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sheptard
03-09-2009, 11:59 PM
Hi, I'm new, so forgive me if I violate some major forum etiquette with this post.

My Significant other has a 1987 and a 1986 Celica GT sitting on her farm, I can get my hands on either. They both need a new motor.

I currently have a DD and I was looking to the Celica to be a project car for me to work on without destroying my car.

So I know nothing about Celica's, But from what I have learned, these two are FWD's and have about 140HP at best.

What kinds of engines can (easily) be swapped into them? I know with enough money anything is possible, but right now I have about $3K CAD available for getting it running.

Thanks in Advance!

METDeath
03-10-2009, 02:02 AM
You can swap in the stock 3S-FE or replace it with a 5S-FE (zero modification required if you get a rev1 5S-FE, 90/91 in a Celica). You can get the 3S-GE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3S-GE) (still a non-turbo motor, but better performing). At this point, you have to do some wiring modifications and possibly axle/hub/brake upgrades.

Then there's the turbo motor, the 3S-GTE, which is pretty easy to find, has plenty of after market support. Again, you will need to do some wiring mods and such to get them running.

I would look at the condition of the car (rust, body damage, etc) and decide if you want to put a bunch of a money into the car or not. You'll most likely need to replace all the suspension components, which could run you over 2k depending on what you decide to get. The suspension stuff can be bought a few parts at a time, I wouldn't bother installing them until you have them all though, so you don't have to tear into the suspension multiple times.

sheptard
03-10-2009, 02:53 AM
Theres a quality shop a few hours south of me that has complete JDM 3S-GTE's w/ tranny for a decent price.

I'll compare between the two cars, but I don't remember my GF saying anything was wrong with the suspension. I'm assuming I can swap suspension parts between the 86 and the 87 without too many problems. I think I'd only run into issues if I tried to utilize parts from a different generation of Celica.

I think if I was going to do this, I'd be going with the 3S-GTE.

I've been reading about doing a 185 to 165 swap which I'm pretty sure is what I'm doing, can someone confirm?

Murgatroy
03-10-2009, 03:08 AM
The cars you have are ST162s. Not ST165s. The ST165 is the AWD 3SGTE equipped 4th Generation Celica.

The ST162 is the FWD 3S(F/G)E equipped Celica.

You can drop a 3SGTE of any generation in the car, however it will only be FWD and you will have to rewire the electrical harness at a minimum.

acidice333
03-10-2009, 03:17 AM
Wondering, where in Canada are you?

sheptard
03-10-2009, 04:09 AM
Located in Edmonton Alberta.

Turns out both the cars are the GTS trim level. Does that make my life any easier? Gonna call JDM Import tomorrow and see how much it would cost for them to do the swap which takes all the fun out of it... but saves me possibly destroying the car, lol.

Rick89GTS
03-10-2009, 04:11 AM
Neither of those Celicas gave you 140 HP.
It was the 86-89 GT-S (3SGE) that gave you 135 hp.
The stock 87 GT produced 115 hp = 3SFE DOHC
The stock 86 GT produced 96 HP = 2SE SOHC

If you've got $3,000 to get one of them running, I wouldn't bother unless the body is immaculate and rust free. These cars are over 20 years old, so check 'em over carefully for rust and damage.

What is your end goal for the car? Stock DD or performance?

(I know you said you wanted a project car, but keep in mind for $2500 -$3000, you can find a Celica GT-S in very good shape.)

CriScO
03-10-2009, 04:38 AM
Neither of those Celicas gave you 140 HP.
It was the 86-89 GT-S (3SGE) that gave you 135 hp.
The stock 86-89 GT produced 115 hp = 3SFE DOHC
The stock 86 ST produced 96 HP = 2SE SOHC
Fixed. :) 86 GT's introduced the 3S-FE, the 2S-E was ST trim. 87 was when ST's got the 3S-FE.

Edit: Forgot to say, for 3K you'd better get a fourth gen in freaking FANTASTIC condition.

Double edit: Canadian/US models may be different. Who knew?

Rick89GTS
03-10-2009, 04:59 AM
^CriScO, that's an interesting difference between the U.S. and Canadian markets.
Up here in Canada, all 86GT Celicas were powered by the 2SE; the 87 introduced the 3SFE.

CriScO
03-10-2009, 05:04 AM
Really? That is interesting, and good to know! Editing my post... :)

Rick89GTS
03-10-2009, 05:37 AM
Toyota does weird things like that, mostly because the Canadian market is much smaller, so they scale back their model lines. We only had the GT and GT-S, no ST model here until 1988.

Another example were the 88-89 AllTracs.
USA got 5 colours: red, white, blue, silver & black.
Canada got only 3 colours: red, white & black.

Sometimes it sucks to be in Canada :P

VikingJZ
03-10-2009, 06:26 AM
I think he means he can get the car for free and spend three grand getting the car the way he would like it.

No?

