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Malus
05-21-2009, 09:20 PM
SOooo since Obama announced the future of cars in the U.S. I've been wondering how will that effect us and our desire to drive Celicas / classic cars in general. I know most probably don't know for sure. what are some of the ideas on it here? and how do you think it will work?

grayscale
05-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Fuck'em. I'll drive whatever I want.

Cavanagh
05-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Fuck'em. I'll drive whatever I want.
X a million!!!

Trance4c
05-21-2009, 09:26 PM
^ I'm with grayscale. I would not allow them to dictate what I will drive, I live in a free country and as a consumer I am able to choose myself.


Regardless, these regulations are for mass produced cars in 2016 and on. They will never apply to us.

Besides, many and more are about to pass into the 20+ year old category which automatically makes them 'classics'. This will automatically make them exempt to any regulation in many states.

Each states laws will be more important than what Obama said.

VikingJZ
05-21-2009, 09:47 PM
CAFE standards.

I'm fine with new cars getting better mileage. Actually, I'm all for it.

Only place it will affect is the truck and high performance sales industry. Though, trucks have a lower restriction than cars.

19celica90
05-21-2009, 09:56 PM
it will not effect any of the Celicas or cars considered to be classic.

importrcr13
05-21-2009, 10:01 PM
So wait... we drive celicas?!

VikingJZ
05-22-2009, 06:58 AM
"These are not Supras, man. Are you mildly fucking retarded?"


Mine gets over 30MPG...

Galcobar
05-22-2009, 08:07 AM
Actually, these requirements make absolutely no impression on your ability to choose to drive a large-engined vehicle -- it'll just make it harder to find them NEW.

Remember, the standards are for the entire production line; it's the same way manufacturers can claim a large proportion of their fleets are low-emission due to their ability to run on E85 -- even though the vast majority of flex-fuel vehicles will never see E85 in the tank.

The Captain
05-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Obama would have made Karl Marx would so proud. . .

Malus
05-22-2009, 01:07 PM
Obama would have made Karl Marx would so proud. . .

ROFL I completely agree. I was doing some surfing on this and saw a pic of Obama's limo. I would bet he doesn't get that replaced when his emissions go through.

tuner4life
05-22-2009, 01:20 PM
Obama would have made Karl Marx would so proud. . .


x2

The first thing I thought about when he said that was that his limo and the other 10 vehicles that it takes to transport his piece of shit ass around had better all get 35 mpg. Looks like I will probably never own a car newer than 2016. The part that I think is funny is that the automakers are having enough trouble selling new cars as it is. Now the government is imposing these restrictions. It just seems that after wasting an ungodly amount of money trying to revive the pretty much comatose US automotive industry, now they are kicking the automakers when they're down just because Obama has a tree hugger agenda. Makes me want to go burn tires and kill baby bunnies. :bigthumbu

Trance4c
05-22-2009, 02:00 PM
Obama would have made Karl Marx would so proud. . .


oh dang lol

I'm glad we have some smart peeps here on this board!

Smaay
05-22-2009, 03:27 PM
Olamma and lick the cheese under my sac. he is the antichrist that will destroy the world

GT4SOM
05-22-2009, 03:53 PM
Nothing is going to happen to our Celicas. The fact the restrictions are being tighten, they can't impose them on older vehicles so that means we are just grandfathered into the older regulations.

I think its good that they are finally forcing the Automakers to make better cars (more fuel efficient). The timing couldn't be worse but we all knew this day would come. For decades the American automotive scene has been producing turds for vehicles. All the people whining need to just stfu because its not like most of you drive an American made car. This isn't going to dictate on what you can drive, there will always be a choice.

Without the regulation of the Automotive industry, do you think cars of today would have seat belts, airbags, abs, TCS, ESC as standard features? I don't think so. I believe if we didn't regulat the Auto Industry, the Big 3 American car companies would have never spent money on R&D to build more fuel efficient vehicles.

The Captain
05-22-2009, 06:46 PM
Nothing is going to happen to our Celicas. The fact the restrictions are being tighten, they can't impose them on older vehicles so that means we are just grandfathered into the older regulations.

