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CriScO
06-30-2009, 10:38 AM
Since nobody answered me the first time I'm gonna rephrase and try this again. :)

Are there any forseeable issues with using a first gen 3S-GE ECU with a second gen head?

If the head were from a second gen GTE, would it pose additional problems?

Main goal here is to get said head on the coupe's block. Story is that I kept the ECU from my GT-S, and I have a friend that has a mildly built GTE head he doesn't need. Head is complete, valve covers and all.

All I can think is that I'll need a GE throttle body for the full-range TPS, timing covers, and distributor. Are there any other sensors the ECU will look for that I may be missing? Any mechanical differences I'm overlooking?

anachranerd
07-06-2009, 01:18 AM
To be sure I understand you, you have a 1st gen ge block + ECU, and you want to use a GTE head on it?

Dude, I could be totally wrong here. But I dont think there should be a problem with the ECU.

I would defer to the other folks on here about the mechanical aspects of it. I.e all the coolant/oil passages lining up, etc.

But as far as the ecu goes, I would assume you are ok. Does your GE distributor fit the GTE head? That is my first thought. Another distributor -might- have different pinouts for its wires.

If you are using a GE ECU, I would use the GE TPS as well. Im not sure if the signal is the exact same between generations.

Ill double check my engine tonight. I got a 1st gen 3sge out of the car right now.

Im mostly concerned about the mechanics of it. LIke all the passages for coolant and oil. Double and triple check that before you do anything else.

CriScO
07-06-2009, 06:25 AM
Not quite. We'd be be putting a second gen G head from a turbo block on a 3S block built for the F head. The ECU is from a first gen 3S-GE.

I'm not as concerned about the mechanical as the electrical. I'll of course double check, but I'm fairly sure the castings for all three have identical passages. Internals are much weaker in my block, but that's not an issue(other than throwing the rods, but that's got nothing to do with it working :hehe: ). Swapping distributors is inconsequential, that's easy.

My main concern is the T-VIS system. I'm not familiar with how the ECU handles it.

anachranerd
07-07-2009, 12:50 AM
uhhhh. hummm.

Do you have the 3sge harness? Or the 3sfe...

Shit. Come to think of it...the 3sfe has the dizzy with the built in coil. my 3sge has a coil that is completely separate from the dizzy. I dont know if the plug on the harness would be the same.

Damnit, my head is spinning just thinking of this. And my wiring diagram is buried somewhere. Son of a bitch, I tore out the pages for the 3sfe. Lemme keep digging.

The tvis should be ok. What im concerned about is that the butterfly valves line up with the head correctly. And that your harness plug attaches ok to the vacuum switch for your tvis.

Freshnicity
07-07-2009, 01:50 AM
uhhhh. hummm.

Do you have the 3sge harness? Or the 3sfe...

Shit. Come to think of it...the 3sfe has the dizzy with the built in coil. my 3sge has a coil that is completely separate from the dizzy. I dont know if the plug on the harness would be the same.

Damnit, my head is spinning just thinking of this. And my wiring diagram is buried somewhere. Son of a bitch, I tore out the pages for the 3sfe. Lemme keep digging.

The tvis should be ok. What im concerned about is that the butterfly valves line up with the head correctly. And that your harness plug attaches ok to the vacuum switch for your tvis.

I think the internal/external distributor swap is pretty easy, think Crisco said he can do that.

Not sure how the TVIS would work though? obvisouly the ECM's are different right? I mean, one that has the TVIS would be programmed to open that up at a certain time, right?

CriScO
07-07-2009, 05:08 AM
Do you have the 3sge harness? Or the 3sfe...
FE.


Shit. Come to think of it...the 3sfe has the dizzy with the built in coil. my 3sge has a coil that is completely separate from the dizzy. I dont know if the plug on the harness would be the same.
I've converted my coil to external already. Basically, if the distributor fits I'll keep the original, if not I'll change the plug to fit the G style. That part's easy. :) I know the crank end is identical on both, it's the bolt pattern I'm not 100% on.



