
The lack of wedge love in this thread is distrubing.

"I find your lack of faith..Disturbing...."

Hipster Lawrence
10-08-2009, 12:41 PM
The lack of wedge love in this thread is distrubing.

Don't get me wrong. I love the mk1 it's what brought me to the mr2 world and the Toyota world in general. I would have never bought an mr2 had I not bought my silver mk1 so cheap. I would probably be looking at miatas right now.

As cool as the 20v swapped mk1 is I just don't have the passion for it I had for the silver car. It's like if your dog got ran over and your parents tried to bring you a new puppy.

I am considering widening my driveway getting rid of the wrecked car and keeping the 20v. I would need to save some cash for a corolla or tercell and then trade the civic for a spyder or mk2.

Again I'm not sure I can afford to be a mk2 turbo owner, but I am seriously considering it. Cruise over to mr2oc and look at the deals, the crap economy is doing great things to sports car prices.

goretro77
10-08-2009, 01:29 PM
I get to drive a Spyder with a 2ZZ I helped to swap in:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/Pauls_spyder/981132065_22c310fc24_o.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/Pauls_spyder/deconstruct2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/Pauls_spyder/allrednow_2zz.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/Pauls_spyder/deconstruct7_flintstone.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/Pauls_spyder/final2.jpg


Spyders are cool as long as they have the hardtop.

Hipster Lawrence
10-08-2009, 03:04 PM
I get to drive a Spyder with a 2ZZ I helped to swap in:



Cool and how does that compare to the elise?

Are those aftermarket chassis parts or one off?

I like the hardtop but I'd have no place to store it. Plus they are overpriced. Does the hardtop add any stiffness or just reduce weight?

goretro77
10-08-2009, 08:22 PM
Cool and how does that compare to the elise?

Are those aftermarket chassis parts or one off?

I like the hardtop but I'd have no place to store it. Plus they are overpriced. Does the hardtop add any stiffness or just reduce weight?

Adding the 2ZZGE made the Spyder come to life. The car was lots of fun before but is just that much more fun to drive with VVTLi.

Comparing it to the Elise is like apples to oranges. Still very different beasts since the suspension setups are totally different, Elise is still lighter, stiffer chassis stock vs stock. Lotus ECU manages to squeeze another 10 hp, better tires. Transitions are much faster in the Elise compared to the Spyder.

Still, the Spyder is hella fun! and great performance for the $.

Waffles!
10-08-2009, 10:14 PM
I was friends with a gay guy in high school who owned (and planned to sell until his mother ran her truck into) a Spyder that I wanted as one of my first vehicles.

Just throwing that out there.

KM
10-08-2009, 10:28 PM
I was friends with a gay guy in high school who owned (and planned to sell until his mother ran her truck into) a Spyder that I wanted as one of my first vehicles.

Just throwing that out there.


Meaning Spyders are infested with gays.
lulz.
(...I really wanted one, too.)

T-spoon
10-09-2009, 02:40 AM
I was friends with a gay guy in high school who owned (and planned to sell until his mother ran her truck into) a Spyder that I wanted as one of my first vehicles.

Just throwing that out there.

Interestingly enough, gay guys are still male. Also, anyone that drives a car ONLY for the image is really missing out. After owning one and selling it, my wife and I have it on a list of cars we'd buy again when/if it's practical, but definitely with a hardtop.

joe's gt
10-09-2009, 06:41 AM
I like the spyder. Looks like a blast to drive and I love the look.

renegadex
10-14-2009, 12:00 AM
The spyder is a cool car. The only thing I think the mk1 has on it is trunk space. I generally hate all body kits, but those cars look so good with a hard top and a TRD wide body kit.

GT4SOM
10-14-2009, 01:20 AM
You guys know that your motor is in the wrong end of the car right? haha j/k

I would do a spyder with a 2zz in it. I think I would probably just purchase a mk2 turbo for all the trouble.

Blackcloud
10-14-2009, 01:26 AM
wtf random column in garage?

and donna has/or had a spyder

KoreanJoey
10-14-2009, 10:05 PM
If you could cram a 2GR into a spyder I'd probably kill for the car, assuming it handled alright.