I think its good that they are finally forcing the Automakers to make better cars (more fuel efficient). The timing couldn't be worse but we all knew this day would come. For decades the American automotive scene has been producing turds for vehicles. All the people whining need to just stfu because its not like most of you drive an American made car. This isn't going to dictate on what you can drive, there will always be a choice.

Without the regulation of the Automotive industry, do you think cars of today would have seat belts, airbags, abs, TCS, ESC as standard features? I don't think so. I believe if we didn't regulat the Auto Industry, the Big 3 American car companies would have never spent money on R&D to build more fuel efficient vehicles.

I disagree(but don't take it too seriously!).

We should stick to the Constitution and let the free market decide. When gas hit $4 a gallon, what happened to SUV sales? You couldn't find a Prius in the US then. That wasn't a government mandate. Seen the price of Hummers lately?

GM developed airbags in the late 60's and thought the public would never pay extra for safety. GM worked on electric cars decades ago, but never brought it to market. That was more economics. Then someone put an airbag in a car and proved their value and people spent the money. Now you can't buy a shit box without airbags. Volvo has sold safety for years and sold cars because of it. Proof? How fucking ugly is a Volvo?

The US auto industry is in it's mess for decades of bad decisions. They built uninspiring vehicles for 30 years. They ignored the first time car owners. How? All of GM's entry level vehicles were absolute SHIT. Cavaliers, Citations, etc. Do you think those buyers were going to buy GM vehicles when they grow up and have more money? Do you think they had brand loyalty? DUH!

The Japanese are no different, but build better cars. They're starting to run shit like GM. Who do you think buys Lexus and Infiniti luxury cars now? People who grew up on 280Z's, Celicas, Corrollas, 510's, etc. Good cars that had some inspiration. Now what's Toyota doing? Building nothing but boring as shit cars that make money (CAMRYS!) Then we have the alter ego Scion. Zzzzz. Scions should have come with a T badge. Front drive. Ooh. Scion doesn't make a luxury sedan. I can tell you, you won't be young forever. Your tastes will change and Scion will have nothing to offer you. At least Nissan makes the Z, but what 18 year old can afford one?

Don't get me started on Toyota Service Bulletins. That's GM 101. "We know we have a problem, but were not going to call you in to fix it. we're going to wait until you bitch". That shit got the US automakers into the mess too. My Tundra had a brake caliper TSB. I didn't buy it new, but with only 68K miles. It's CHERRY. Sure enough, calipers needed replacement. That's when I found the TSB. Guess what, they wouldn't fix it. Fuckers. I've bought my last Toyota. My friend with an Acura ('03 TL) had a recall on the EGR valve. His car has 134K. They called him and fixed it free! I'd buy an Acura for shit like that.

If you think King Obama can't do anything to our cars, consider this. He knows he can't regulate guns without pissing off the NRA. So what does he do? Instructs his Chiefs of Staff to purchase every type of primer (bullet part) the military can get. Guess what? I can't find .223 rounds for my rifle. Gun controlled.

Maybe he'll make spark plugs illegal, maybe he'll make all fuel 80 octane. In his perverted mind, the end justifies the means. If you wonder where we are heading, look at California. Soon you won't even have a paycheck, but you'll have shitty health care. For the greater good of society.

We're in deep shit, and it's going to get deeper.

GT4SOM
05-22-2009, 07:17 PM
I agree with many of your points. I don't think we can just let the free market take its course in the auto industry. We are Americans, we like the best things at the lowest price. If the free market was in control 100%, all of us would be unemployed and they would be teaching Chinese in our public schools because China would take all the jobs.

tuner4life
05-22-2009, 07:38 PM
I disagree(but don't take it too seriously!).

We should stick to the Constitution and let the free market decide. When gas hit $4 a gallon, what happened to SUV sales? You couldn't find a Prius in the US then. That wasn't a government mandate. Seen the price of Hummers lately?

GM developed airbags in the late 60's and thought the public would never pay extra for safety. GM worked on electric cars decades ago, but never brought it to market. That was more economics. Then someone put an airbag in a car and proved their value and people spent the money. Now you can't buy a shit box without airbags. Volvo has sold safety for years and sold cars because of it. Proof? How fucking ugly is a Volvo?

