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19celica90
12-14-2008, 05:58 PM
Alright everyone heres the deal, I'm making this thread to see what everyone believes is/was Toyota's Best Engine.

Now, some things to think of are:
-Reliability
-Fuel efficiency
-Overall power
-Ease of repair (ex. easy to work on)
-Cost of maintenance
-Availability of parts


Remember any engine from any series of engines, even the diesels! Everything from the 18r to 2zz and everything in between. It could be the most simple design or the most advanced motor toyota has out. I want to see what you think and why. So lets hear it!

vip09
12-14-2008, 06:04 PM
I didn't know toyota made a 2zz-fe. ;)

I have heard rumors of there being an awesome engine known as the 2zz-ge though..

19celica90
12-14-2008, 06:06 PM
I didn't know toyota made a 2zz-fe. ;)

I have heard rumors of there being an awesome engine known as the 2zz-ge though..
meh, I was close :)

Murgatroy
12-14-2008, 06:06 PM
Toss up between the 4AFE and the 22r.

Teh 4AFE may not make massive power, or much over 100, but it is very economic, at times giving me nearly 40 mpg. It is very reliable going well over 200k and still running like a clock. It is small and compact, making it very easy to work on. The fact that they Corolla is the most popular car in then world is no small feat, and I think the fact that it came with a 4AFE for so long might have something to do with it.

The 22R is the ubiquitous Toyota engine. It is powering the world's most popular truck in some of the worst climes in the world. The engine is dead reliable, easy to work on and can take a massive beating.

Trance4c
12-14-2008, 06:09 PM
Its hard not to say just about any JZ block was the best of its time for Toyota engineering.

Lagos
12-14-2008, 06:17 PM
yeah you cant beat the 2jz. Reliable and powerful.

19celica90
12-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Toss up between the 4AFE and the 22r.

Teh 4AFE may not make massive power, or much over 100, but it is very economic, at times giving me nearly 40 mpg. It is very reliable going well over 200k and still running like a clock. It is small and compact, making it very easy to work on.
Those are very good points Murg, and I like how you didn't just look at overall hp output. Just because it didn't make 300hp like the jz series does not mean it isn't a good engine.

Some other criteria could be, advancement in an engines technology. For instance when Toyota came out with the BEAMS 3SGE, I know that was a really big accomplishment for Toyota. Keep em coming!

david in germany
12-14-2008, 06:20 PM
Gonna have to stand with Murg but make it a little more wide of a selection. 4a series engines to include 4afe, 4age, 4agze, 4agte. and 22r series to include 22r and 22re and 22rte

the 4a series represent a beefy little engine capable of High MPG or High HP depending on the head. The 22r series for the torque and being a bullet proof "roots" style engine that will last and last. (it made the Toyota trucks what they are now)

goretro77
12-14-2008, 06:34 PM
for the time Lotus was considering an engine's weight to the power output the 2ZZGE was the choice. It didn't hurt that it was already federally approved for emissions and import to the USA.

All Lotus Elise/Exige/Exige S imported to the USA are dubbed Type 111R meaning they have the Toyota 2ZZGE.

reliability with not so much power: the 20R and 22R engine are rock solid.

Freshnicity
12-14-2008, 06:37 PM
3S-GTE ftw

:(

T-spoon
12-14-2008, 06:56 PM
Engineering wise... the 2jz is hard to beat.. however, they certainly have more technologically advanced engines now. But this is one reason I'm still loyal to Toyota even though they make no sports car now. They are always willing to keep pushing, not rest on their laurels as far as technology goes. Yeah, as unexciting as it is, the 22r is a well proven engine. If not for it the rock solid image of Toyota reliability would likely be weaker, or at least longer in coming. I think the 5SFE is a workhorse like the 22r, but easier to kill from mishandling (though, not really easy at all, just in comparison)

85gtsblackman
12-14-2008, 07:24 PM
u guys forgot about the 3tc and 2lt

other than that id have to say the 22r(e) and the 5s

1. 3tc
2. 2lt
3. 22r
4.5s

what u shoulda did was made a poll of engines that came in the celica, imo

Ghosty
12-14-2008, 07:26 PM
20V 4AGE

Very advanced engine, high redline, nice hp/displacement ratio, and economical as a 1.6L can be.

85gtsblackman
12-14-2008, 07:28 PM
reliability>hp

unless u have a high about of money to dump in your car

ciento44
12-14-2008, 07:29 PM
3tc

Mr. Babb
12-14-2008, 07:43 PM
22r ftw

Hiko
12-14-2008, 07:44 PM
For the list up there, and technological innovation, my vote, amazingly, goes to the 18rg.