Luni
10-14-2009, 10:37 PM
You CAN cram a 2GR into a spyder young grasshopper. :)

Hipster Lawrence
10-15-2009, 12:47 PM
That'd be one hell of a swap. But I think it would throw the balance of the car off a little and that's the whole point of a spyder. Plus by the time you get done with the swap you could have bought a lotus.

I think a better option would be to FI the 1zz or do an FI 2zz swap if that's not enough. But honestly 150 hp to the wheels in a 2100 lb car should be more than enough for just about anyone on public roads.

KoreanJoey
10-16-2009, 02:22 AM
Ok, even if you bought the lotus you wouldn't have the AWESOME power/torque curve of the 2GR. It's an all aluminum motor so it's not that heavy (but probably a bit more than stock) again, I don't know what it'd do to the handling but honestly it's still mid mounted and it can't be as much of a pendulum as a 911...

Hipster Lawrence
10-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Ok I just drove an es350 for the first time today and wow that 2gr is something else. I only went 1/2 throttle and was impressed.


The 1zz is all aluminum too. so I would guess the v6 probably weighs 50% more or so. It would be a hell of a swap.

How much would a GR-e 1/2 cut cost and what trans would you use?

Luni
10-16-2009, 09:44 PM
Actually, I believe the weights have been documented.

The difference between the 2 isnt as much as youd think.

Hipster Lawrence
10-17-2009, 01:23 AM
If I hit the lotto tonight I'll do a twin sequential turbo 2gr spyder. I've got 33 chances

90CelicaAllTrac
10-20-2009, 01:15 AM
Spyder is not the same as the MK1 or MK2. MK1 was pretty basic. MK2 was like a ferrari. And Toyota stopped selling them, just like the supra, because very costly to build and they got too expensive.

If anyone is interested, and I know this isn't the for sale site, I want some feedback on people honestly looking to buy a spyder. I have a 2000 I factory ordered. It has just under 15K miles. No accidents, no issues, no blemishes.

I also have a '90 all trac I thought of selling about a year ago because things were needing replacement. I didn't get the offers I wanted on the all trac so I decided to have it fixed. I am so happy nobody wanted to pay me fair money for the all trac.

I luckily found a very good tech and have replaced the engine, the clutch, the valves, sensors, etc. Car is amazing. Newest 2 projects are having the system 10 stereo rebuilt and replacing the rack.

I am keeping the all trac. I have spent around $5000 fixing it (with the parts) and every penny has been worth it.

Spyder is a cool ride. It snaps heads. It is very fuel efficient. It is easy to work on. It is a sporty coupe, not a sports car. Every time I park it, or put gas in it, someone comes over to admire the car. It is all about how it looks and how you look in it. It is very light, so it is fairly quick off the line, but you do have to push the RPMs to get true power out of the car.

The main thing I don't agree with from a post above is quality. Very well built. All steel. I'd put it just below the Camry on the Toyota reliability factor. Not costly to maintain. I would not see this as a person's only car however, even if you live somewhere where there is no snow or icy weather.

Hipster Lawrence
10-20-2009, 01:32 AM
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on the mk1 being basic. For it's time it was far from basic it had fuel injection and 4 wheel discs when even most imports were still carburated. You could power door locks & windows it came stock with a subwoofer. Automatic climate control was optional as was leather. So yeah basic by 2009 standards but not by 1985 standards.

I'll also disagree with you on the spyder not being a sports car. Why do you say that because it's underpowered? I mean it is a topless high revving mid engine car that weighs a little over 2000 lbs if that's not a sports car I don't know what is. A civic is a sporty coupe. If a spyder is not a sports car then is a miata?

I can't afford a spyder with only 15k. But what are you trying to get for it and what color is it. Ideally I want an 01 green or black with tan leather and a clutch. But if the price is right I'd take any color even yellow. My budget is going to be around 7-9k so I'm leaning more towards ones with 100k or so miles.

90CelicaAllTrac
10-21-2009, 12:40 AM
I had an '87 MR2. It was red, not turbo, with sun roof, 5 speed. From what Toyota said, when it advertised the MR2 spyder, Toyota was returning to the original.

I think not.

'87, when I sold it, had just under 30K miles. A guy flew in from California to buy it.

