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View Full Version : New Celica could be RWD??? Say it isn't so!



mr2trd3
03-23-2009, 05:07 PM
The last report about the on again/off again sports car being developed jointly by Toyota and Subaru was that it's on again. Today comes word from L'Automobile in France that not only is the rear-wheel-drive Toyubaru going to happen, but it will arrive bearing the Celica name sometime in 2010. If Wikipedia is to be believed, this would be the eighth generation of the Celica, which traces its roots all the way back to 1970 when it debuted in Japan as an inexpensive rear-wheel-drive sports car. Through the years it switched to front- and all-wheel drive, with the final seventh generation Celica sold from 2000 - 2005 being a strict cart puller. L'Automobile claims that Thierry Dombreval, Toyota's VP of sales and marketing in France, spilled the beans on reviving the Celica name, so we won't consider this news solid until a second source comes forward or Toyota officially confirms it, neither of which is likely to happen. So for now all you Celica fans should just sit tight and light a few candles for your cause.


New Celica News/Rumors (http://jalopnik.com/5180224/2010-toyota-celica-name-of-new-subieyota-coupe?skyline=true&s=i)

extremeskillz
03-23-2009, 05:13 PM
Until Toyota confirms it I have to say I'll have to wait and see!

cms-gt4
03-23-2009, 05:15 PM
Toyota changes their story every few months about this. First it would be under the Suby name, then Scion, now its Celica. I guess we will wait and see. Toyota is going to need to be smart if they want to fight the price point of the Genesis coupe.

usp45
03-23-2009, 05:21 PM
Until Toyota confirms it I have to say I'll have to wait and see!

agreed. But the thought of a new celica did make my dick move a little.

mr2trd3
03-23-2009, 05:21 PM
Considering the latest trend of manufacturers going retro, I think this cheap, RWD sports car has a decent chance at being successful under the Celica badge. *fingers crossed*

kungFUBAR
03-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Hopefully it won't be a Scion...Scion Celica just doesn't have the same ring

cms-gt4
03-23-2009, 06:38 PM
News on the MR2 as well.


Toyota's MR2 sports car may have only bowed out of the market less than two years ago but the popular nameplate may soon see a revival, and this time around it could even be sold exclusively as a hybrid.

The news comes from Toyota's executive vice-president, Masatami Takimoto, who revealed during an interview with AutoExpress that his company is keen to replace the car, especially in the European market where the MR2 name is still held fondly. Takimoto confirmed Toyota was “developing a small hybrid sports car” but said it will be a coupe and not a roadster.

Takimoto also mentioned that Toyota has set itself a "tough price point", and that making the car affordable will be just as important as making it an enjoyable drive. This means we can expect the small coupe to be sitting on a sporty RWD chassis but most importantly with a refined version of the Prius' hybrid powertrain to better suit the car's performance aspirations. Takimoto confirmed that the hybrid engine "set-up must be different to the Prius, with greater responsiveness".

The car is expected to sell for around $28,000, and performance is expected to be slightly quicker than that of the previous MR2, which was able to hit 62mph from rest in about 7.5 seconds.

No release date has been given but with Honda planning to launch its own hybrid sports car based on the CR-Z concept next year we may just end up seeing the new MR2 a lot sooner than you thing. Toyota is also working closely with Subaru on a new RWD sports car and this could easily end up being the basis for the revised MR2.

A hybrid sports car from Toyota has been a long time in the making, with the company first hinting at such a prospect over two years ago at the 2007 Detroit Motor Show where they showed off their FT-HS concept. While that car was slated to revive the Supra or Celica nameplates, the success of an MR2 hybrid sports car may nudge Toyota in bringing back their European-rivalling sports cars.

extremeskillz
03-23-2009, 06:47 PM
Interesting!

mr2trd3
03-23-2009, 08:01 PM
Interesting indeed! However, if the next MR2 will be hybrid, 8th Gen Celi >>>> MKIV MR2. Can't imagine too much fun with a hybrid sports car priced at $28,000.

Chris
03-23-2009, 08:10 PM
A hybrid Mr2 that's only a bit faster than the last one? Fail.

cms-gt4
03-23-2009, 08:25 PM
If they make a hybrid mr2 with the same generator concept as the volta, I would be sold. I bet it could be "tuned" to be quick we would just have to approach it in a new way.

