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supra97
12-15-2008, 01:45 AM
First off a big thanks to everyone who's answered my other posts about various things, your input is greatly appreciated!

Now, I've come down to the point where it's time to decide what I want/need for my next car and whether or not it's financially worth it. I have two options now, and only a few days to decide.

OPTION ONE:

Blue 1991 Celica GT-S
$2650.00
269000km on the odometer
CAI, 20HP chip off of Ebay (bleh), all gaskets and seals recently done, ball joints in the rear replaced, brakes done, timing belt done, water pump done, clutch done
Runs beautifully, idles perfectly smooth even in the -8 weather here right now, starts up quickly, virtually no rust to speak of
Clean car, minor scratch here and there one small dent
BIG PROBLEM: Transmission grinds into second and third almost every time. As some of you might remember I had this problem once before on the Celica I had previously. Turns out the synchros needed to be replaced. I know nothing about transmissions so for the shop to do it I was looking at $1000+. I heard tell if you pull the tranny yourself and take it in it's cheaper?

OPTION TWO:
Pearl White 1992 MR2
$5000.00
301000km on the odometer
Turbo, not driven hard
Water pump, timing belt, hoses, alternator, and battery all done this year.
Don't know if turbo has been replaced or not yet, waiting to find out.
Body has ZERO rust, absolutely beautiful condition, T-Top, all options, aftermarket rims, exhaust, fog lights, leather seats are in excellent shape
BIG PROBLEM: I hear tell turbos are expensive to replace, and this one is up there in mileage. How much longer can I expect from this engine? What sort of things should I expect to go wrong in the next 50000kms? The body is incredible inside and out, so it would be worth it to swap in a newer 3SGTE if this one dies. But I can't be spending that kind of money in the next six months, so should I get this car now and hope it holds up or can I expect it to hold up? What kinds of questions should I ask him?

It seems to me neither car is going anywhere soon. The MR2 has been up for private sale since July, when I was originally going to but it, because he hasn't advertised it much at all. He's waiting for the right person to come along because it was his baby for the past 8 years. He's been on Facebook and talked to me a lot over the past few months since we met (I couldn't afford the car in July yet) and has decided to let it go to me. But this Celica has come up too, and I'm not sure which one would be a better financial decision. I don't want a different car, and there aren't really any other Celicas or MR2s for sale right now that are a decent price.

WWYD????

Corey Darling
12-15-2008, 01:50 AM
What happened to the gtfour? Between the GTS with a tranny problem, and a gt4 in need of a 300$ clutch, i would get the four...


I heard tell if you pull the tranny yourself and take it in it's cheaper?

if you're willing to go that far, then you're not far off from just replacing the clutch in the gt4, yourself.

EDIT:

if the four is no longer an option... i don't know what i would choose... I would lean more towards the MR2 myself, but for practicality, i would get the Celica.

A rebuilt CT26 turbo from ATS is ~700 if i recall. And a new KO racing turbo is ~2.5 grand.


If you choose the GTS celica, it might be a cheaper option to find a used tranny for about ~200 and just swap it in?

Any pictures?

Freshnicity
12-15-2008, 02:00 AM
First off a big thanks to everyone who's answered my other posts about various things, your input is greatly appreciated!

Now, I've come down to the point where it's time to decide what I want/need for my next car and whether or not it's financially worth it. I have two options now, and only a few days to decide.

OPTION ONE:

Blue 1991 Celica GT-S
$2650.00
269000km on the odometer
CAI, 20HP chip off of Ebay (bleh), all gaskets and seals recently done, ball joints in the rear replaced, brakes done, timing belt done, water pump done, clutch done
Runs beautifully, idles perfectly smooth even in the -8 weather here right now, starts up quickly, virtually no rust to speak of
Clean car, minor scratch here and there one small dent
BIG PROBLEM: Transmission grinds into second and third almost every time. As some of you might remember I had this problem once before on the Celica I had previously. Turns out the synchros needed to be replaced. I know nothing about transmissions so for the shop to do it I was looking at $1000+. I heard tell if you pull the tranny yourself and take it in it's cheaper?

