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View Full Version : 3sgte + AWD question.



Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 04:51 AM
im still trying to sell my 95 blazer 4x4 to do this swap.

my question is that the gt4 3sgte + the awd system should just bolt directly up to a gts right? but im planning on buying the 3gen engine and trans. so would that drop into my 5th gen or would there be some modding needed?

METDeath
04-07-2009, 04:54 AM
The AWD won't just hook up, since the chassis are different, the gas tank location is different, and the suspension in the rear is different.

You can modify the AWD transmission to be FWD only, and there is a write up on that.

The 3rd gen 3S-GTE engine will drop right in, but the wiring is going to be very different, you'll also have to do some work on the fuel pump to prevent a code 54 (I think that's the code).

Grot
04-07-2009, 04:55 AM
You would almost be better buying an all-trac.

You woul dhave to switch over the trans, rear diff. all the suspension.
Basically the entire car minus the Shell.

grayscale
04-07-2009, 04:56 AM
You need to do a lot more research before you jump into this. Just search around here, we have a lot of great threads on this stuff.

METDeath
04-07-2009, 05:34 AM
You would almost be better buying an all-trac.

You woul dhave to switch over the trans, rear diff. all the suspension.
Basically the entire car minus the Shell.

Actually, he'd have to modify the entire back of the car...

NA gas tank is under pass seat, GT4 gas tank is under trunk

Rear NA struts are longer than rear GT4 struts

NA doesn't have a drive shaft tunnel from front to rear.

There are no diff mounting points/brackets etc.

Rear hubs are different between NA and GT4 (axles anyone?)

By this point, he could have bought an All-trac and done a complete 205 swap, done a CS conversion, gotten a good suspension, and wheel/tire combo.

Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 06:01 AM
well shitty. but the gts (or at least mine) has the tunnel running down the center of the body for the drive shaft. i thought it was weird but then i just assumed the two bodies were almost identical minus the hood & ect.

but you guys know as well as i do that $2000 - $2300 is not going to buy me an alltrac anywhere.

so yet again im screwed.

Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 06:08 AM
ok one more question then,

how much power can the 5s tranny take? if i leave it front wheel drive using the 3sgte and 5s tranny, i need the 3sgte flywheel matched up to a 5s clutch correct?

grayscale
04-07-2009, 06:24 AM
well shitty. but the gts (or at least mine) has the tunnel running down the center of the body for the drive shaft. i thought it was weird but then i just assumed the two bodies were almost identical minus the hood & ect.
That tunnel is just for the exhaust, it's not the same as the alltrac.

Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 06:28 AM
ya but even my stock exhaust didnt run down that tunnel......

burnyd
04-07-2009, 06:28 AM
read into the stickies before you really dive into this....

2-2300 will not purchase you an alltrac... 2-2300 will also not finish a swap for you I cant even imagine how much any shop would charge, and then all you have is a alltrac lol, not even the frame from an alltrac, its not very safe....

getting back to your other question the tranny all depends on the shape it is in before you swap it.... I swapped my car and blew up the transmission within 2 months, I went through 3 of them over 8 months, but that is me.... and this was stock with bolt ons, someone like lagos who made a good 50 + whp than my car made is still on his stock tranny going on like 3+ years....but honestly there is a ton of information in the stickies you might want to read them first then come back and ask anyquestion...



-Dan

METDeath
04-07-2009, 06:31 AM
For the 3S block to 5S tranny you need 3S flywheel and pressure plate, but 5S clutch, iirc.

As far as power goes... some people went through 3 S53 (stock 5th gen manual) transmissions before switching to a S54 (stock 6th gen manual). Others are doing fine on the original transmission, so it's hit or miss.

The large tunnel down the car is purely for the exhaust, it only seems large if you have a custom exhaust with no heat shields.

Edit: You fuckers beat me, must be because I was talking about Dan's car...

Carolina91GT-S
04-07-2009, 06:53 AM
You can definitey swap a 3SGTE into a GT-S and upgrade the XMSN for that kind of money. I did it for mine plus rebuilt the brakes and new balljoints and tie rods etc etc for under $2500

burnyd
04-07-2009, 07:00 AM
You can definitey swap a 3SGTE into a GT-S and upgrade the XMSN for that kind of money. I did it for mine plus rebuilt the brakes and new balljoints and tie rods etc etc for under $2500


oh without a doubt on a budget... but then again unplanned things happen, things break etc... I can kinda see it getting done for that type of money.. but I was referring to 2500 for a full awd platform... not going to happen...

