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theorhetoric
12-22-2008, 02:51 AM
can anybody tell me what trans came in the 4th gen with the 2se?

tried to search. but search can't find any posts with the word transmisson in it...go figure..

Grot
12-22-2008, 03:23 AM
i would assume it is the same tranny as the 5s.

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 04:05 AM
i would assume it is the same tranny as the 5s.


Why would you assume that? For the 4th Gen it was either the C-52 or the S-53. Neither of which ever saw action in a Celica sporting a 5SFE.

To theorhetoric: You might wanna fill out your ride info so I can see what year and model you're running. I'm assuming it is a 1986 Celica ST. In that case, I'll put my money on the C-52.

CriScO
12-22-2008, 04:06 AM
Auto or manual?

It's the same as the 3S-FE versions either way. A140L if it's auto, S53 if manual.

CriScO
12-22-2008, 04:08 AM
Why would you assume that? For the 4th Gen it was either the C-52 or the S-53. Neither of which ever saw action in a Celica sporting a 5SFE.
S53 was used on the 5S until the 94 model year, when replaced with the S54. It's a very accurate assumption, actually.

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 04:10 AM
My bad.....I thought they made the switch with the 5th Gen intro.

CriScO
12-22-2008, 04:17 AM
My bad.....I thought they made the switch with the 5th Gen intro.
No worries. :) Sixth gen was the marker.

Grot
12-22-2008, 04:17 AM
Why would you assume that?

I assumed that becasue essentialy the 2s and 5s are the same block just different revisions. i would assume the tranny bolt patterns would be similar if not identical.


It's a very accurate assumption, actually.

Thank you.

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 04:25 AM
I assumed that becasue essentialy the 2s and 5s are the same block just different revisions. i would assume the tranny bolt patterns would be similar if not identical.



Thank you.

You can't always use that logic. The 3SGTE uses the same block/different revision, right? Well you have to perform some modification to use an factory NA block for a GTE setup. All kinds of grinding is needed. Simple enough, but not mix'n'match.

Also of the same logic is that the 3S is closer in revision and did use the same tranny in most cases. However correct you may be in this situation, your assumption would've been better suited for the 3S.


You're welcome.

Grot
12-22-2008, 04:32 AM
grinding no doubt, they are still plug n play.

But yes, i understand your point.
And my knowledge was based off the 3S and translated to 5S.


Now a little off topic,
using the same logic would the 3s and the 5s be similar the way the 2s and the 5s are?

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 04:36 AM
It's all the same chunk of metal with different displacments. Same for the 1S and the 4S in japan.

I also wouldn't say "plug'n'play" because that would be a straight bolt-on job. The grinding negates it being "plug'n'play". I would go so far as to say that the block on an '89 GTS being a 3S and the block from an '89 Alltrac came from different casting molds. Both '89 and both 3S, but not EXACTLY the same.

CriScO
12-22-2008, 08:18 AM
Now a little off topic,
using the same logic would the 3s and the 5s be similar the way the 2s and the 5s are?
Each revision is very close, aside from a few minor differences. Generally the external differences on the 3S blocks with different castings are actually greater then the ones on the blocks cast for the F head.

Main difference between the 2S-E and 3S-FE is the head. As the engine title indicates, the 2S didn't have and was never equipped with a twin cam head. Both were 2.0, though.

Then if we look at the 3S-FE and 5S-FE, the biggest difference is the increased displacement to 2.2. The block itself didn't gain size, it was bored.

There's also a slew of minor refinements between all of the revisions as well, sensor placement, oil filter size, distributor, etc. Nothing extremely major to have to work around, though, assuming it was made for the same head. You'd have a hard time swapping a 2S shortblock into a 3S or 5S vehicle, because the coolant passages wouldn't line up. For that matter, I couldn't tell you if the head would even fit. So really the closest two are the 3rd and 5th revisions.

Man, I feel like ranting tonight, don't I? :hehe:

85gtsblackman
12-22-2008, 08:56 AM
t hought some 4th gens had a s52 trans

c52 trans only bolts up to fwd a series such as the 4afe, they were used in corollas

theorhetoric
12-22-2008, 12:34 PM
Why would you assume that? For the 4th Gen it was either the C-52 or the S-53. Neither of which ever saw action in a Celica sporting a 5SFE.

To theorhetoric: You might wanna fill out your ride info so I can see what year and model you're running. I'm assuming it is a 1986 Celica ST. In that case, I'll put my money on the C-52.

1986 Celica GT coupe actually..

and I have tried to make my car display in the garage but all I get is year/model/trim when I post

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 01:28 PM
t hought some 4th gens had a s52 trans

c52 trans only bolts up to fwd a series such as the 4afe, they were used in corollas

Nope. All my workshop manuals have C52 references in them. Even my workshop transmission manual for my 3rd Gen 3SGE swap has an entire section devoted to the C52......and that's from the overseas 6th Gen.

Theorhetoric: That info isn't updated in your garage.....it is in the profile section.

ciento44
12-22-2008, 02:55 PM
Joey has a 3rd gen 3sge, i think he said that his had an S54 on it.

C-series trannies aren't interchangeable with S-series, unless i'm missing something huge. I like the ratios on the C-series better, if i could change, that would be amazing. I'd like to try a shorter tranny on a 5sfe.

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 03:00 PM
Joey has a 3rd gen 3sge, i think he said that his had an S54 on it.

C-series trannies aren't interchangeable with S-series, unless i'm missing something huge. I like the ratios on the C-series better, if i could change, that would be amazing. I'd like to try a shorter tranny on a 5sfe.

The overseas 6th Gens came with either the C52, S54, or E56 tranny. 3rd Gen 3SGEs generally came with the S54 or the E56 depending on year and trim level. My 3SGE came with the E56. Reference Toyota Publication RM380E for verification.

Edit: I think the confusion is steming from tranny/engine combos between the A chassis and the S chassis. for the 4th Gen the AT160 had an A series engine (obviously) and was likely partnered with the C52. What I'm unsure about is why the Haynes manual references the C52 when the the USDM didn't get an A chassis Celica....this is the reason I mentioned the C52 in the first place.

ciento44
12-22-2008, 03:05 PM
Roight... the C52 would have been mated to the 7afe. I think that's what i was trying to get across. I'm still a bit groggy. :p

S-series engines can take S or E-series trannies.

RedRkt01
12-22-2008, 03:06 PM
edit

ciento44
12-22-2008, 03:14 PM
Ah hah!

theorhetoric
12-22-2008, 10:21 PM
ok so if I am reading right it is the s53? not sure everybody is wondering which engine is which..

oh and thanks Red it should be displaying properly now..

RedRkt01
12-23-2008, 02:09 AM
No prob. I'm here to help. And you're correct; Consensus is on the S53.

RedRkt01
12-23-2008, 02:17 AM
Since we got on the subject of differences in the S family I thought I'd go ahead and add some info.

ST160 1S (1800cc) Carbed
ST163 4S (1800cc) Carbed

theorhetoric
12-23-2008, 10:30 PM
ST161 2s powered 86 model year


oh yeah is there any to confirm that this is the s53? as I have had the trans swapped out before when I was more ignorant of these things..