CriScO
03-10-2009, 07:11 AM
I think he means he can get the car for free and spend three grand getting the car the way he would like it.

No?
You are correct. I think everyone's argument is that it would be less hassle to buy a running one in good condition. Don't get me wrong, I loves my $300 forth gens, but if I had three grand in the first place I'd have one sweet All-Trac right now. :) So it's more a matter of "if you have that much, why not get a running one in good condition?"

Not to knock the OP's plan of course, I'd love to see him save even one of those cars. Just one of those "make sure you really want an extended project" type things.

sheptard
03-10-2009, 10:43 PM
I'll be going out to the farm where these car's live in the next couple of weeks so I can inspect them and see if I can find any obvious rust / things to worry about.

I spent a chunk of today looking at alternatives, but for the cost/performance ratio I think I may be better off with the Celica, as once I drop in a 90-94 3SGTE it should motor nicely.

Car won't be a DD, I have a Focus which fills that role nicely. I think it'll be a weekend warrior and hopefully I can take it to some AutoX events with my friends.

The biggest part of this project (I'm hoping) is going to be the engine swap. Once that's done and it's running, hopefully most everything else can be done piecemeal.

RedRkt01
03-10-2009, 10:58 PM
Hey Shep! Welcome to the boards! Whe you go to the farm be sure to take your camera along and take a bunch of pics. You should post them up here so we can all take a good look. I'm sure amongst us 4th Gen guys we can give you a pretty accurate assessment of what the cars are worth (to us).

Enjoy Celicatech!

sheptard
03-10-2009, 11:05 PM
Alright! Shouldn't be an issue convincing my gf to go see her parents. The only issue is trying to dig them out from the snow.

Thanks for the welcome and I'll see what I can do about pics.

Just checked ebay, and theres a decent alltrac for sale on ebay at a reasonable price. Hummmm.

Decisions sure do suck sometimes.

RedRkt01
03-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Whatever you do.....just make sure it is a 4th Gen ;)

theorhetoric
03-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Fixed. :) 86 GT's introduced the 3S-FE, the 2S-E was ST trim. 87 was when ST's got the 3S-FE.

Edit: Forgot to say, for 3K you'd better get a fourth gen in freaking FANTASTIC condition.

Double edit: Canadian/US models may be different. Who knew?


I have an 86 GT with a 2-se.. and it has lived in georgia all its life..

CriScO
03-12-2009, 11:32 PM
I have an 86 GT with a 2-se.. and it has lived in georgia all its life..
Hmm, I'm getting much info contradicting what I thought. May be research time...

theorhetoric
03-13-2009, 01:19 AM
Hmm, I'm getting much info contradicting what I thought. May be research time...


I think it had something to do with production dates. as I believe that the 3s-fe was not quite ready for production when the 4th gens debuted.. Mine has a production stamp of Dec 85 so that might have something to do with it..

RedRkt01
03-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Hmm, I'm getting much info contradicting what I thought. May be research time...


Fellas, the key is the ST161....it is the only Celica chassis to have used the 2SE and it was only offered in the US and only in 1986.

theorhetoric
03-13-2009, 10:31 PM
Fellas, the key is the ST161....it is the only Celica chassis to have used the 2SE and it was only offered in the US and only in 1986.

aye I knew that.. I just was just trying to give some reasoning for some reason..

RedRkt01
03-14-2009, 12:45 AM
;)

CriScO
03-14-2009, 04:46 AM
Fellas, the key is the ST161....it is the only Celica chassis to have used the 2SE and it was only offered in the US and only in 1986.
Of course, the point is that I didn't think the 161 chasis was ever badged "GT". That's what I need to look into.

Shadowlife25
03-14-2009, 05:07 AM
Fellas, the key is the ST161....it is the only Celica chassis to have used the 2SE and it was only offered in the US and only in 1986.

But wasn't it just mentioned that it was also available in Canada as well?

Now I'm confused...

RedRkt01
03-20-2009, 05:56 PM
But wasn't it just mentioned that it was also available in Canada as well?

Now I'm confused...

Mario.....I meant to say North America. It was offered in the US and Canada in either manual or automatic configurations and at both ST and GT trim levels. As I understand it Canada did not have an ST trim level in 1986; I'm not sure if they ever did. This is just a guess, but......smaller market = smaller product line up???

Chris.....I think that sums it up for you as well, right?

RedRkt01
03-20-2009, 06:02 PM
Anyone want to talk about the 1S or 4S?

theorhetoric
03-20-2009, 08:24 PM
Anyone want to talk about the 1S or 4S?


sure what the hell did they come in?? and what else did the 2s come in so I can hunt parts for the ole shitbrick..

RedRkt01
03-21-2009, 02:24 AM
I can't muster the effort to type.......buncha Jap 4th Gen for sure....maybe some other stuff. Likly Carinas, Corona Exiv, Corona ED....perhaps other stuff.

2S was available in Camrys before the 1987 Generation (2nd Gen???) began. Probably other stuff as well.