And it is "expected" to be slightly quicker, so who knows what we really get.

VikingJZ
03-23-2009, 08:39 PM
Toyota changes their story every few months about this. First it would be under the Suby name, then Scion, now its Celica. I guess we will wait and see. Toyota is going to need to be smart if they want to fight the price point of the Genesis coupe.

Agreed.

They need to be able to start this thing as a base model for less than the Genesis with a top of the line price of no more than $25,000 bone stock, with optional dealer accessories (if they sell it as a Scion with the letter moniker).


OR

They could make the car built to fight the Genesis and the 350Z with similar pricing and options as a Genesis. I would imaging if Toyota were to make a Genesis competitor, more would flock to the "Celica" because of the Toyota prestige. There's still a lot of people who think Hyundai makes nothing but total shit. I'm still not convinced by them completely. I just think of the 80's and 90's Hyundais and laugh.

If this thing does come out and isn't a cock tease until Toyota claims it isn't happening, it's going to be a big deal.


I still think since everyone is going retro, they take the early first gen coupe design and emulate it to a new car.


Think first gen with modern amenities and a Boxer engine. I like it.

METDeath
03-23-2009, 09:48 PM
If they remake the first gen coupe and hatch like everyone else is remaking retro designs... I may buy a new one...

v8killer
03-24-2009, 12:34 AM
agreed. But the thought of a new celica did make my dick move a little.


i get what you mean but thats just nasty

i just want the new celica to have a engine that is bullet proof or damn close to it without it being a long stroke low power POS like some of the "RZ" and "NZ" engines.

Grot
03-24-2009, 12:51 AM
is it gonna be toyota or subie powered?

toyota would probably use a ZZ engine?
Subie use the impreza boxer engine?

trah
03-24-2009, 12:58 AM
I want v8 bi-quad entry turbo GT4 LOL

METDeath
03-24-2009, 01:00 AM
They need to give it a two I4s and an I6 option >.>

Grot
03-24-2009, 01:25 AM
WRX drivetrain with an upgraded tranny?

mr2trd3
03-24-2009, 03:08 AM
I'd like to see a new 3SGTE or any -GTE engine. :)

cms-gt4
03-24-2009, 03:14 AM
The 3s is long dead now. Las I heard the Caldina gtfour is done for now, which was the last 3sgte car.

Before toyota bought Suby they were planning an awd turbo corolla that used a turbocharged stroked variant of TC engine. I think a 2.5 or 2.6 liter.

I would prefer a modern aluminum block engine that can still handle good power. The 3s is too heavy an engine.

Shadowlife25
03-24-2009, 03:40 AM
Does Toyota even have Yamaha make anything for them anymore?

That was the beauty of the 3sGTE, the head was Yamaha made.

Much like the beastly Ford Taurus SHO. Out performed 5.0's with a better price point and was down tuned so as not to outshine them. That also had a Yamaha designed head(s).

I don't see another hi-flow head design coming out anytime soon from Mr.T.

renegadex
03-24-2009, 04:16 AM
I think the 2zz is the last engine that Toyota used that was made by yamaha.

KoreanJoey
03-24-2009, 06:11 AM
Does Toyota even have Yamaha make anything for them anymore?

That was the beauty of the 3sGTE, the head was Yamaha made.

Much like the beastly Ford Taurus SHO. Out performed 5.0's with a better price point and was down tuned so as not to outshine them. That also had a Yamaha designed head(s).

I don't see another hi-flow head design coming out anytime soon from Mr.T.

The 2UR-GSE is the 5.0 used in the IFS. Still Yamaha head.

Shadowlife25
03-24-2009, 08:20 AM
Hey Joey, you happen to have a list of which engines Toyota has that came with a Yamamha head? It would be nice to know. :)

RedRkt01
03-24-2009, 02:37 PM
Shadow, if I'm not mistaken all of the G series heads were Yamaha designs and still are. I think they are still cast at Yamaha's foundry. And if I really not mistaken Toyota still owns a controlling interest in Yamaha and has since around the late 70's/early 80's. I'm pretty sure the overwhelming amount of twin cam designs coming from Toyota for the last 30 years was borrowed from Yamaha's bike designs. That's why nobody has as many twin cam offerings as our boys in Tokyo. To some degree one could argue that the elusive combination of power per liter and reliablility since the 80's was built on Toyota's ability to integrate Yamaha technology into their motors. I'm not sure that Toyota's success and rise to the top can be attributed to much else aside from great engineering (which no one really knew 20 years ago)......of course marketing later capitalized on these traits.....

sorry about the thread jack....just adding my $0.02.

