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Dougy90
02-27-2009, 04:27 AM
I was looking through the forums and i saw that pressure2 upgraded to some webcams to his motor. By the way...thats a sick set up u have pressure!

I want to get some more power out of my 5s and im really not ready to go turbo yet. would be adding a set of these cams be a smart decsion now?

more specifically they are the 294 cams. so far on my car i have a full exhaust system (4-1 header and 2.25 in piping), intake, and recently i replaced my headgasket and had new valve seals installed. everything is good on top. If i were to add these cams would i need to do any more modification?

Thanks for your input

v8killer
02-27-2009, 04:56 AM
hell yes like your valve springs/retainers you will need more fuel for the increased flow and you will have to get cam gears to time the cams correctly and on top of all that your power band will move to high rpm maybe higher than you can use on the stock ecu/bottom end... i'd siggest regrinding your cams to like 250 deg you'll be happy with that.

Ryan
02-27-2009, 06:24 AM
Upgrading the cams without supporting mods would be counter productive.

If you are wanting to do this, in order to see gains, you will need to increase air flow (I.E. port/polish, port matching the intake manifold) and opening up the exhaust, and fuel/tuning.

Someones threads you might want to look up is hookecho.

Hope this helps.

Hiko
02-27-2009, 06:34 AM
I have not put cams in my car, so what I say is what I've heard here over the years. Anyone who knows better should correct me...but, I'm pretty sure that...

You will not need upgraded fuel system, though an SAFC2 or greddy emanage would not be a bad upgrade to have at the same time. The injectors are good to about 160(?) hp, which will not be reached with the 294 cams and exhaust.

You will not need stiffer springs. The 294 is a very mild cam, so you will end up opening up the top end a bit before redline, but not have any gains into redline. Check this (http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2098&highlight=5sfe+lift) thread for a comparison of stock cams to the 294 grind.

And v8killer, it's somewhat of a nit-picky point, but he would not need cam gears, as the 5sfe uses a slave exhaust cam. Getting an adjustable cam gear is not overly useful for the 5sfe because of this.

Even with all that said, what 92-gt said is true. You do not stand to gain too much, though with such a mild cam upgrade, I do not think that a port and polish would be required first. The 5sfe is under cammed, but the head has its inherent stock limitations.

presure2
02-27-2009, 03:25 PM
wow, lots of misinformation here.

first, to the OP, thanks!

now on to the meat.

the webcams "294" grind, is not the duration of the cam its just a grind #.

no need for new springs or anything with them, they are a pretty mild cam.

an SAFC or somthing would definetly help, but is not a MUST have with these cams.

no port and polish, no headwork, none of that stuff is needed to see nice gains with these cams.
my buddy dustin gained a SOLID 20whp above 4krpm, and by redline like 30+whp.
it TOTALLY changes the way the car feels, in a very good way..lol
here is a dyno chart, stock 5s with an intake, VS a stock 5s with intake, cams, and exhaust.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/5sstockvs5s294webcams.jpg

not exactly baby gains like you would normally get with just an intake and exhaust on a 5s.
for people thinking about doing cams, doing them themselfs, i would plan on 3-4 days downtime in order to order the shims you will need once you reshim the cams.
i was lucky enough to have all the buckets and shims from dustins car when we installed them, and have a good buddy that works at toyota bring me over a bag of spare shims to pick thru if i needed them, which i only ended up needing 2.

grayscale
02-27-2009, 03:40 PM
Thank you Hiko for always being such a reliable source of information!

Thanks to pressure for having collected such valuable information.

I would like to stress that it would be a very good idea to use an safc or emanage with cams on the 5sfe.

While your on the subject, take a look at some of our stickies, a lot of good stuff to learn in there about the 5sfe and building it. :bigthumbu

Ryan
02-27-2009, 07:33 PM
Would you not agree though, that the gains would be much more noticeable with supporting mods?