The US auto industry is in it's mess for decades of bad decisions. They built uninspiring vehicles for 30 years. They ignored the first time car owners. How? All of GM's entry level vehicles were absolute SHIT. Cavaliers, Citations, etc. Do you think those buyers were going to buy GM vehicles when they grow up and have more money? Do you think they had brand loyalty? DUH!

The Japanese are no different, but build better cars. They're starting to run shit like GM. Who do you think buys Lexus and Infiniti luxury cars now? People who grew up on 280Z's, Celicas, Corrollas, 510's, etc. Good cars that had some inspiration. Now what's Toyota doing? Building nothing but boring as shit cars that make money (CAMRYS!) Then we have the alter ego Scion. Zzzzz. Scions should have come with a T badge. Front drive. Ooh. Scion doesn't make a luxury sedan. I can tell you, you won't be young forever. Your tastes will change and Scion will have nothing to offer you. At least Nissan makes the Z, but what 18 year old can afford one?

Don't get me started on Toyota Service Bulletins. That's GM 101. "We know we have a problem, but were not going to call you in to fix it. we're going to wait until you bitch". That shit got the US automakers into the mess too. My Tundra had a brake caliper TSB. I didn't buy it new, but with only 68K miles. It's CHERRY. Sure enough, calipers needed replacement. That's when I found the TSB. Guess what, they wouldn't fix it. Fuckers. I've bought my last Toyota. My friend with an Acura ('03 TL) had a recall on the EGR valve. His car has 134K. They called him and fixed it free! I'd buy an Acura for shit like that.

If you think King Obama can't do anything to our cars, consider this. He knows he can't regulate guns without pissing off the NRA. So what does he do? Instructs his Chiefs of Staff to purchase every type of primer (bullet part) the military can get. Guess what? I can't find .223 rounds for my rifle. Gun controlled.

Maybe he'll make spark plugs illegal, maybe he'll make all fuel 80 octane. In his perverted mind, the end justifies the means. If you wonder where we are heading, look at California. Soon you won't even have a paycheck, but you'll have shitty health care. For the greater good of society.

We're in deep shit, and it's going to get deeper.

:bowdown: Well said!

importrcr13
05-22-2009, 07:52 PM
Olamma and lick the cheese under my sac. he is the antichrist that will destroy the world

Spell check maybe?

The antichrist? Hardly.

He's been in office for only 4 Months. How can you judge his actions before they happen. Precognition is the reason for all the hatred, and downfall of society.

Please think about what you're saying. Republican, Democratic, or Independent, it doesn't matter... as long as Hilary stays out of office, I could give a shit.

The Captain
05-22-2009, 08:42 PM
I agree with many of your points. I don't think we can just let the free market take its course in the auto industry. We are Americans, we like the best things at the lowest price. If the free market was in control 100%, all of us would be unemployed and they would be teaching Chinese in our public schools because China would take all the jobs.

True to a point about the best things at the lowest price. Problem is we USED to make the best things. Cars, electronics etc. Then the unions came in, negotiated unsustainable contracts. I've been in a union, so I'm not throwing stones. Nobody should make college educated level income doing a job that takes a week to learn. Car manufacturers had to cut costs. Cars turned in to shit boxes. Japanese built tiny little fuel sippers that would last +200K miles. GM et al laughed. If the arguement held true of the lowest price, none of us would be driving Mercedes, BMW's etc. Last I checked, my E300 cost more than a Malibu. We're willing to pay for the best. If GM built the best car and it was more than a Honda, I'd buy it.

There are plenty of tariffs on foreign cars. Problem is this. You've got a GM and a Toyota. All performance, dimensional and general appearance measurements are the same. Price is equal due to tariffs. The GM has an interior by Mattel, the fit and finish rivals a Yugo and the reliability of (an alltrac j/k!). You're gonna buy the Toyota.

There is a limit to how much can be outsourced. This is a big generalization of us and our leaders: Americans have lost the desire to compete. We've lost the desire to be responsible. We've lost our morals. We cheat and steal when nobody's looking. We screw the next guy. We have no character. When this whole "freedom" thing started, we took care of ourselves and our brothers. We made responsible decisions. We didn't want hand outs. We worked hard. As I've said before, our forefathers would be ashamed of us. If failure is not a risk, then there is no risk. The banks risked, the auto industry risked, the mortgage industry risked. Epic fail.