I hope it comes back as a Toyota.....

Colossus20v
03-24-2009, 04:57 PM
I was browsing for more info and some more images of what it may look like and came across Nissan Planning to bring back the Silvia (http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/752/updates-on-the-nissan-silvia)

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/2416000-2416999/2416491_1750_full.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97/aleq_mbstek/2010Toyota-SubaruConceptSketch.jpg

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200807/2011-toyota-rwd-coup_460x0w.jpg

As you know, Toyota and Subaru are working on a new RWD model that will be built under both logos and is set to be launched in 2011. After we brought you a TopSpeed impression of how the Subaru version might look like, here’s now the Toyota version.

The car will be inspired by the classic rear-drive AE86 Toyota Corolla GT coupe from the 1980s. But, the Subaru version will also get its design by the Impreza, although it will shortened, lightened and will have a coupe body.

The 2010 RWD Coupe (we don’t know the name yet) will be powered by 2.0-liter flat four engine that will deliver 175bhp (for the naturally aspired version). Subaru will also unveil a 2.5-liter turbocharged version few months after the standard version.
I like where this is going and this will probable be my next car. :)

zmile06
03-24-2009, 05:24 PM
Toyota needs a sporty car no matter what it is, but i sincerely doubt it will happen. I'm guessing Lexus, if the price range is really high. Or Scion if it's modded to hell and back, which i don't see if it's a hybrid.

Chris
03-24-2009, 06:34 PM
If this is true it presents a hard choice for me after I graduate. Continue with the Celica line, or get a black Challenger. Decisions, decisions.

85gtsblackman
03-25-2009, 05:51 AM
in responce to the title....

the celica was orginally rwd, the proper drivetrain, then came the 86 celica, damn celicas were doomed after 85 due to toyota giving in and going fwd on the celica

in 1988 nissan was smart and created the 240sx, pretty much what the celica should have been , well with a few changes would ve been perfect

but toyota had made an awd celica, well it was expensive so the 240 was the better option

this is all imo btw

mr2trd3
03-25-2009, 01:15 PM
With the D-3, Mercedes-Benz, Renault, Lamborghini and other automakers, pulling out of this year's Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota is rumored to have a big showing to capitalize on the lack of reveals this October. According to InsideLine's correspondent in Japan, Toyota will unveil the production version of the Lexus LF-A, originally expected to debut in Frankfurt. The V10-powered, 600-hp supercar's future was in doubt late last year, but the on-again-off-again coupe won't be the only two-door gracing the Toyota stage.

The collaboration between Toyota and Subaru on a new coupe is also rumored to make an appearance in Tokyo, although it's unclear if the Toyobaru will debut as a concept or a production model. Based on the current Impreza platform, the rear-wheel drive will coupe will be powered by a Subaru-sourced flat-four with a new Toyota-developed head that will decrease emissions and increase fuel economy while returning an estimated 220 horsepower.

Toyota is also expected to show off a range of hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles, along with new EV and battery technology. But the automaker will have four fewer days to show off its wares to the public – the show has been cut down from 17 days to 13, running from October 23 to November 4.

Production LF-A and Toyobaru RWD coupe (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/24/rumormill-production-lexus-lf-a-toyobaru-coupe-coming-to-tokyo/)

Does Toyota have a surprise "pocket-rockets" hand or is this all the same tease we've been hearing for years? I'm sure as hell looking forward to what Toyota will show at the Tokyo Auto Show.

extremeskillz
03-25-2009, 01:52 PM
^Why do they bother building a stupid concept they are not going to build or anyone can afford. Damn Toyota build the damn AE86, Supra, or Celica concepts already! /end rant! :)

hobbie2k
03-25-2009, 01:53 PM
I can't wait for the new Silvia. It will be interesting to see if it gets Nissan's VCR (Variable Compression Ratio) engines and how they hold up.