I loved the looks of the car, and it drove well. But it was a heavier car, so it was more stable than the spyder. To deal with the changes in the design, Toyota put on some pretty pricey tires, front smaller than back.

From what I know, people do race the spyders, but they are significantly modified. From what I know, people remove the a/c, the hard top is very desired, and people put on bigger tires 17 and 18's.

The MK2 is like having an all trac tuned for speed, mid engine. All Trac, when it was sold new, was a very expensive car. In today's money, despite the economy, an all trac or an MK2 would cost over $40000 easily.

In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, now that my all trac is back to "spec," no comparison with the 3rd MR2. Nice enough car. More in line with a Miata than an MR2, but more power than a Miata. More classy than a Miata.

Mine is black with custom black leather. (Leather wasn't a factory option until --I believe, 2003). Except for the tail lights, add of fog lights and a power antenna, no difference between a 2000 and a 2005 spyder. Of course there was the "automatic" option, which was essentially a clutch-less manual because you had to hit this little wimpy silver shifter, the issue on a used spyder is finding one in good condition with low miles.

I don't think there would be a problem finding a spyder under 100K miles for around 7K. The higher the miles, the more it might have seen some daily commuting issues (more likely in the areas where there is no snow), or in other areas, a car that hasn't been raced and abused.

Because the car was a teaser for Toyota, and sold in low numbers purposefully, spyders are out there for sale. I think probably the better cars, private party sales, would be more in the 10K range.

Insurance wise, spyder is rated as a sports car, with no back seat, so depending on your age, it might be costly to insure. Mine costs me about $600 per year with a $250 deductible but I have a good driving record and I am not in the under 25 age group that seems to get penalty points no matter what for insurance.

To me, spyder is like having an extremely high end motorcycle. It excels on twisty roads. It scoots off the line. But in the grand scheme of things, lots of cars are faster.

Repairs on my all trac were done by a NASCAR tech. I had no idea that this car had the capabilities it does. I think it is too bad that Toyota had given up on sports cars.

KoreanJoey
10-21-2009, 07:45 AM
05 had an option LSD :) Big diff.

Hipster Lawrence
10-21-2009, 01:53 PM
I'm not trying to start the what is a sports car debate but the all-trac is NOT a sports car. It's a GT you might even call it a hot hatch but I think it's more than that.


Yeah I've seen 100k spyders go for pretty cheap. I'm not too worried about insurance I run $1500 deductibles so I should come in at less than 6 a year.

I am going to drive an SMT car before I decide on which one to buy. I am considering the SMT though it seems kind of cool. But I've heard horror stories about them breaking.

KoreanJoey
10-22-2009, 06:24 AM
God the SMT on the spyder is absolute garbage. Most automatics with paddles shift faster than this "manual" transmission.

Stay away from it.

90CelicaAllTrac
10-23-2009, 12:39 AM
All trac is and was special. More than a GT. Kind of like the stock corvette that mimics what was actually raced, but it isn't a "race car."

I think very few bought the spyder with the auto paddle shifters. Complaint on the standard transmission was the long throw between gears. It actually has a much shorter "throw" than the stock manual in an all trac.

I personally haven't had any issues with the shifter on the spyder or the all trac. I got 125K on the original clutch on the all trac before I replaced it. I recently had my spyder completely checked out and the original everything was to spec. Of course my spyder has under 15K, so realistically, 2 years of driving though it is 9.

But all parts were like new, didn't need any fluid changes. Did have the throttle body cleaned due to some varnish developing, and a wheel alignment.

I use Amsoil oil and filters, and I change oil every 3 months on the celica period. Twice a year on the spyder.

Reading here, yes you can find a spyder on the cheap. Just be careful and have it checked. You might find a decent one for sale on spyderchat.com
mr2.com really is no longer an active site but if you go into their past threads, the mr2 guys didn't think much of the MRS until almost the end of production. They always thought highly of the all trac (for good reason, it is basically the same car).

Likely I will just keep both my cars. I still think the MRS is a leisure fun car, like having a high end motorcycle, and the all trac is the real car. Now that it is "fixed" and not replaceable, I need to think about getting a third car I guess. Hopefully the winter won't be as harsh as the last 2.