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View Full Version : Rebuild ST165 vs 205 Swap



alistair
09-28-2009, 03:41 AM
Alright, so I need some help making a decision.

I want to get about 300WHP out of my Alltrac. Should I rebuild my 1st gen 3sgte, or look at swapping in a ST185/205.

My question is, is the 2nd/3rd gen 3sgte engine so much more advanced than the 165 that I shouldn't bother rebuilding my 1st gen 3sgte?

Theres not much wrong with my block, other than the valve's needing work, seals needing replacing, Power steering needs fixing, and there might be an issue with the HG.

Thoughts/Opinions?

METDeath
09-28-2009, 04:34 AM
205 swap, you get so much done with it.

You ditch the AFM, no TVIS to mess up on you, FAR better turbo, better flowing head, the list goes on.

Rick89GTS
09-30-2009, 08:52 AM
^What he said, not to mention that sweet 205 WTA IC.
Or go with the CS/RC 185. Either way, the 2nd & 3rd gen 3SGTE have much more support available and are better platforms for mods.

RedRkt01
09-30-2009, 05:12 PM
I second all of that. That's why I got a 4th Gen to go into my 4th Gen (a la Pimp yo Ride)......

alistair
10-02-2009, 06:37 PM
Do you have a writeup on your 215 swap?

That's the other thing I've been pondering, as it seems easier to source low KM ST215 engines than the 205's. So I'm almost wondering if I should just drop in a 215.

Rick89GTS
10-04-2009, 09:50 PM
^Just keep in mind parts availability for the 215 may be even more difficult than for the 205.

RedRkt01
10-05-2009, 02:14 AM
^Just keep in mind parts availability for the 215 may be even more difficult than for the 205.

They're almost identical engines.....so parts availability is really not that big of an issue compared to the 3rd Gen.

alistair, I have no write up.

dckilla
10-06-2009, 04:19 AM
The ST215 has coil-on-plug, the turbine section built into the manifold, 9:1 compression, and top mounted ATA intercooler. I would say there are differences. You will not find one stock with a manual tranny.

Rick89GTS
10-06-2009, 07:51 AM
^And you don't see any 215s around. At least up here in Canada, we're getting the 205s imported now.

alwayzsidewayz
10-13-2009, 09:54 AM
The more swapped 4th gens the better, all the more gen 1 bits for me!!!

Head work, cams, and a boost increase amongst others should see me about 330bhp, all on my little old gen 1 std short block with 100k on it.

I feel the love for the gen 1 3sgte even if no one else does :-(

RedRkt01
10-13-2009, 03:13 PM
The 215 has higher compression than that due to the type of fuel being used in it. I think it is more in line with the 9.8 - 10.1 range.

4thgenceli
10-13-2009, 06:40 PM
BUt with the higher compression, the piss poor fuel here in the US would cause damage though correct?

ChrisD
10-13-2009, 06:45 PM
205 swap without a doubt. You have to do so much work to the gen 1 to get it up to par it isn't even funny.

dckilla
10-13-2009, 11:45 PM
The 215 has higher compression than that due to the type of fuel being used in it. I think it is more in line with the 9.8 - 10.1 range.

It's 9:1 compression.

RedRkt01
10-14-2009, 03:49 AM
It's 9:1 compression.

Wanna quote your source? Those engines only saw action in the JDM and surrounding areas. They were built for use with higher octane gas. Higher octane gas has a higher threshold to reach before combustion. Thus the need for higher CR. So don't just requote yourself as if it's fact because you say so; Quote your source.

dckilla
10-14-2009, 11:11 PM
Wanna quote your source? Those engines only saw action in the JDM and surrounding areas. They were built for use with higher octane gas. Higher octane gas has a higher threshold to reach before combustion. Thus the need for higher CR. So don't just requote yourself as if it's fact because you say so; Quote your source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine
http://www.mr2.com/forums/turbo-3s-gte/Toyota-MR2-40511-what-we-have-been-up-take-look.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=st215+caldina+9.0%3A1&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
And yes, because I said so.

RedRkt01
10-15-2009, 01:22 AM
[url]And yes, because I said so.

Okay, so no Toyota publications? Wiki and forums don't really cut it. That's called speculation and conjecture.

Go piss up some other tree with your 4 posts, smartass. Welcome to the community........it seems you know how to make friends.

As far as I'm concerned you still don't know anything. Wanna know why? Because I say so, that's why. :wavingfuc

CriScO
10-15-2009, 05:20 AM
Settle down guys.

Third gen GTE compression is 8.5:1, 9:1 for the 215 model.

Red, every source I've seen says the same thing. Later GE's got up to like 11:1, but it was never more than 9:1 on the GTE. Of course I can't say I'm 100% on it without reading it myself in a BGB, but it makes perfect sense. For naturally aspirated engines you want higer CR, for turbo you want lower.



I want the discussion on this to end here, if there are any issues handle them via PM.

RedRkt01
10-15-2009, 02:09 PM
Chris, I'll be the little spoon ;)