OPTION TWO:
Pearl White 1992 MR2
$5000.00
301000km on the odometer
Turbo, not driven hard
Water pump, timing belt, hoses, alternator, and battery all done this year.
Don't know if turbo has been replaced or not yet, waiting to find out.
Body has ZERO rust, absolutely beautiful condition, T-Top, all options, aftermarket rims, exhaust, fog lights, leather seats are in excellent shape
BIG PROBLEM: I hear tell turbos are expensive to replace, and this one is up there in mileage. How much longer can I expect from this engine? What sort of things should I expect to go wrong in the next 50000kms? The body is incredible inside and out, so it would be worth it to swap in a newer 3SGTE if this one dies. But I can't be spending that kind of money in the next six months, so should I get this car now and hope it holds up or can I expect it to hold up? What kinds of questions should I ask him?

It seems to me neither car is going anywhere soon. The MR2 has been up for private sale since July, when I was originally going to but it, because he hasn't advertised it much at all. He's waiting for the right person to come along because it was his baby for the past 8 years. He's been on Facebook and talked to me a lot over the past few months since we met (I couldn't afford the car in July yet) and has decided to let it go to me. But this Celica has come up too, and I'm not sure which one would be a better financial decision. I don't want a different car, and there aren't really any other Celicas or MR2s for sale right now that are a decent price.

WWYD????

GT-S all day, only because im a big celica fan.

But, that MR2 sounds great. Up to you in the end though.

I would say GT-S. You can swap out that tranny if you dont feel like rebuilding.

Shadowlife25
12-15-2008, 02:04 AM
If you read her other thread, apparently the GT4 has been sold. :(

That being the case, I'd go for the MR2. should be fine for a decent while.

Or, you get the GTS and swap it for less than or the same as you would spend on the MR2.

Either way, there is decent potential to both , provided you have the $.

Corey Darling
12-15-2008, 02:05 AM
Ya i looked at the other thread a few mins ago, and it just said she hadn't heard from him didn't it?

Shadowlife25
12-15-2008, 02:07 AM
I think she followed up by saying that it had been sold? Either way, it seems that unfortunately the GT4 is no longer an option. :( Would have been a fantastic car though.. sigh.

supra97
12-15-2008, 02:09 AM
No he sold it. The jerk sold it before even getting back to me. Maybe somebody on this forum snuck behind my back....haha

Anyway...I really can't afford to have a car that's down for a long period of time, so a transmission swap is a viable option but how long would it take?

And geez I really like this MR2. I'll have pics in a few minutes of both cars.

Shadowlife25
12-15-2008, 02:12 AM
Tranny swap is about the same as dropping the motor. 3hours out and about the same to re-install. It can be done in a weekend easily. If I remember correctly, your fiance is mechanically inclined, yes? If that's the case, it should go smoothly. :)

supra97
12-15-2008, 02:12 AM
Pics as promised:

MR2

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/fatal_lightning/mr2/000_0079.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/fatal_lightning/mr2/000_1221.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/fatal_lightning/mr2/000_1220.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/fatal_lightning/mr2/000_0078.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff17/fatal_lightning/mr2/000_0081.jpg

Celica:

http://images.craigslist.org/1291g21303oa3pa3l08ce00955d9a96ed1973.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/1f31491g33kc3m13la8ce9a6cf3386ff61d6d.jpg

extremeskillz
12-15-2008, 02:15 AM
Clean MR2. I would get that.

extremeskillz
12-15-2008, 02:16 AM
oh and the club never save a car from robbery. If fact it's just asking someone to rob the car lol.

supra97
12-15-2008, 02:17 AM
The celica is clean too...but the pics stink lol

I really am leaning heavily towards the MR2 but I think I might offer him less than 5Gs for it. What would you guys offer considering the mileage>

supra97
12-15-2008, 02:17 AM
Oh extremeskillz i want to make love to your car

It reminds me of my baby, may she rest in peace.

Shadowlife25
12-15-2008, 02:20 AM
He just did a major service, so it should be in great shape. I'd say not less than $4,500. Plus, you can always de-rice the interior.:hehe:

The GTS is still a great idea though. You could do a swap in a weekend. If you want it to be really simple, just order a harness from tweak or something. Then it's good to go basically out of the box. ;)

extremeskillz
12-15-2008, 02:21 AM
Celica offer 2200 and Mr2 offer 4500 or 4200 (cash). See what happens. Thanks for comment about my car. Idk how rare mr2's are in your area so you have to play with it.