Take the reliability of the 22r, the economy of a 5sfe (can be seen with current running 18rg's), and 145hp from 2 liters (a figure not beaten by Toyota until 1986 and the 3sge), and the fact that it was first put into production in 1973, and I'd say it might be the best engine they've ever made.

burnyd
12-14-2008, 07:54 PM
Im not even sure why there is a thread on this JZ block hands down is the best for economy and for power.

we all know the power aspects but take a look at majority of SC's running around theres one on auto trader @ 250k still for sale lol, I have seen them go ove 300k without a rebuild.... just amazing motors.

85gtsblackman
12-14-2008, 08:07 PM
damn i forgot the 1uzfe, i havent ever seen one of those die and i see sc 400s and ls 400s around here with over 300k still going

19celica90
12-14-2008, 08:09 PM
what u shoulda did was made a poll of engines that came in the celica, imo
nah, this is the reason why its in General Discussion




Im not even sure why there is a thread on this....
Did you have something better to do?? Don't be so negative

85gtsblackman
12-14-2008, 08:12 PM
ah gotcha

oh yeah did u guys know they ran the r series engine from the 50's and all the way till 1995

damn son

19celica90
12-14-2008, 08:27 PM
Since this is my thread I think I will add what I believe to be Toyota's Best motor. I'm going to narrow down my choices only to the engines that I have had experience with. Those engines are the 5sfe, 3sgte, 3ee, and the 1mzfe.
When I bought my Celica in 2001 I was your typical kid with a sports car. I washed it every 10 miles and didn't care about the motor. I remember I would change the oil when I felt like it and few times I did change the oil, then dipstick would show low oil. Fast forward to when I rebuilt my 5s with forged internals, the cylinder walls look like they were just honed. I mean the block was so smooth inside the cylinders, it had almost no signs of wear. I was really impressed with that along with that 5s out of my celica NEVER gave me a problem. It gave me good gas mileage and power.

I have a 96 Camry XLE with the OB2 5s, and its just as good as my celica's 5s. Never gives me probs.

Now my 3sgte, which is currenty in my Celica. It's a good motor, good power, only bad thing on those is the AFM, ignition components, and for me I could not daily drive an all-trac. But, aside those, the 3s is up there.

The 3ee thats in my friends Tercel is another good engine. Great gas mileage and the simplicity of it is great. Parts are cheap and the ability to service the motor is easy since its fairly small and does not take up too much space inside the bay.

And finally, my Solara with the 1mzfe. It's going to sound like I don't like that engine, but its not the engines fault. I just don't like transverse v-6's. They are soooo hard to work on, especially the rear head. The intake manifold is very hot during normal operation which I don't like either. Inaccessibility and shear size of this motor inside the bay makes me not like it. But, again thats not the motors fault, Toyota decided to put it in the Solara and make it FWD. It makes good power, and surprisingly gets almost 30 mpg in my Solara.

So, If I had to say what is Toyota's Best engine based on my own personal experience I would say the 5sfe. They're everywhere, parts are cheap, maintenance is low, power is decent, so that makes it a good contender. Now, I'm picking up a 91 Toyota 4x4 tomorrow with the legend 22re, so my choice might change.... :)

goretro77
12-14-2008, 08:41 PM
For the list up there, and technological innovation, my vote, amazingly, goes to the 18rg.

Take the reliability of the 22r, the economy of a 5sfe (can be seen with current running 18rg's), and 145hp from 2 liters (a figure not beaten by Toyota until 1986 and the 3sge), and the fact that it was first put into production in 1973, and I'd say it might be the best engine they've ever made.

18RG is an awesome Toyota/Yamaha engine.
DOHC, Crossflow Hemi Head, huge valves and a stock bore/stroke ratio of 88.5mm/80mm = this engine loves to rev. This engine really doesn't get going till it sees > 3000 rpms. Its just a bit heavy with its iron block but this is a older engine that was way ahead during its era. I had dual sidedraft 44mm Mikuni carbs on mine and TRD headers.

The 2ZZGE - when 'on the cam' reminds me of my 18RG.

The Captain
12-14-2008, 09:12 PM
22r

hobbie2k
12-14-2008, 09:38 PM
r series

85gtsblackman
12-15-2008, 04:53 AM
for those that may not know the 18r-g is a r series, to bad the head wont work on a 22r

The Captain
12-15-2008, 04:55 AM
May have to rethink my first decision. Probably the diesel Helix engine.

