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sloceli
03-16-2005, 01:02 AM
Luni and I discussed this last night and could come up with an easy way to fix my problems. I have read nukes threads on the matter and have tried most of it to no avail. Here are my symptoms; will not reach operating temp while in motion, could be thermostat. Running rich could be because I'm not at operating temp. Burning a bunch of oil. It has been checked out by Pepboys which is a state emissions authorized service center, they could not tell me a thing and referred my to Yota. I got pretty much the same thing from them the only problems they found were slight vacuums leak where my boost gauge was spliced, cracked ECU temp sensor, and said the ECU was getting a bum o2 reading because I spliced my gauge into a shielded wire. The first test results were bad, HC's @ cruse 378, 160 allowed, idle 745, 220 allowed. CO @ cruse 7.69 1.1 allowed idle 4.74, 1.2 allowed. It sat for a few months and I retested 2 weeks ago after replacing plugs, O2 sensor, vacuum lines temp sensor, resetting timing to 10* cleaning egr, filled with 92 octane + two bottles of 108 booster and some no smoke. The results after were HC @ cruse 258, idle 625, CO @ cruse 3, idle 9.95. So a little better but not much. The cat out put is 100* off but still within specs. Any help would be appreciated.

Galcobar
03-16-2005, 01:54 AM
The high HC and high CO are typical of a rich AFR -- I'm thinking they're symptoms, and probably so is your AFR.

You've noted the temp sensor as a possible problem, which would cause your rich AFR and thus your high HC/CO readings. Weird idea I know, but are your guages also showing a low temp? If so, that says the sensor is probably okay, and it's the ECU that's screwed up. You mentioned the ECU thermo is cracked -- is the crack in a place that would expose the electronics to heat/water?

The burning oil should be considered. Possible you've got a problem inside the engine head, say bad piston seals letting oil up into the combustion chamber? Burning oil would certainly create high HC and CO readings. I imagine (speculating) this would reduce complete burning and act almost as a suppressent on combustion, lowering temperatures.

The only other possibility I could consider is a bad catalytic converter -- but that only addresses the emissions, not the low operating temp, rich AFR or burning oil. However, the rich exhaust gases will damage the cat internally and reduce its efficiency. You might have a symptom that's aggravating the problem.

sloceli
03-16-2005, 06:35 AM
The temp sensor was changed before the retest. From what pepboys said the cat is still within spec. I'm sure my oil seals are toast the engine has 168,xxx. I did a compression test last year it was around 200 across all 4.

I think it's going to be something simple. My thermostat could be stuck open. I could also have a bad map.

sloceli
03-19-2005, 07:29 AM
:bump: Someone has to have some ideas.

Punisher
03-19-2005, 08:56 AM
No no.. you would REALLY know it if you had a bad MAP... Your thermostat is stuck open that is why you can't reach operating temps while driving.. That is also why you are running rich, especially at idle.. your cat is a 100F above normal? That is odd... i believe that cats run hotter when you are lean... unless, because you are getting more fuel than normal, it's getting down to the cat causing it to burn up.. I'd get that thermostat in and then see how things are.

sloceli
03-19-2005, 09:14 AM
No no.. you would REALLY know it if you had a bad MAP... Your thermostat is stuck open that is why you can't reach operating temps while driving.. That is also why you are running rich, especially at idle.. your cat is a 100F above normal? That is odd... i believe that cats run hotter when you are lean... unless, because you are getting more fuel than normal, it's getting down to the cat causing it to burn up.. I'd get that thermostat in and then see how things are.


I should have specified the cat better. Input is normal but output is 100* below but still within specs.

sloceli
03-19-2005, 08:04 PM
FUCK FUCK FUCK, I failed again. I just replaced the thermostat. It is idling better and not smoking as much, gets up to temp quick and stays there. My AFR gauge still says I'm running rich. Now I have no Ideas.

Punisher
03-19-2005, 09:29 PM
Well, the other things that control fuel input are O2 sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, and MAP sensor..