He's been in office for only 4 Months. How can you judge his actions before they happen. .
He's doubled the deficit. The government is now the majority holder of banks and the auto industry. See: "The Communist Manifesto". Not bad for four months work.

as long as Hilary stays out of office, I could give a shit.
AMEN!!! :bigthumbu

I love being devil's advocate. :inout:

Hipster Lawrence
05-22-2009, 11:40 PM
Captain,
You should have said "fuck" a few more times and you would have gotten your calipers replaced. And as far as TSBs go ever manufacturer does that it's SOP.
Your friend with the acura most likely has legislation to thank for his EGR being fixed since all emissions related parts are warranted for 10 years or 100,000 miles I'm guessing they made a minor exception to make him happy.

Lonestag
05-22-2009, 11:48 PM
I kinda think its a non issue.

With the price I think gas are going to be in 2016, nobody will be buying anything that gets less then 35mpg vehicles anyway, thats just my guess.

Galcobar
05-23-2009, 12:33 AM
You guys do realize that fleet standards don't outlaw gas guzzlers, right?

We're talking about mandating average consumption of the entire line, not individual vehicle performance.

The Captain
05-23-2009, 01:38 AM
Captain,
And as far as TSBs go ever manufacturer does that it's SOP.
Does that make it good policy?

You should have heard I said "fuck" making my Celica brakes! :laugh:


I'm guessing they made a minor exception to make him happy.
That was kinda the point :bigthumbu

I'm just having fun playing devil's advocate.

Nitro_Alltrac
05-23-2009, 02:17 PM
There is a limit to how much can be outsourced. This is a big generalization of us and our leaders: Americans have lost the desire to compete. We've lost the desire to be responsible. We've lost our morals. We cheat and steal when nobody's looking. We screw the next guy. We have no character. When this whole "freedom" thing started, we took care of ourselves and our brothers. We made responsible decisions. We didn't want hand outs. We worked hard. As I've said before, our forefathers would be ashamed of us. If failure is not a risk, then there is no risk. The banks risked, the auto industry risked, the mortgage industry risked. Epic fail.




Amen to this Captian! :bowdown:

Nitro_Alltrac
05-23-2009, 02:22 PM
You guys do realize that fleet standards don't outlaw gas guzzlers, right?

We're talking about mandating average consumption of the entire line, not individual vehicle performance.

We need to read the rules for this increase once they come out. If they're like the ones that Bush proposed last fall, this time the full economy numbers vary by vehicle size, pretty much wheel base. There were several articles in the automotive media about this at that time. The new rules were slanted toward the domestic manufacturers. One article used the Porsche 911 as an example. Based on that set of rules, due to the 911's wheel base, it was going to have to get something like 36 or 37 mpg. I don't know if the new rules will be written like this or not. If they are going to raise the CAFE, so be it, but it needs to be the same for everybody and a straight average, not some cock and bull formula.

Ghosty
05-30-2009, 09:26 PM
We should stick to the Constitution and let the free market decide.


The Constitution never mentions a "free market."




If you think King Obama can't do anything to our cars, consider this. He knows he can't regulate guns without pissing off the NRA. So what does he do? Instructs his Chiefs of Staff to purchase every type of primer (bullet part) the military can get. Guess what? I can't find .223 rounds for my rifle. Gun controlled.


1) This is false. The rarity of ammunition is directly related to members of the public who have panicked from a change in this country's administration, and making a run on stores of ammunition.

2) Gun control != Car control.

3) Obama is not a King, nor does the United States have any such office. He is the president of the United States, as elected by the majority of the voting country.



Soon you won't even have a paycheck, but you'll have shitty health care. For the greater good of society.


Soon? We have shitty health care right now. There are 47 million Americans who don't even have health insurance. And those that do have health insurance, how good are those companies at providing quality health care? Ever been denied a claim? Denied coverage because of a preexisting condition? You think employers are picking up the tab? It's laughable.

