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Lonestag
05-15-2009, 09:25 PM
Now that i'm a proud owner of a 3SGE i've got a spot of cognative dissonence about something.

The 1st gen 3SGE puts about 130hp to the ground. The wiki article says the JDM version puts out somthing like 154HP due to a more aggressive ECU tune and no EGR system.

I'm curious if this is true. I have read reports of people switching to the JDM ECU and either seeing no gain or losing power.

Now I understand that this could occur if they didn't do a EGR delete and were running a grade of fuel with a lower octane rating then the JDM standard. But seriously, if I could free up even 5hp I tihnk I wouldn't mind spending the cash on a EGR delete and JDM ecu, but I would have to think the numbers have some basis in reality.

Tell me what to think oh mighty C-tech.

Luni
05-15-2009, 10:10 PM
Its definately not 130hp to the ground.

Its more like 105 to the ground, 130 at the crank.

And I also have never seen a "JDM" 1st gen 3SGE making more than ours either.

I know the JDM Gen2 3SGEs make more power, and the Gen3 ones even more than that, but Id say wiki is FOS.

Lonestag
05-15-2009, 11:38 PM
^^^^

So speaks the mighty C-tech

Galcobar
05-16-2009, 12:25 AM
Though one must keep in mind that Japanese gasoline is more readily available in higher octane values, and not just due to the difference between octane rating and octane number.

If the ECU is tuned to work with higher octane and is then fed lower values, should it not detune itself to work with the gas you're feeding it?

Trance4c
05-16-2009, 01:18 AM
^ The difference in ron usually makes a 1 point octane difference. That isn't a huge enough effect to make a difference. I've run a JDM ecu and my rom tune ecu, either way when I get a rom tune ATS advances timing in many areas. That I know of, they don't retard it. Octane would not be a problem for a JDM ecu, at least that would be my logical assumption.

Luni
05-16-2009, 02:03 AM
100 RON is like 94 R+M/2

It is a difference. My Gen3 ECU LOVES race fuel. When I mix 100 octane and 91 to make about 95, my JDM Gen3 ECU LOVES it.

grayscale
05-16-2009, 03:08 AM
Whatever you want to say about octane formulas, no way it's gonna net you another 24 ponies. EGR delete is not gonna do anything to make you any gains either.
However, say if the jdm 3sge had a slightly higher comp ratio then this could be possible AND explain why it does nothing on the usdm 3sge. Just speculating here.

CriScO
05-16-2009, 05:46 AM
Its definately not 130hp to the ground.

Its more like 105 to the ground, 130 at the crank.

And I also have never seen a "JDM" 1st gen 3SGE making more than ours either.

I know the JDM Gen2 3SGEs make more power, and the Gen3 ones even more than that, but Id say wiki is FOS.
Normally I'd steer clear of Rob for fourth gen info, but he's actually right this time. :hehe:

KoreanJoey
05-16-2009, 05:50 AM
*cough* 3rd gen *cough*

Lonestag
05-17-2009, 03:54 AM
Ok, so I will not be trying out the JDM ECU, thanks for saving me coin C-tech!

CriScO
05-17-2009, 05:35 AM
Ok, so I will not be trying out the 1st gen JDM ECU, but I'll have to go JDM when I go to a 3rd gen GE!
Fixed. ;)

Think we can harrass him until he does it Joey? :hehe:

Žusty
05-17-2009, 06:50 AM
3rd gen 3sge had a power decrease in 1996 due to EGR (its about 5-9HP I think) but that only appiled to motors outside japan, mostly europe I think.

Lonestag
05-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Well, if I ever have the $$$$$$ to throw in a 3rd gen, I'll give it a try.

The Captain
05-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Help me call wikipedia BS?

Wikipedia, you're BS.

Luni
05-18-2009, 05:47 PM
On a turbo Cannon it sure does.

JDM Gen2 engines rated at 225hp at the crank. USDM Gen2 engines rated at 200 to the crank. The ONLY difference is the ECU and the way its tuned for the higher octane.

RedRkt01
05-18-2009, 08:57 PM
Don't those JDM motors have a higher compression ratio and therefore require higher octane? Perhaps that AND the ECU tune?

Luni
05-18-2009, 10:39 PM
Nope they sure dont.

The only differences between a USDM setup and a JDM gen2 3SGTE setup are 4 things.

1) 1 wire O2 sensor on the JDM vs 4 wire on the USDM. The USDM has 4 wires for emissions purposes. Its more accurate

2) JDM doesnt have an EGR

3) JDM has a speed cut at like 120

4) JDM uses a different ECU - it makes more power cause its more aggresively tuned, part of that is its looking for the equivalent of 94-95 octane fuel here in the states.

RedRkt01
05-18-2009, 11:49 PM
Good info.......

ChrisD
05-19-2009, 12:32 AM
Nope they sure dont.

The only differences between a USDM setup and a JDM gen2 3SGTE setup are 4 things.

1) 1 wire O2 sensor on the JDM vs 4 wire on the USDM. The USDM has 4 wires for emissions purposes. Its more accurate

2) JDM doesnt have an EGR

3) JDM has a speed cut at like 120

4) JDM uses a different ECU - it makes more power cause its more aggresively tuned, part of that is its looking for the equivalent of 94-95 octane fuel here in the states.

werd.

I would add to point #1 - USDM 4 wire 02 sensor adds a heating circuit to give better readings on cold start up in our cooler climates. JDM O2 sensor does not have this due to the (usually) warm climate.

alwayzsidewayz
05-30-2009, 01:18 PM
UK cars are rated at 147bhp / 133Lbft at the crank, runing 95 octane. Thats published by toyota, and I have seen dyno runs of a ST162 make 143bhp bone stock after 87k miles.
I am not sure of all the differences, but the always quote the 3sge engine in european brochures for Fedral spec 135bhp @ 6000rpm / 125lbft @ 4800rpm, vs 160bhp @ 6400rpm / 137lb ft @ 4800rpm for Japan. Compression ratio given for Japanese 3sge was 9.2:1 c/r.
Will do some more digging, but I am sure its to do with both fuel / emmisions.
hth