So, check your MAP sensor's vacuum hose.. make sure it isn't cracked or anything.. infact just replace it with a new tight fitting hose.. don't even waste your time to check it just replace it. a foot of vac hose costs like 50cents or less lol..

Then check your TPS.. use a marker and draw a straight line across the mount bracket so you know exactly where its original position was.. and then fiddle with it just slightly..

One other thing you can do is start the car let it warm up to NOT (normal op. temp) and pop the diag. box.. using a multi meter set on VDC put the ground probe on E1 terminal and pos. probe on Vf1 terminal... Normal voltage is 2.5V, higher means richer, lower means leaner.. That is telling you how your ECU is trimming the fuel via injector pulse width.

sloceli
03-20-2005, 12:41 AM
Thanks. I have some vacuum hose, I just replaced all the EGR ones. Soon as my lil girl sucks her bottle down I'll go tinker w/ it.

sloceli
03-20-2005, 01:27 AM
So I changed the vacuum line, the old one was holding vacuum. Checked the VF1 & E1 I'm getting 2.33-2.34v so that would mean lean???? I fiddled with the TPS, smacked it around and jiggled it a few times, idle fluctuated some. Checked the AFR gauge and it was in stoich for the first time in a while.

Punisher
03-20-2005, 07:34 AM
2.3 is fine.. mine is that as well another person i know that checked theres.

Means the ECU is keeping a good injector pulse for idle.

I guess it was an improperly adjusted TPS.

Luni
03-20-2005, 08:47 AM
Pull your EGR off and clean that out.

And try running seafoam through, and then retarding your timing as well.

Punisher
03-20-2005, 07:26 PM
Sea Foam is a good idea.

gt lifthback
03-20-2005, 07:50 PM
i got a similar problem my car would not pass. well i did a pretest firts and they told me to take to a mobil station they charge me 300 and they gurantee it will pass. the problem with my car was the catalic converter so i did replace it and after that i took it to the test only station and my car passed. Couple of my friends took their civics and other cars to Gas stations and the funny thing is that mobil station will garantee it will pass so u might as well take it there. Hope this helps

sloceli
03-20-2005, 09:54 PM
I ran seafoam through last year sometime and haven't driven the car much since then. I now think it's the TPS and or the cat. The Pepboys guys said that it was in spec but if I have been running that rich for that long its probably clogged.

I have to tap the gas pedal a few times after releasing it to get the idle to come down to were it's supposed to be. Might as well take it and get the cat replaced and run another bottle of seafoam through her. Now should I get a high flow or an OE replacement? OE is some serious $$$$, I could get a high flow and have it installed for less.

Punisher
03-20-2005, 10:42 PM
GO with a high flow.. a universal magnaflow cat will do the trick.. Pick em up on ebay for like 40-50 bucks.

sloceli
03-21-2005, 08:44 PM
Finally got some good news. I called around today to find a shop to do my cat. They all sucked one wanted 320 and the guy wont be back till next Monday :wtf:. The last place I called is the shit. They run a diagnostic try to fix it... take it to the emissions check and if not I make up the difference to = $150.00 and I get a waiver. Either way it will be up and running this weekend :woot:

Punisher
03-22-2005, 04:17 AM
Dude you've spent an insane amount of money on all this BS lol.

sloceli
03-22-2005, 04:56 AM
Man you have know idea. The last shop is hookin me up, since the jack ass at Pepboys didn't sign the paperwork it doesn't count even though I paid them $50.00. :madfawk:

The guy at the new shop is going to sign them both so only another $100.00 +15-another retest +31 for registration and I'll be set. I took about 15 receipts with me so he wouldn't replace anything that I have already done, the least amount was about 40 and the most was 300+

Who ever said "These cars are money pits" was right. But I just cant part with damn thing.

Punisher
03-22-2005, 05:45 AM
These cars aren't money pits.. it's the mechanics and state that rip your ass lol.