Ryan
12-15-2008, 02:33 AM
The mr2 looks really clean. I would go with that.

Corey Darling
12-15-2008, 02:38 AM
Holy white batman

Yeah i'd get the MR2 myself.... How are they in snow? I guess pretty decent with the weight over the rear wheels?

supra97
12-15-2008, 02:47 AM
That's what I'm thinking. The guy who owns it said it was a blast in the snow.

vip09
12-15-2008, 02:51 AM
I would go with the MR2. Sounds expensive for the mileage though.

Cavanagh
12-15-2008, 02:57 AM
That's what I'm thinking. The guy who owns it said it was a blast in the snow.
Well, so far it hasnt been a blast for me. My rear end is all over the road. But i would pick the 2 over a celica with a bad tranny.
Best of luck.

mr2trd3
12-15-2008, 04:09 AM
Wow. That MR2 has been done so much wrong to. Wheels, mufflers, interior, fawked up windshield wipers. Ick!

I don't quite know the market in Canada for MR2's and Celica, but the prices seem very high. Of the two, I'd definitely go MR2 as the car is in every way better than the Celica. The only thing the Celica is better at is daily driving (comfort, cheap to maintain, etc) and practicality (more space, seats four passengers, etc). At ~186,000 miles, IF everything is original on the MR2 and no major services have been performed, I'd look for another option. However, at that mileage, I am fairly certain the turbo has been replaced at least once by now. If the suspensions is original, it is guaranteed to be shot. Anyway, I would probably only pay $4,000US for that MR2. Definitely not $5,000.

I'd highly recommend researching the MR2 before buying that one. You will find that the 93+ are more desireable, mainly due to the larger brakes (suspension was also revised, some don't like it, others do). From my understanding, it's relatively easy to import MR2's to Canada from Japan so they should be cheaper and more common. I'd look around some more and pick up something nicer.

supra97
12-15-2008, 04:24 AM
Wow. That MR2 has been done so much wrong to. Wheels, mufflers, interior, fawked up windshield wipers. Ick!

I don't quite know the market in Canada for MR2's and Celica, but the prices seem very high. Of the two, I'd definitely go MR2 as the car is in every way better than the Celica. The only thing the Celica is better at is daily driving (comfort, cheap to maintain, etc) and practicality (more space, seats four passengers, etc). At ~186,000 miles, IF everything is original on the MR2 and no major services have been performed, I'd look for another option. However, at that mileage, I am fairly certain the turbo has been replaced at least once by now. If the suspensions is original, it is guaranteed to be shot. Anyway, I would probably only pay $4,000US for that MR2. Definitely not $5,000.

I'd highly recommend researching the MR2 before buying that one. You will find that the 93+ are more desireable, mainly due to the larger brakes (suspension was also revised, some don't like it, others do). From my understanding, it's relatively easy to import MR2's to Canada from Japan so they should be cheaper and more common. I'd look around some more and pick up something nicer.

I quite like what he did to the MR2, minus the mufflers. The TRD sticker on the windshield is gone now, I guess he realised it was tacky.

The engine is original on the MR2, but a lot of major parts have been replaced. A few this year. I'm, again, waiting to hear back about the turbo so I'm hoping it has been already. I don't know about suspension. It might have aftermarket springs but I haven't looked at it again so not sure about that yet either.

Importing a car isn't an option right now. I can't wait two months for a car. Shizzle I can't even wait another two days. My fiance's caliper just seized on his car today and now we're both struggling to find ways to get to work tomorrow!

I am going to look around a bit more on the local adsites and see what comes up. Will post.

supra97
12-15-2008, 05:15 AM
So far nada for Celicas...except for a load of 7th gens and a few 6th that are overpriced. The only other 5th gen listed I was interested in sold.

supra97
12-15-2008, 05:16 AM
Oh and for MR2s...quite a few but all over $7000. I don't have that much to spend.