RedRkt01
02-27-2009, 08:01 PM
I would think so......

grayscale
02-27-2009, 08:27 PM
Would you not agree though, that the gains would be much more noticeable with supporting mods?
I agree, but that is true for any other mod. Noticeable? You don't get any more noticeable than cams except for FI. Cams aren't like doing exhaust or MSD junk or intakes or whatever. You put cams in, drive the car for the first time and say out loud to yourself "Holy shit! I'm glad I spent my money on those things!" We're not talking miniscule gains here. :bigthumbu
Now, if some one has the head half way off, and they have a bunch of money and spare time glaring at them, then yes, it would be much more prudent yo do a bunch of other work while you're in there. But in no way is anything else needed to "notice gains from cam work- it usually bites you in the ass!

Ryan
02-27-2009, 08:30 PM
Well, yes, but if you did the head work and some sort of piggy-back or ems, you would shit your pants and say OMFGZ I ARE HAS POWERZ!!!!!!

grayscale
02-27-2009, 08:31 PM
Um, no, not really.

RedRkt01
02-27-2009, 09:19 PM
Um, no, not really.
lol

Ryan
02-27-2009, 09:20 PM
I was being a smart-ass there. :hehe:

I just think if you are going to put the money into the cams, why not to a bit more work, and have a really nice-flowing setup?? But i guess thats just me.

Dougy90
02-27-2009, 09:56 PM
wow! thanks for the reply everyone. I would like to install these cams. pressure2...since you have done this mod, would u recommend doing both the intake and exhaust cams?

I pretty much figured it would be a good idea to do some sort of fuel management so I would plan on doing that at the same time. Would a simple piggy back system work and if so what is a good system to operate with?

RedRkt01
02-27-2009, 10:02 PM
I was being a smart-ass there. :hehe:

I just think if you are going to put the money into the cams, why not to a bit more work, and have a really nice-flowing setup?? But i guess thats just me.

No way, dude. I think that's everybody.....at least everybody who's somebody. If you don't think that way you're probably a half-asser. I've got my head so wrapped around that idea that I've decided to even buy another cylinder head......and put all of my goodies in that one.

Ryan
02-27-2009, 10:14 PM
lawl.

I would say a safc would suffice for you, others may say differently. But in the end, it all depends one what you like.

grayscale
02-28-2009, 12:53 AM
would u recommend doing both the intake and exhaust cams?

Would a simple piggy back system work and if so what is a good system to operate with?
Yes, you have to do both cams.

You can use an SAFC, SAFC2, eManage; to name the most common and affordable ones. Just remember to save some money to be able to take it somewhere and have it properly tuned.

grayscale
02-28-2009, 12:54 AM
I was being a smart-ass there. :hehe:
I was too. :wiggle:

Ryan
02-28-2009, 01:03 AM
I <3 Cannon. :hehe:

Dougy90
02-28-2009, 07:04 AM
i figured that u had to do both cams, but i swear i read somewhere that someone had only swapped in a new intake cam. neways.

if i end up purchasing these cams ill get some sort of fuel management. how much would/should it realistically cost get buy the cams, safc (depending on what i get), and for tuning. because if the price is comprable...ill just end up buying a 3sgte and build that and make that my runner.

i saw on the webcams site that they want almost $700! seems a bit much to me u think

Ryan
02-28-2009, 07:06 AM
You can find SAFC2's for like $150 on ebay, same as the e-manage.

joe's gt
02-28-2009, 07:52 AM
You can't get any better power out of an N/A than cams beside going full out forced induction. thanx for the dyno presure2, very enlightening on how much of a power gain that just that mod can produce. The only reason I could see doing headwork is preparing for a future forced induction build. Its just not worth the time and money for the minor gains in VE compared to the cams themselves. However, as everyone else has already said, your gonna have to get an safc2 or equivalent to properly adjust fuel for the increased flow and realize the greatest power potential of your mod.

grayscale
02-28-2009, 04:31 PM
i figured that u had to do both cams, but i swear i read somewhere that someone had only swapped in a new intake cam. neways.

if i end up purchasing these cams ill get some sort of fuel management. how much would/should it realistically cost get buy the cams, safc (depending on what i get), and for tuning. because if the price is comprable...ill just end up buying a 3sgte and build that and make that my runner.

