View Full Version : Peek at todays project

03-23-2009, 12:45 AM

03-23-2009, 01:24 AM

03-23-2009, 01:37 AM

03-23-2009, 02:38 AM

So just curious, but are you gonna reinforce that area again? You took out a decent amount of material there. That being said, I like the arrangement. You using 1/0 welding cable?

What is the difference in these new AGM batteries? I have seen the term batted around, but never got a decent answer.

Did you see the thread (old) on AT.net where they relocated the battery to the inner fenderwell on the driver side? That was pretty slick too.


03-23-2009, 07:48 PM
Yeah, the bracket covers the sides and back and then clamps down on the top.

03-23-2009, 08:07 PM

So just curious, but are you gonna reinforce that area again? You took out a decent amount of material there. That being said, I like the arrangement. You using 1/0 welding cable?

What is the difference in these new AGM batteries? I have seen the term batted around, but never got a decent answer.

Did you see the thread (old) on AT.net where they relocated the battery to the inner fenderwell on the driver side? That was pretty slick too.

Actually there wasn't a whole lot there to begin with. The piece I cut out had a bunch of holes in it, and there's plenty of material in that area, not a real big stress point back there. It's the old jack location. So now if I need to access the battery I just remove the jack door and there it is. Now I don't have a big ass battery and box taking up my cargo area.
Why yes, it is 1/0 welding lead.:D

Here's a quick AGM rundown I found-
"A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.
AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:

Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.

Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.

The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents.

AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries.

AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery."

03-23-2009, 11:18 PM
Not a bad idea for locating the smaller battery.

03-24-2009, 03:17 AM
Wow! Thanks for all the great info Cannon. :)

03-25-2009, 01:47 AM
what do these batteries go for?

03-25-2009, 01:52 AM
Picked mine up on ebay for $69 new, but retail is like $125.

03-25-2009, 01:55 AM
Is this the only battery you have now, or do you still have one in the engine bay?

03-25-2009, 02:46 AM
It's the only one.

03-25-2009, 02:46 AM
did you do anything extra to prevent any positive to body contact?

03-25-2009, 03:05 AM
No, it's not as close as it appears. **Objects in picture are further apart than they appear**:laugh:

04-01-2009, 08:24 AM
can't tell what model that is s50-something?

04-01-2009, 05:06 PM

05-05-2009, 12:02 AM
Do you think this would put up with high drain audio devices?

05-05-2009, 12:14 AM
It's possible, AGMs are actually deep cycle batteries. I know xspower makes some agm audio batteries, but they are of the large size. I had the radio on one day while parked for about 45mins, low volume, along with the fog lights, and it started right up(didn't realize the fogs were on till later though!) What specs do you look for in audio app batteries?

05-05-2009, 01:01 AM
That's a very good question... I've not had to really pick and choose... I guess I'll give it a shot and if it doesn't like handling power, then I'll go with a yellow top... So since I can't find that exact unit on eBay what's the CCA for our cars?

05-05-2009, 02:14 AM
Well, CCAs can be deceiving. I had a link to a page that explained it well, but it I can't find it now. Joel did a better job of explaining this but I can't find that either. I'll give it a shot.
Let's say a battery is advertised at 500cca. This typically means that the battery can supply 500amps at 0* for approx. 30 seconds before dropping to 10.5 volts, the cutoff voltage. The reason I say typically is because most manufacturers that advertise CCAs don't advertise a time span and many of them have been found to manipulate this to make their batteries look better- i.e. in reality the same battery can provide 500amps at 0* but only for 15 seconds, or something of the sort.

Deep cycle batteries are measured in amp hours. The amp hour rating tells you how much amperage is available when discharged evenly over a 20 hour period. The amp hour rating is cumulative, so in order to know how many constant amps the battery will output for 20 hours, you have to divide the amp hour rating by 20. Example: If a battery has an amp hour rating of 75, dividing by 20 = 3.75. Such a battery can carry a 3.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. (10.5 volts is the fully discharged level, at which point the battery needs to be recharged.) A battery with an amp hour rating of 55 will carry a 2.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. You can also say the same 55AH battery will provide 5.5amps for 10 hours and so on.
So, the battery I have is rated at 19 amp hours, doesn't sound like much but consider like this. For 20 hours the battery could sustain a .95 amp draw for 20 hours or 1.9 amps for 10 hours, or 1140 amps for one minute or 2736 amps for 5 seconds. Now obviously these batteries are not intended to output 2736 amps all at once, but you can see it is well within their capacity to start a healthy vehicle at reasonable temperatures. So CCAs is not much of an issue with them. I know a lot of Honda guys are running a Dekka battery with a 14AH rating with no problems, and I believe Joel's Interstate wheelchair battery is something like 30AH, and he's been running his for quite some time.
Now that I look at it though, the answer to your first question mat be here. If you say you would need X amount of amps max(room for the draw of the bass hitting) and for how long, you would be able to figure out if one of these could sustain an audio system. In theory of course.

05-05-2009, 03:20 AM
Well, both amps have 60A fuses (30Ax2 on the amp, 60A on the distribution block). I'd ideally like to have enough power to run them for an hour and still be able to crank. Not that I'm ever going to do that, or that they'll be running max draw the whole time.

So it looks like I'd want a 340+AH battery... since they go 300 then 500, looks like I'll go with a 300AH

So looks like best bet would be a S680... At which point I could run my car and my buddy's Cobra (which I've had to put the BOOSTER CABLES to more than once)

Or rather, I wouldn't have to waste my gas running my car while jumping his.

05-05-2009, 04:10 AM
If my math is right, which it's not always, 340AH would give you 340amps for one hour. You shouldn't need nearly that much.
Also, 60 amps is what your fuses would blow at, so I'd guess you'd be drawing much less than that, I just don't remember how to figure fuse ratings or I'd tell you how much. IIRC, a fuse should be able to run at 75% of it's amp rating idefinitely. So 75% of 60 is 45amps, so I'd say on the safe side the most you'd draw is 45.
What is the next lowest AH they have?
Odyssey, Deka, and Interstate also make AGM batteries. I know interstate manages to pack more AHs into smaller batteries, they are just harder to find. You can look in other areas of applications too. Like I said, Joel's is a wheelchair battery-:wtf:

05-05-2009, 04:11 AM
I just realized I never posted finished pictures when all the panels were back in. :dr:

05-05-2009, 04:24 AM
fail Cannon

05-05-2009, 04:43 AM
Well, in that case, a mere 100AH would be sufficent

05-05-2009, 04:53 AM
Yeah, I was thinking anything over 90AH would be enough and leave you with a good buffer, but I don't how small you could find one of those either. Were you wanting a small one or just an AGM?

05-05-2009, 04:54 AM
Well, the XS Power website lists the S680 as the lowest battery anymore...

05-05-2009, 04:59 AM
You just have to know where to look-:D
But I think those are all too small anyway.

05-05-2009, 05:29 AM
Yes, they're too small... the 680 seems doable... the system will average 920 watts rms... and apparently that's close to the max of the unit. So I may just say screw it and get a Redtop and be done with it. I've got a bit of time, since I only drive the car for a week or so at a time. Or the 925 seems more suited to my needs, says it can be used as main battery AND 1000watts of power.