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View Full Version : Got the 3s now what?



ryansk8
06-28-2009, 06:30 AM
Well, some of you may know i was looking to buy a 3sgte.

Yes i got one. Its from a 91 GT-FOUR

have everything for it, not a single line or wire is cut.

Putting into my 90 GT-S

Air to air inter , ceramic turbine blah blah.

not quite sure on how to go about wiring this sum bitch though.

i know you'll just say read the threads but idk which way to go about it....

also, i want to throw on a downpipe, and headers. and stage two clutch.

should i put the engine in first? and worry about that stuff later?

Grot
06-28-2009, 06:32 AM
Get clutch while engine is out.

Wiring, easiest way is to talk to Dr. Tweak but hes not cheap tho.

bccentaur3
06-28-2009, 07:28 AM
wouldn't it just be plug and play. Maybe need to extend the harness to go to the factory position, but 90 to 91 is plug and play is it not?

joe's gt
06-28-2009, 08:08 AM
Unless you mistakenly said GT4 in place of all-trac, your gonna need to extend the harness or drill a whole through the firewall. I don't believe your 3rd ecu plug on your interior is plug and play either. Might need to be some wiring changes there.

I echo the "do the clutch while the engine is out" statement.

Also, for Cali, get rid of that TMIC ASAP. It is going to heat soak like crazy in the California heat. FMIC FTW!!!

Freshnicity
06-28-2009, 08:38 AM
Unless you mistakenly said GT4 in place of all-trac, your gonna need to extend the harness or drill a whole through the firewall. I don't believe your 3rd ecu plug on your interior is plug and play either. Might need to be some wiring changes there.

I echo the "do the clutch while the engine is out" statement.

Also, for Cali, get rid of that TMIC ASAP. It is going to heat soak like crazy in the California heat. FMIC FTW!!!

+1 for Cali heat.

Hard as hell on your engine during the summer, not to mention a turbo'ed motor? FMIC from the start.

Depending on what you need done for the harness, maybe talk to tweak if you have the money to spend.

presure2
06-28-2009, 04:59 PM
do anything and everything you can afford to do now, while the motor is out.
timing belt, waterpump, tensioner, cam seals are all things that should be done while the motor is out, especially on a motor thats 18yrs old at this point.
personally, i would do every seal and hose i could, and if you cant afford to do it all at once, wait to install the motor, you'll be glad you did in the end.

ryansk8
06-28-2009, 11:24 PM
So the wiring isnt as hard as i was assuming?

some of it is plug and play?

And throw that top mount away huh...
what size front mount should i get?

and yes its a GT4 engine its JDM.

oooh and i was going to go buy a water pump, timing belt, oil pump ect but i wasnt sure if the jdm 3s was the same as the usdm alltrac 3s is it not?

because i was just going to go buy the parts at autozone :]

any other suggestions?!

thanks guys

joe's gt
06-28-2009, 11:46 PM
Since its jdm you are going to have to drill a hole or extend the harness.

Bunch of threads on here about fmic and piping routes. Just search around for that.

DO NOT BUY ANY TIMING STUFF OR WATER PUMP FROM AUTOZONE!!!

For timing, seals, and pump get everything OEM and LISTEN to presure2 about doing everything you can afford while the engine is out. If you can't, I would wait till you can afford it before you put the engine in. Otherwise your 3s will be a money pit like mine was.

I can't stress enough about getting the oem water pump. There have been a lot of problems with non-oem pump failures.

PLEASE DON'T PUT THE ENGINE IN until you can afford these things. Take it from experience from a fellow swapper who did everything wrong the first time. You will be spending years after fixing stuff if you don't follow these suggestions. AND DUMP THE TMIC ASAP!!!

ryansk8
06-29-2009, 12:50 AM
alright thanks haha no autozone...

but is the water pump and timing belt the same for the USDM 3sgte and the JDM 3sgte?

maxaud
06-29-2009, 01:53 AM
I would do a sprung hub 6 puck clutch and a downpipe. Wouldn't really worry about the headers.

joe's gt
06-29-2009, 02:06 AM
alright thanks haha no autozone...

but is the water pump and timing belt the same for the USDM 3sgte and the JDM 3sgte?