i saw on the webcams site that they want almost $700! seems a bit much to me u think
That's supply and demand for you. You could get cams from Colt Cams a little bit cheaper but I don't know how much. You can get an ems for anywhere from $100-$200 for what you need. Don't know about tuning, depends on what shops in your area charge, safe guess might be $150. Yeah, this isn't cheap, that's why most people do end up swapping. I'm not sure where you are in WA but you if you are near them you could pm KoreanJoey or sloceli and ask them about shops in your area.

presure2
02-28-2009, 04:55 PM
yea, geoff from colt cams quoted me 200$ cheaper than the webcams new, but i was a little worried about having to use extra shims that geoff would provide because his cams are not hardwelded and reground.
i ended up getting my set used from dustin for cheaper than what the colt cams would have cost me too.

Hookecho
02-28-2009, 05:55 PM
i run colt cams in my motor. you won't have any problem with spitting out the shims if that is your concern. i can't remember the size of the shims he sent me, but they weren't so tall that the factory shim would not seat properly on top of them.

to answer the question about only using one cam. yes you can only upgrade the intake cam. you'll gain alot of torque but very little hp. it's been done by Snodgrass at mr2oc. i'd have to find the dyno sheet to tell you were the gains ocurred in the rpms. do i recommend, no! why have one when you can have 2. you don't really have to spend the money on a port and polish to see mad gains, but i would at least port match the intake. you'll definately want a header too.

Dougy90
03-01-2009, 03:18 AM
i have the header already and i know few guys that work at a couple of performance shops here in the south puget sound. Since the colt cams are not hard welded or reground how reliable are they? I dont wanna have pieces of my camshafts breaking off in my head!

presure2
03-01-2009, 04:02 AM
i run colt cams in my motor. you won't have any problem with spitting out the shims if that is your concern. i can't remember the size of the shims he sent me, but they weren't so tall that the factory shim would not seat properly on top of them.

to answer the question about only using one cam. yes you can only upgrade the intake cam. you'll gain alot of torque but very little hp. it's been done by Snodgrass at mr2oc. i'd have to find the dyno sheet to tell you were the gains ocurred in the rpms. do i recommend, no! why have one when you can have 2. you don't really have to spend the money on a port and polish to see mad gains, but i would at least port match the intake. you'll definately want a header too.
thats good to hear about the shims, i will keep that in mind if i ever decide to go with a more agressive, turbo minded cam, geoff and i talked about doing a staggered setup for my turbo setup, which he had told me may help spool, while still getting great gains up top.
doug, i wouldnt worry about the reliability of the cams, especially if you start with a set of rev2 cams.

v8killer
03-02-2009, 04:38 AM
wow, lots of misinformation here.

first, to the OP, thanks!

now on to the meat.

the webcams "294" grind, is not the duration of the cam its just a grind #.

no need for new springs or anything with them, they are a pretty mild cam.

an SAFC or somthing would definetly help, but is not a MUST have with these cams.

no port and polish, no headwork, none of that stuff is needed to see nice gains with these cams.
my buddy dustin gained a SOLID 20whp above 4krpm, and by redline like 30+whp.
it TOTALLY changes the way the car feels, in a very good way..lol
here is a dyno chart, stock 5s with an intake, VS a stock 5s with intake, cams, and exhaust.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/5sstockvs5s294webcams.jpg

not exactly baby gains like you would normally get with just an intake and exhaust on a 5s.
for people thinking about doing cams, doing them themselfs, i would plan on 3-4 days downtime in order to order the shims you will need once you reshim the cams.
i was lucky enough to have all the buckets and shims from dustins car when we installed them, and have a good buddy that works at toyota bring me over a bag of spare shims to pick thru if i needed them, which i only ended up needing 2.

lol my bad i thought it was duration.... i have been known to "skim through" the posts- i'll learn eventually not to sorry again

Dougy90
03-02-2009, 06:44 AM
i really wanna gain more up top and i think im gunna go with a set a cams. ill prolly get them some wheres in the middle of the summer along with a fuel management system.

im gunna give some shops a call and see about doing tuning and maybe if this one shop works out for the summer and a possible job lol. who knows...im tired of bustin tires all day u kno. then maybe some free dyno time hmmmmmm...sounds good to me