With fuel economy and emissions as top concerns nowadays, this could be the start of a small sports car revival.

cms-gt4
03-25-2009, 05:52 PM
I think the LFA had one purpose, to prove a point. I don't think Toyota will ever make it. I think they built it for #1 publicity for the brand, and #2 to show everyone that yes they can still build stupid fast cars, but they choose not to cause there is no money in it. A lot of the enthusiast think toyota lost their game, when in fact they are just wanting to play the money game and not cater to a small group.

Having a public super car that no one can buy likely makes them more money than actually putting together facilities to make and sell a flagship car that does not turn the car company much of a profit.

RedRkt01
03-25-2009, 07:41 PM
I think the LFA had one purpose, to prove a point. I don't think Toyota will ever make it. I think they built it for #1 publicity for the brand, and #2 to show everyone that yes they can still build stupid fast cars, but they choose not to cause there is no money in it. A lot of the enthusiast think toyota lost their game, when in fact they are just wanting to play the money game and not cater to a small group.

Having a public super car that no one can buy likely makes them more money than actually putting together facilities to make and sell a flagship car that does not turn the car company much of a profit.

I agree 100%. I've said before that the demographic that the Supra was marketed to was never able to afford it. That said, a lack of sales was the obvious killer of that platform. To some degree the same can be said for the Alltrac and the MR2. It is clear that if the Supra can't survive then there is no reason to offer the LFA to the USDM.

cms-gt4
03-25-2009, 07:44 PM
Interesting info from my inside source.


The engine is a true joint venture. While the layout is a Boxster and most likely based on the EJ20, the heads and fuel management is from Toyota. It will come with a high flow D/I design and be able to hit RPMS that no Subaru has been produced to do before.

Colossus20v
03-25-2009, 08:31 PM
^Everything I've read sounds promising. That sounds very interesting as well. I would love to see a 2.5L turbo model like they are talking about. I just hope for a 6-speed manual and lightweight. :)

cms-gt4
03-25-2009, 08:47 PM
Under 2800lbs is the last update I got.

Blackcloud
03-25-2009, 09:44 PM
its still going to be a girls car

Trance4c
03-25-2009, 10:32 PM
:lolhittin this whole thread is funny.

grayscale
03-26-2009, 01:46 AM
I agree 100%. I've said before that the demographic that the Supra was marketed to was never able to afford it. That said, a lack of sales was the obvious killer of that platform. To some degree the same can be said for the Alltrac and the MR2. It is clear that if the Supra can't survive then there is no reason to offer the LFA to the USDM.
Actually, that's the exact reason the Celica died just 4 short years ago. Why would they bother trying to revive such a thing that went down so recently? There's no economic sense in either of these cars, and even if they are put onto the market(most likely never here) it's still a very long way off.

GT4SOM
03-26-2009, 02:00 AM
Because the 7th gen Celica was really a honda as far as the platform goes. If they put out a nice RWD 4 banger and badge it a celica, I can tell you people will be buying this car. Depending on the price and also how they style it, it should no longer be a chics car. I think they should just do a throw back model like the Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, and VW beetle and just give us a new 8th gen 1st gen :D

grayscale
03-26-2009, 02:42 AM
Because the 7th gen Celica was really a honda as far as the platform goes. If they put out a nice RWD 4 banger and badge it a celica, I can tell you people will be buying this car.
Sorry, but wrong. Civics sell like hot cakes all day long, so by your estimation the Celica should have also. (BTW-how do you figure the 7g was a honda and not the 5g or 6g?) RWD flat4 will be an even smaller crowd than the fwd. Yeah people will buy the car, but Toyota will be licking their assholes to get the taste of bad sales out of their mouths.

VikingJZ
03-26-2009, 03:09 AM
Actually, that's the exact reason the Celica died just 4 short years ago. Why would they bother trying to revive such a thing that went down so recently? There's no economic sense in either of these cars, and even if they are put onto the market(most likely never here) it's still a very long way off.


Ford killed the Taurus name and then brought it back a year or two later.

Granted they still had a car in its place.

Except, the tC took that void....but it isn't a Toyota emblem on it.


It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility for them to revive the name.

grayscale
03-26-2009, 03:15 AM
Ford didn't kill off the Taurus. It's manufacturing was put on hold because they closed the plant here in GA where they were made before finishing the new one Mexico.