Absolutely, I believe the only difference between the two is the ecu.

Carolina91GT-S
06-29-2009, 05:53 PM
The ECU is different and the JDM 3SGTE has no EGR system. So yes, the parts you will buy for a USDM All-trac will work just fine.

ChrisD
06-29-2009, 06:15 PM
ditto to the above. Add cam seals, hose from hell...I think you can buy a complete gasket kit from Toyota which should have mostly everything.

The stock cat is rather difficult to get out when in the car. If you can get the downpipe now, do it while the engine is out.

Also don't bother with headers, or more technically the exhaust manifold, the stock one is not a restriction and most aftermarket ones are prone to cracking.

ryansk8
06-29-2009, 06:50 PM
Ok thanks..

I bought a full gasket set, so im going to replace mostly all of them, should i do the head too? cause i didnt really want to tear down too far..

Dustin what is that flywheel you got? is it a stock one with weight reduction?

and what about fitting it to the tranny? dont i need to mad scientist it a little bit?

maxaud
06-29-2009, 06:52 PM
The flywheel I have i a lightened flywheel, not sure of the brand.
I can tell you when I get back from California.

ryansk8
06-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Awesome!

I keep staring at that MKIV in my driveway haha i think im in love,

but anyways..

i need that water pump housing thingy would that one off my 5s fit? looks similar

and i drove my celica for the first time in months, forget she needed so much TLC i need to get an axle at least for the drivers side

and front rotors, but i want to get slotted and drilled ones..

Smaay
06-29-2009, 09:02 PM
get a clutch and flywheel combo from Southbend clutch.. www.southbendclutch.com call and talk to Andy. tell him what you have and plan on doing . he will hook you up with the perfect clutch. fidanza is the flywheel you want.

And definatly change that out with the engien out of the car. and you should also replace the valve guide seals in the head. those get hard and leak and then you smoke.

ryansk8
06-29-2009, 11:22 PM
ok will do. I found today that the alternator is different with the 3s is it not?

i thought my 5s one would work with it.. damn it cause i just bought a brand new one like a couple months ago

joe's gt
06-30-2009, 03:20 AM
Should be the same, I think just the bracket is different. As long as you got the bracket on the 3s engine still, you should be good. There is a bar that goes from the bracket to the chassis, although I don't know how important that really is. Just use the 3s alternator till it goes bad. Those things are rock solid and often last well over 100k miles and often for the life of the vehicle.

The amperage also might be different depending on whether you had an auto or manual 5s. If you had a manual, I think the alternator was 70 amp and automatic it was 80 amps.

ryansk8
06-30-2009, 10:42 PM
Yea i have manual, you said use the 3s one? i dont have it lol

thats why i was wondering if i could just use the 5s one..

hmmm..

what would be different about them? same car.. idk

Lagos
06-30-2009, 11:38 PM
look around at some of the build threads on this site and 6gc as well. they should give you some ideas on how to proceed.

joe's gt
07-01-2009, 02:19 AM
If you have a manual, you got the 70 amp one unfortunately. The 3s uses an 80 amp. I found one from the junker and its lasted 2 yrs so far without any problems. Don't get anything but OEM for the alternator. Parts store ones have a history of premature failure on these engines.

A 90-99 camry with an automatic 5s will have one that works as well as a 5th gen A/T 5s. Others might be compatible as well.

ryansk8
10-19-2009, 04:19 AM
I need help guys, im just about ready to do the swap minus a few parts.. im guessing i'll start it within the month ive rebuilt the 3s all new gaskets and seals and since im lucky enough i had the turbo rebuilt (step dad owns a turbo company :) ) anyways i have no problems mechanically infact ive done my fare share plus some with engine work. But wiring and diagrahms are not my thing so if anyone could help me through the process i would greatly appreciate it.. I have the complete wiring harness w/ fuse boxes, ecu and all..



which reminds me, if anyone needs a turbo rebuilt or even a custom turbo built lmk i can get it cheap if not cost.