85gtsblackman
12-15-2008, 05:29 AM
get a 3rd gen drive it till it dies, install built 2jz

/end

supra97
12-15-2008, 05:34 AM
haha there aren't even any for sale 'round here

supra97
12-15-2008, 06:16 AM
Hey guys...there's somebody nearby me selling a Celica GT parts car of the same year. I have asked about what type of tranny is in it, waiting on a response.

If it is an automatic...would I be able to swap out the manual in this blue car for an auto? Reason I'm asking is NOT because I want to drive an auto...but because I'd probably fix up the tranny problem clean it up and re-sell it and get a different car. The blue Celica is going for considerably less than the market value right now so I might be able to make a bit of coin off it. Please don't tell me if you think that's worth it...I just want to know about the manual-automatic swap.

85gtsblackman
12-15-2008, 07:01 AM
always buy a running car that moves

id get the duce or hold out 4 another gt4

ciento44
12-15-2008, 02:42 PM
If i were in your shoes, i'd get the MR2.

But the way that you're talking, the GTS is a better choice. You can grab an S53 or S54 at the junkyards for like... $200 or less. Drop that bitch in and go. NEVER rebuild an S-series tranny. WORST waste of money, ever.


But if it were me? The MR2. Hands down. It's a nice price, and if the turbo isn't smoking or anything now, it probably won't go in the next 6 months. If it is? Then wait for a CT20B to pop up.

theorhetoric
12-15-2008, 03:08 PM
ok am I the only that notices that that celi has a 3sfe not a 3sge... that would make it a GT not a GTS right?

ciento44
12-15-2008, 03:15 PM
ok am I the only that notices that that celi has a 3sfe not a 3sge... that would make it a GT not a GTS right?

5th gens never came with a 3sfe... i didn't notice that.

But if it has one, then it's had a swap at some point... and therefor i would rule it out.

Grot
12-15-2008, 03:57 PM
I would go with the mr2.

T-spoon
12-15-2008, 04:15 PM
If it's a Canadian Celica, not a Jap-spec import, it's going to have the same engine options as US 5th gens. The pic is a little small but that looks just like any 5SFE I've seen in other 5th gens. Pretty sure that says 2200 on the valve cover. Far as I know even the 6th gen GTS in Canada had the 5SFE.

ciento44
12-15-2008, 04:19 PM
Yeah... it's a 5sfe. No AFM.

supra97
12-15-2008, 05:45 PM
Well a buddy of mine is saying popping in a tranny is like opening a can of worms. I'll probably need a clutch, a rear seal, gear oil, plus there's no way to test the used transmission to know if it's got the same issues. I am really heavily leaning towards MR2 right now. Tomorrow I'll be driving the MR2 and looking very closely at it, checking for smoke that type of thing, plus driving another Celica I just found that appears to be in almost perfect condition with low mileage.

So as of tomorrow...I will know. I will keep you guys updated, thanks again for all your opinions and thoughts!!

skorpio
12-15-2008, 06:55 PM
MR2 looks beautiful from the naked ee and 5g isn't that bad of a price i would swoop it up if i had money for that kinda stuff

theorhetoric
12-15-2008, 10:03 PM
ahh my bad...

supra97
12-17-2008, 03:57 AM
So I drove and checked out the MR2 in detail today. I haven't got it because I offered him a lower price ($4000) and he wants a night to think about it. I think he'll go for it because the car hasn't sold for what he wants for it yet and there are a few things wrong that would definitely put most people except big Toyota fans off.

So here's what I found.

1) T-tops leak. A lot. It's been below zero here and the water that had leaked in had frozen on the A-pillars and the floor. The condensation on the inside froze up on every single window including the t-tops, so I had to actually scrape the frost off from the inside. It showered all over the interior but I managed to brush it off and I figured what may have been left...well the car seems to have had this problem for a while so it's nothing new.
Is this fixable? Is it relatively simple to fix?

2) Compression was 175 across all cylinders. We tested it but forgot to bring any sort of guide as to what was normal, so perhaps you guys could fill me in.