And that your harness plug attaches ok to the vacuum switch for your tvis.
T-Vis vaccum switch... Thank you, that's one I'll have to look into.

anachranerd
07-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Not sure how the TVIS would work though? obvisouly the ECM's are different right? I mean, one that has the TVIS would be programmed to open that up at a certain time, right?

Well, if it opens at a slightly different RPM than the FE, I dont think it will HURT anything. Just gotta make sure the pins are the same on the ecu. Gotta find my fe pinout. It buried in the pile of random shit in my garage :eek:

Mafix
07-10-2009, 03:18 AM
i don't think that will work at all but if you must.
you will need a GE harness. you can use the GTE upper half (although i don't know why, i've sold several FE's for 50 bucks running) but you will need all the parts. intake is different, afm is different, TPS, IAC, dizzy, coil, TVIS, Knock, ect.
pretty much just drop in the entire G motor and be done with said swap.
ultimately the only engine you can use the FE harness on is a FE. it will not work on any G series.

CriScO
07-10-2009, 05:34 AM
^ There we go.

It was really a "well, the parts are there" thing, I don't have any real interest in going GE with this car. One or two plugs is one thing, rewiring the harness isn't worth the trouble.

I'm still curious as to how the ECU would work with the head, but I can research that later.

Mafix
07-10-2009, 03:06 PM
the FE ecu won't work. at all. you'll need a GTE or GE ecu. gen1 of course for that harness. but it simply wont work with the FE harness. it would be easier to sway the harness than to try and make it work.

CriScO
07-10-2009, 08:05 PM
the FE ecu won't work. at all. you'll need a GTE or GE ecu. gen1 of course for that harness. but it simply wont work with the FE harness. it would be easier to sway the harness than to try and make it work.
No, first gen GE ecu with second gen GTE head.

Mafix
07-10-2009, 08:17 PM
yes that will work i was just saying the rest.

tekstep01
07-11-2009, 12:36 PM
crisco, save yourself some confusion
the Fe harness will work depending on what your using (ignition-wise, and -VISwise)
with sum mods/pin work/soldering
to run the head, you will need to delete TVIS though, as the intake is slightly diffrent and the VIS butterflys wont close properly.
also you will want to use the gte HG only for the oil passages/cooling.

the block will need to be cleaned, bearings/seals refreshed, as your adding almost 20 hp to the crank with the (inependant/free-wheeling) DOHC head.
use the drain plug and a T to add more flow to the block.
oil-pump operation is key though so make sure thats up to spec.

the first gen ecu is a great platform though, as i have run a great deal of "concoctions" on it with ease. tps, icv, and tvis all have to be replaced with 2nd gen vsv/ecu inputs for full range of throttle, and an ideal idle rate.

now i must ask why all the trouble for a FE knock-making block?
buy a cheap 1st gen Block, at least, so you can rev past 4k without it sounding like its gonna blow-up.....

now a good way to do this is a all first gen ge ecu/harness. running a fe block with a complete GE head plopped on (great tourqe! and pretty reliable) but you get "lean"
side-effects, due to compression diffrences.

you can run a second gen head with the firsts equiptment for sure witout TVIS, and some smog/ emmisions equipment deleted.

but heres one, i got a bunch of 2nd gen ge stuff, for sale/trade
including:
2nd gen GE head
intake
oilcooler
partial harness's & leads.

I used a FE harness to build around my first attempt, 3sge 2.0 because it had all the 89' and up plugs. that match the equiptment on the second-gen, including the ignition

infact, i myself have seen the FE ECU run the 2.0!
unfortunatly poorly though! and it took heavy modifications to make it run right.

my current motor is an 3sge 2.0 running on a 1st gen ecu.
it runs great, im still trying to find out how to get the darn thing to idle right, as the 2nd gen has a electronic Idle CV, and the first is mechanical.
other than that its on!
slap that puppy together and give er' a shot just fir the hell ov it!
youll never regret trying!

looool!
Goodluck and godspeed with that!