Carolina91GT-S
04-07-2009, 01:14 PM
yeah no way

Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 06:08 PM
read into the stickies before you really dive into this....

2-2300 will not purchase you an alltrac... 2-2300 will also not finish a swap for you I cant even imagine how much any shop would charge, and then all you have is a alltrac lol, not even the frame from an alltrac, its not very safe....



well see i can do all my own work, i have every tool needed to do this job plus ones i dont need. and if i had too i could also do some of my own fab work to strengthen the subframes. thats easy. but ya i know what you mean and thanks for the warning.

Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 06:10 PM
You can definitey swap a 3SGTE into a GT-S and upgrade the XMSN for that kind of money. I did it for mine plus rebuilt the brakes and new balljoints and tie rods etc etc for under $2500


ok guys you all have a lot of abbreviations and not everyone knows them.... :)

what the hell is XMSN? its prolly something i know but not it short term.

90CelicaST
04-07-2009, 06:20 PM
He means transmission.

burnyd
04-07-2009, 06:22 PM
well see i can do all my own work, i have every tool needed to do this job plus ones i dont need. and if i had too i could also do some of my own fab work to strengthen the subframes. thats easy. but ya i know what you mean and thanks for the warning.


yupp and then after all that hard work your left with an alltrac thats unreliable that you could have just bought..... :ug3:

celica91gts
04-07-2009, 06:59 PM
a guy converted a 6th gen ff platform into an awd platform. to put it bluntly i hear it handles like shit. no offence if he reads this posts. ultimately a converted ff car into a awd will never handle as well as just getting the awd platform.

so like burny said, its unsafe, and if you do take the safty precaution and weld up and fab more reinforcment it will add to the weight of the car. i suggest just saving up to buy an awd if you are that set on having an awd car, otherwise maybe consider just the engine swap. i hear the 3sgte swap and keeping the car ff is kick ass fun.

Mr.Shaun91
04-07-2009, 07:22 PM
a guy converted a 6th gen ff platform into an awd platform. to put it bluntly i hear it handles like shit. no offence if he reads this posts. ultimately a converted ff car into a awd will never handle as well as just getting the awd platform.

so like burny said, its unsafe, and if you do take the safty precaution and weld up and fab more reinforcment it will add to the weight of the car. i suggest just saving up to buy an awd if you are that set on having an awd car, otherwise maybe consider just the engine swap. i hear the 3sgte swap and keeping the car ff is kick ass fun.


oh i dont doubt its fun.... my buddy kyle has the 2001 subi rs imprezza 2.5 2 door which is actually kind of rare to find. and since my car has been off the road for a year now he lets me take his car out for the enjoyment of a tuner.

and after driving his awd subi i just dont know how ive gone without awd all this time. so thats why i was gonna attempt this setup on my GTS.

yes i know i should just buy a gt4 but they are not easy to come by. i searched craigslist, ebay, and even autotrader and not one of those 3 major sites has one on it. so im just gonna have to get lucky on the few toyota sites i know and just pray i have the money for one when it goes up for sale.

usp45
04-08-2009, 09:01 AM
either get a real trac. Or swap a gte in the gts then tub or wide body your front fenders and run wide ass tires with lsd. if you can make enough power for traction to be an issue in the first place. thats my advice.

grayscale
04-08-2009, 03:35 PM
ya but even my stock exhaust didnt run down that tunnel......
pics please

Mr.Shaun91
04-08-2009, 05:21 PM
pics please


i don't have the car here... its about 60 miles south of me being stored at a friends place. he has a lot of land so thats where my celica sits.

ill get pics the next time i go out there

ChrisD
04-08-2009, 08:39 PM
watch alltrac.net forums too. they are out there, although in limited quantities these days. Don't be afraid to travel a little bit if you need to. ST165's are becoming increasingly rare I've noticed.

Mr.Shaun91
04-08-2009, 10:29 PM
ya i look on the site from time to time but its not like im gonna have $15000 to buy one. im in college, own house and only working part time.....