3) The turbo was ridiculously difficult to get to with only limited time and a toolbox of limited tools, so we did not open it up. My fiance drove it and he said he figured there's a couple seconds of turbo lag, maybe a bit less. I have never driven a boosted car before so I couldn't tell until he explained it later. Is this a bad thing that it lags for a second or two?

4) When you pull the caps off of the spark plugs there is oil on them. The spark plugs also have heavy carbon build up on their tips. It smells of fuel, so we believe it is running rich. Possible causes? Most likely causes?

5) No blue smoke, a bit of whitish grey when it was cold while accelerating. When the car warmed up it was gone.

6) Took a ridiculously long time to warm up...it hasn't been driven in six months though, just started up for a little while every week or so. I thought that was probably normal.

All in all...car drove beautifully. For 302000kms on it...it idles and revs smooth as butter, shifts beautifully, brakes well, accelerates smoothly. The body is in fantastic shape, but the interior has a bit of mold due to leaking.

I offered him $4000. Let's see what he says...otherwise though I would like to know your guys' opinion on these problems and how problematic they really are.

7)

ehntoo
12-17-2008, 05:07 AM
So I drove and checked out the MR2 in detail today. I haven't got it because I offered him a lower price ($4000) and he wants a night to think about it. I think he'll go for it because the car hasn't sold for what he wants for it yet and there are a few things wrong that would definitely put most people except big Toyota fans off.

So here's what I found.

1) T-tops leak. A lot. It's been below zero here and the water that had leaked in had frozen on the A-pillars and the floor. The condensation on the inside froze up on every single window including the t-tops, so I had to actually scrape the frost off from the inside. It showered all over the interior but I managed to brush it off and I figured what may have been left...well the car seems to have had this problem for a while so it's nothing new.
Is this fixable? Is it relatively simple to fix?

2) Compression was 175 across all cylinders. We tested it but forgot to bring any sort of guide as to what was normal, so perhaps you guys could fill me in.

3) The turbo was ridiculously difficult to get to with only limited time and a toolbox of limited tools, so we did not open it up. My fiance drove it and he said he figured there's a couple seconds of turbo lag, maybe a bit less. I have never driven a boosted car before so I couldn't tell until he explained it later. Is this a bad thing that it lags for a second or two?

4) When you pull the caps off of the spark plugs there is oil on them. The spark plugs also have heavy carbon build up on their tips. It smells of fuel, so we believe it is running rich. Possible causes? Most likely causes?

5) No blue smoke, a bit of whitish grey when it was cold while accelerating. When the car warmed up it was gone.

6) Took a ridiculously long time to warm up...it hasn't been driven in six months though, just started up for a little while every week or so. I thought that was probably normal.

All in all...car drove beautifully. For 302000kms on it...it idles and revs smooth as butter, shifts beautifully, brakes well, accelerates smoothly. The body is in fantastic shape, but the interior has a bit of mold due to leaking.

I offered him $4000. Let's see what he says...otherwise though I would like to know your guys' opinion on these problems and how problematic they really are.

7)

I'm no expert in these matters, but I can help at least a little.

The whitish smoke when you first start it up is perfectly normal if it's really cold out.

If it took a really long time to warm up, chances are the thermostat's dead and needs to be replaced. It's not too hard to do on most engines (don't own an MR2, so I don't know in this case).

Grot
12-17-2008, 05:18 AM
its not terrible on my 86 GTS which has a 3SGE is in.

extremeskillz
12-17-2008, 01:35 PM
get a 3rd gen drive it till it dies, install built 2jz

/end

^The man speaks the truth!

T-spoon
12-17-2008, 05:30 PM
The T-top leak is very common (the Supra Targa tops do it also). Dealership I used to work for keeps them all in stock. There's a front, rear, and a seal for each side. If you end up getting the car call Champion Toyota in Houston and ask for Jeff. Pretty sure they could have them to you in a week or so. Frankly, he really should have replaced those seals before it got to the point of mold, that's pretty gross.

mr2trd3
12-17-2008, 05:39 PM
So I drove and checked out the MR2 in detail today. I haven't got it because I offered him a lower price ($4000) and he wants a night to think about it. I think he'll go for it because the car hasn't sold for what he wants for it yet and there are a few things wrong that would definitely put most people except big Toyota fans off.