The claim that nationalized medicine somehow will find us in second-world dungeons it totally unsubstantiated. What do the healthiest countries have in common, besides being in northern Europe?They have nationalized healthcare. (http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/07/health-world-countries-forbeslife-cx_avd_0408health.html)

Where do we rank? Below Cuba. Which is a de-facto communist state.

Everyone would do themselves better with a little reading and chilling the fuck out.

tekstep01
05-30-2009, 09:40 PM
smog restrictions, in LA are bad enough... my ST-162 is gonna be track only next year! i paid 100$ to "push it through" cause of my ram-air intake and baffle-less muffler...

I wouldnt worry too much, converting to methonol or ethonal is pretty simple i heard...
but where do i fill that tank? lol?!

i know my car is commin up on its 21st birthday.... so why cant it legally drink too???lol!

Fuelish
05-30-2009, 10:51 PM
Olamma and lick the cheese under my sac. he is the antichrist that will destroy the world Sorry ..... Bush is the anti-christ ..... and he didn't quite do it. Settle down, fools.... new car legislation has nothing to do with cars already produced. I'm lookin' forward to a future of fast efficient fun to drive cars - they will exist, for sure.

GT4SOM
05-30-2009, 11:10 PM
Well my question is why is Europe and the rest of the world receiving cars that easily get 40-50 mpg while here in America we are amazed with 30-35 mpg.

Nitro_Alltrac
05-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Well my question is why is Europe and the rest of the world receiving cars that easily get 40-50 mpg while here in America we are amazed with 30-35 mpg.

The high mileage cars in Europe are predominately diesel, which isn't a bad thing. Diesel has had a rough time recovering in the US due to the GM fiasco of the late 70'/early 80's. It's a good alternative though.

Also the high mileage cars in the rest of the world that aren't diesel are quite small. A Camry in a lot of places borders on rather large. Many countries have taxes on engine displacement which also drivers people into smaller, more fuel efficent cars, not to mention the high fuel taxes.

Ghosty
05-30-2009, 11:51 PM
Well my question is why is Europe and the rest of the world receiving cars that easily get 40-50 mpg while here in America we are amazed with 30-35 mpg.

Probably because fuel is much more expensive in Europe and the UK. In the UK, (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aB9b2rPXKVBY) you've got a 39 percent fuel duty and a 17.5 percent VAT - at least. So effectively half of what you buy out of a pump in that country is a tax, whereas in the U.S., it's about 12 percent.

All that has an enormous impact on the vehicles those people choose to buy. And that also creates an incentive for the automakers to make small, fuel-efficient cars.

Ghosty
05-31-2009, 12:10 AM
Bush is the anti-christ ..... and he didn't quite do it.

I think those out there banging pots, yelling at the top of their lungs that Obama is some kind of communist/antichrist/fascist should come to terms with the fact that it was Bush in 2008 who signed off on the $700 Billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, thus subsidizing the banking industry, and also used executive authority to allot $15 Billion of that money to General Motors, thus subsidizing the automotive industry as well.

TheNefariousOne
06-02-2009, 05:53 PM
+ the fact that these subsidies are occurring as a result of the worst recession we've seen in a while. Which, oh yeah, occurred as a result of the lack of oversight and regulation on the financial sector.

Difficult circumstances call for bold action.

rrain3288
06-03-2009, 07:44 AM
yes some of the new laws wont apply to are cars. but the little laws that they also want to sneak in is where we will get raped. higher gas taxes, a mileage tax <--- they are already trying to pass, and alot tighter emissions so we wont even be able to register the cars we have. how is this possible in a free country for them to get away with this??? and its not just obama.

85gtsblackman
06-03-2009, 09:31 AM
your right its not just him, we are getting pwnt by the house and senate

luckily all my vehicles are antiques so im good

T-spoon
06-03-2009, 05:10 PM
I think those out there banging pots, yelling at the top of their lungs that Obama is some kind of communist/antichrist/fascist should come to terms with the fact that it was Bush in 2008 who signed off on the $700 Billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, thus subsidizing the banking industry, and also used executive authority to allot $15 Billion of that money to General Motors, thus subsidizing the automotive industry as well.

Irrelevant. Eventual results are always linked to the current office-holder. Which is why Bush was blamed for so much that Clinton screwed up. It's how it works. Quit your own pot banging.