Chris
03-26-2009, 03:43 AM
Sorry, but wrong. Civics sell like hot cakes all day long, so by your estimation the Celica should have also. (BTW-how do you figure the 7g was a honda and not the 5g or 6g?) RWD flat4 will be an even smaller crowd than the fwd. Yeah people will buy the car, but Toyota will be licking their assholes to get the taste of bad sales out of their mouths.

Wasn't the Celica pretty overpriced for what it was? Especially compared to the Civic?

Grot
03-26-2009, 03:46 AM
Ford didn't kill off the Taurus. It's manufacturing was put on hold because they closed the plant here in GA where they were made before finishing the new one Mexico.

i thot ford killed it as sales had slumped, so they cam out with the 500.

When sales we even shittier with the 500 for a couple years, they rereleased the Taurus and sales went back up.

grayscale
03-26-2009, 03:57 AM
Wasn't the Celica pretty overpriced for what it was? Especially compared to the Civic?
Not at all, only about a $1k dif at each trim level cept for the GTS.

85gtsblackman
03-26-2009, 05:34 AM
Because the 7th gen Celica was really a honda as far as the platform goes

thank you someone agrees with me finally


Sorry, but wrong. Civics sell like hot cakes all day long, so by your estimation the Celica should have also.

sorry homie u fail, it was aimed moreso toward the rsx but it was more expensive, kinda what doomed the whole car in

1 was way to overpriced
2 mitsubishi reliability as far as engine and trans go, especailly compared to 4th 5th and 6th gen
3 you could buy several different cars that were close to the same thing
4 it was overpriced

mr2trd3
03-26-2009, 07:14 PM
thank you someone agrees with me finally



sorry homie u fail, it was aimed moreso toward the rsx but it was more expensive, kinda what doomed the whole car in

1 was way to overpriced
2 mitsubishi reliability as far as engine and trans go, especailly compared to 4th 5th and 6th gen
3 you could buy several different cars that were close to the same thing
4 it was overpriced

LOL. Funny list you have here.

cms-gt4
03-26-2009, 07:18 PM
If this car does indeed come out as the next celica, I think it would be in the best interest in the future of this site to start covering updates on it on the front page, and add a section to the forum for the new celica. It would really build up traffic and maybe help keep things alive for us old dogs.

grayscale
03-26-2009, 08:36 PM
sorry homie u fail, it was aimed moreso toward the rsx but it was more expensive, kinda what doomed the whole car in

1 was way to overpriced
2 mitsubishi reliability as far as engine and trans go, especailly compared to 4th 5th and 6th gen
3 you could buy several different cars that were close to the same thing
4 it was overpriced
Don't know where you got your info Joe, but it's a bit off:

2005 Toyota Celica MSRP: $17,670-$22,335

2005 Honda Civic MSRP: $13,260-$19,900

2005 Acura RSX MSRP: $20,275-$23,670

2005 Mistubishi Eclipse MSRP: $19,699-$24,899

2005 Honda S2000 MSRP: $33,150

2005 Mini Cooper MSRP: $16,950-$24,900

2005 Ford Focus MSRP: $13,465-$18,420

2005 Toyota MR2 Spyder MSRP: $25,145

2005 Hyundai Tiburon MSRP: $17,999 - $19,999

2005 Subaru Impreza MSRP: $18,245 - $25,045

2005 Mitsubishi Lancer MSRP: $14,299 - $18,499 ($32,990 EVO)

So yeah, in reality, the Celica was actually somewhere around the middle of the pack on pricing, and about the same place on performance.

Reliability? They're not perfect, but they look like it next to the troubles of others such as the Cooper, Tiburon, and Eclipse.



And I'm still wondering, what makes the 7g so much more 'honda-like' than say the 5th or 6th gen?

RedRkt01
03-27-2009, 12:26 PM
If this car does indeed come out as the next celica, I think it would be in the best interest in the future of this site to start covering updates on it on the front page, and add a section to the forum for the new celica. It would really build up traffic and maybe help keep things alive for us old dogs.

I second that vote.

85gtsblackman
03-28-2009, 06:54 AM
those were all prices for a gt, yeah i can get a 140 hp gt which was slower than my 00 tiburon or i could get a v6 6 speed powered something


i remember the gts was around 28k, yeah too much id get a wrx at that point

i worked at toyota and hyundai

there were more problems with anything with a zz series engine than the hyundai delta or beta engines

never had any probs outta my tib