So here's what I found.

1) T-tops leak. A lot. It's been below zero here and the water that had leaked in had frozen on the A-pillars and the floor. The condensation on the inside froze up on every single window including the t-tops, so I had to actually scrape the frost off from the inside. It showered all over the interior but I managed to brush it off and I figured what may have been left...well the car seems to have had this problem for a while so it's nothing new.
Is this fixable? Is it relatively simple to fix?

2) Compression was 175 across all cylinders. We tested it but forgot to bring any sort of guide as to what was normal, so perhaps you guys could fill me in.

3) The turbo was ridiculously difficult to get to with only limited time and a toolbox of limited tools, so we did not open it up. My fiance drove it and he said he figured there's a couple seconds of turbo lag, maybe a bit less. I have never driven a boosted car before so I couldn't tell until he explained it later. Is this a bad thing that it lags for a second or two?

4) When you pull the caps off of the spark plugs there is oil on them. The spark plugs also have heavy carbon build up on their tips. It smells of fuel, so we believe it is running rich. Possible causes? Most likely causes?

5) No blue smoke, a bit of whitish grey when it was cold while accelerating. When the car warmed up it was gone.

6) Took a ridiculously long time to warm up...it hasn't been driven in six months though, just started up for a little while every week or so. I thought that was probably normal.

All in all...car drove beautifully. For 302000kms on it...it idles and revs smooth as butter, shifts beautifully, brakes well, accelerates smoothly. The body is in fantastic shape, but the interior has a bit of mold due to leaking.

I offered him $4000. Let's see what he says...otherwise though I would like to know your guys' opinion on these problems and how problematic they really are.

7)

1) Leaky t-tops are quite common for the MKII MR2 as with any other car that came with t-tops. Some people have had success ghetto-fixing the leaks using all sorts of different sealants, foams, etc. However, I'd recommend getting the seals replaced, I believe around $250 for the whole set (t-tops-to-window seals and body-to-t-tops seals). This is a fairly simple replacement. Nothing difficult about it. However, IF they have been leaking for a while and the car is rarely stored, I'd be slightly concerned about water damage to wires, carpeting, and floorpan.

2) Toyota OE specs for compression is 164psi. However, a compression test on an OLD engine is a pretty useless tool for evaluating the condition of the engine. A leakdown test would be the better option.

Throughout its life, the engine will undergo wear (lowering compression) and accumulate carbon deposits (increasing compression) from use. As you can see, compression will vary and is not a valuable tool for evaluating engine condition. What you CAN take from a compression test is the compression variance between cylinders. If the compression between cylinders varies quite a bit (say ~15psi), the motor has issues. You have stated that this particular motor is 175psi across all cylinders, but again, this number is quite meaningless except that it shows that there is nothing seriously facked up on one cylinder.

3) Describing lag as a second or two doesn't really tell much. Boost comes on differently with different loads and different RPM range. For example, at 3500 RPM on second gear, I can punch the accelerator and there is almost no lag. However, at 2000 RPM on fifth gear, there is noticeable turbo lag when I pin the accelerator to the floor. Also, I'm sure you understand that lag varies with turbo sizes. The stock CT26 typically hits full boost around 3200 RPM in third gear on the MR2. In conclusion, a bit of lag is absolutely normal with a turbocharged engine. I'd be concern if there was NO boost. FYI, the stock boost gauge on the MR2 is useless and inaccurate.

4) Oil in spark plug wells or on the spark plug tips themselve? As for the carbon build up on the tips, I believe this to be completely normal on the MR2 as this car runs a bit rich from the factory.

5) The smoke from start up seems normal, especially on cold days. Probably condensation, etc.

6) It shouldn't take more than 5-10 mins to get the car up to normal operating temperatures when you drive it. Obviously it takes a bit longer if you just start the car and let it sit. If it does take a long time to warm up while driving it, it could just be a stuck T-stat. This is quite common on old cars. As a matter of fact, I just replaced the T-stat on my 200K miles Celica that was not wanting to stay in normal operating temperature range. Now it runs at N.O.T. This is a pretty cheap thing to fix and easy too.

HTH.