Also, its a machine shop, can basically make just about anything out of metal (aluminum especially) and engraving.. $500,000 machines so dont be afraid to ask..

only cause your celica lovers :wiggle:

Grot
10-19-2009, 04:25 AM
if you can spare $400ish send it to Dr. Tweak and have him make a plug and play wiring harness

ryansk8
10-19-2009, 04:28 AM
Yea, but i want to do it myself for experience.. besides i hate sending anything to a shop if i could handle it myself

andy
10-19-2009, 05:56 AM
that swap be easy, only like 7 wires to change over on the 3rd ecu plug, everything else is a plug in play.

maxaud
10-19-2009, 07:45 AM
Good luck Ryan, hope it goes over easy for ya.

Shadowlife25
10-19-2009, 09:48 AM
Ryan: Where in CA are you exactly?

I may possibly be able to help if you are close enough.

maxaud
10-19-2009, 05:10 PM
He's located in Victorville just off of the 15.

ryansk8
10-19-2009, 09:22 PM
Thanks dustin! :) hows the supra?

ryansk8
10-22-2009, 06:11 PM
I need help guys, im just about ready to do the swap minus a few parts.. im guessing i'll start it within the month ive rebuilt the 3s all new gaskets and seals and since im lucky enough i had the turbo rebuilt (step dad owns a turbo company :) ) anyways i have no problems mechanically infact ive done my fare share plus some with engine work. But wiring and diagrahms are not my thing so if anyone could help me through the process i would greatly appreciate it.. I have the complete wiring harness w/ fuse boxes, ecu and all..



which reminds me, if anyone needs a turbo rebuilt or even a custom turbo built lmk i can get it cheap if not cost.

Also, its a machine shop, can basically make just about anything out of metal (aluminum especially) and engraving.. $500,000 machines so dont be afraid to ask..

only cause your celica lovers :wiggle:


Bump :)

rizin
10-24-2009, 06:20 AM
On the third plug it is not that hard. When you look at the wiring diagram going to the ecu it gives you a letter and number. Letter is the plug and number is the positon. I found it helps to look at the plug in the car and look at the diagram gives you more of an idea. Hopefully that helps you out a little.

zen
10-24-2009, 09:46 AM
nice, you finally found a 3sgte. where did you get it from? did you ever check out that cst motors i told you about in ontario, ca? anyways, i have the bgb for the celica if you want to use it. i could lend it to you. during my swap, this book helped me the most than internet sources. plus, we have little celica meets here in riverside, ca sometimes and you should check it out. so far, all my buddies drive 4th gen alltrac, except for me and one of my buddy. you should come check it out sometimes. it usually takes place on thursday nights at adams track where there is drifting going on.

zen
10-29-2009, 02:42 AM
you should also read this thread made by the doc himself since you want to experience it youself.
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6359&highlight=wiring+secrets

maxaud
10-29-2009, 07:06 PM
Thanks dustin! :) hows the supra?
Doing well, that loser who sold it to me still hasn't got me the title yet.
You should see if you can get a hold of him and have him get it to me.

rizin
10-29-2009, 07:23 PM
Another good thread to read if you haven't. http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81
Thanks to ChrisD for the link.

xeril
11-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Make sure you have the proper connector for the third plug. I had to get mine off of an auto-transmissioned 5sfe I believe. (btw, isn't this plug mostly unnecessary?? its definitely worthwhile to do since it gives you CEL etc, but it'll run with this unplugged.)

Also, what transmission are you using? If you are using the transmission that came with your car, be sure to remember you need to use the 5sfe clutch with the 3sgte flywheel... or consult with one of the clutch companies and have them put the correct splines into a 3sgte clutch.