MrWOT
12-15-2008, 05:00 AM
1fz-fe

85gtsblackman
12-15-2008, 05:04 AM
May have to rethink my first decision. Probably the diesel Helix engine

see in page 1 where i mentioned the 2lt

and its spelled HILUX

mines been nick named high lutz

VikingJZ
12-15-2008, 05:40 AM
Im not even sure why there is a thread on this JZ block hands down is the best for economy and for power.

we all know the power aspects but take a look at majority of SC's running around theres one on auto trader @ 250k still for sale lol, I have seen them go ove 300k without a rebuild.... just amazing motors.


Ya.

The J block is literally the best engine Toyota ever built, along with the 1U and many R block engines.

I have 175k on my SC and you'd be hard pressed to think it has that many miles on it.

The engine has no movement whatsoever when you're just standing there looking at it with the hood popped. Even if you hit watch it with someone revving it. It does not move.

Personally, I think its the best engine ever built. Period.

But thats just because I own one.

DblOSmith
12-15-2008, 12:31 PM
I'd say 2JZ-GTE for it's time. Also, the 2GR-FSE is an excellent engine. It really sets the bar very high for engines in any class.

Ryan
12-15-2008, 02:00 PM
5SFE for the win...

Fuelish
12-15-2008, 08:27 PM
I'll side with the 20R or 22R folks ..... I had one or the other in my first Celi ('75 2.2L.... am guessing 20R ???) ..... and, yeah - it took years and years of (maintained) abuse without a whimper .... still wish I had that car (was originally my dad's .... had a vinyl roof, for whatever reason, bought new that way .... wierd !!!)

MrWOT
12-15-2008, 09:21 PM
1FZ....

http://www.brian894x4.com/ExpeditionLandCruiserFZJ80engine.html

Ludicrously heavy duty, I've been looking into finding one cheap to stuff into my supra for a while, but fairly rare due to being so freakin durable. Average mileage is 300k before teardown. Will handle suicidal output levels.

ciento44
12-15-2008, 09:24 PM
1FZ....

http://www.brian894x4.com/ExpeditionLandCruiserFZJ80engine.html

Ludicrously heavy duty, I've been looking into finding one cheap to stuff into my supra for a while, but fairly rare due to being so freakin durable. Average mileage is 300k before teardown. Will handle suicidal output levels.

Whoa....

Wasn't there some guy that had one of these in a Land Cruiser on Ebay a year or so ago pushing like 900+hp?

donteatbugs
12-15-2008, 09:40 PM
503E? noone wants a pikes peak motor?

The most famous and successful Toyota Race engine- the 503E was used in Toyota's Triumphant Championship seasons in IMSA GTO / GTP, Pikes Peak, Le Mans, and in the mid-90s Japan Touring Cup Championship. It is important to note that the 16 valve cylinder head layout from the 152E engine and the T block crankshaft saddle design were used as design base for this ultimate Toyota 4 cylinder Turbocharged race engine. The 503E represented the most powerful 4 cylinders in competition history developing over 1000HP in qualifying tune, 800HP for sprint races, and 600 for endurance events. IMPRESSIVE.

Luni
12-15-2008, 10:10 PM
NO, I wouldnt qualify that as toyotas best engine.

503E is awesome, but its a racing engine.

Mr E
12-16-2008, 03:02 PM
Alright everyone heres the deal, I'm making this thread to see what everyone believes is/was Toyota's Best Engine.

3S, specifically the 3rd generation 3S-GTE.



-Reliability


Running lots of boost as stock and appears to be pretty bomb proof unless you don't look after it or badly modify it. The ST205 has a few common faults. The engine isn't one of them.



-Fuel efficiency


Who gives a crap?



-Overall power


Yup. Power to weight isn't bad either, Toyota swapped out the 2JZ in the Supra for the 3S. It was lighter and produced the same power with the formulas various restrictions.



-Ease of repair (ex. easy to work on)


Who cares? I generally pay someone else to do that for me.



-Cost of maintenance


Meh.



-Availability of parts


S'ok, I've never had a problem finding bits.

gerby77
12-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Was thinking about the 5s-fe.... it runs and runs and runs heard about 450000 km.
Turboing it should be easy, 3s-gte parts fit on it.

Smaay
12-16-2008, 04:12 PM
ill have to go 2JZ-GTE what other stock engine can suport 700HP

85gtsblackman
12-16-2008, 04:47 PM
22r bottom end is good to 1000 ish hp, pistions can take it rods, dunno they are beefy

1fz can take some beating

seen some evil twin turbo stock internaled 5vz's

i can keep going

ciento44
12-16-2008, 05:01 PM
I call BS on the 22r.

I gotta see that.

85gtsblackman
12-16-2008, 07:00 PM
ill serch for it on my day off, gotta be to work in a hour and a half and im currently cooking

have u ever seen the internals of a 22r, the crank is thicker than a sbc 350

remember u said handel, now getting it to 700hp is a different thing althogh there was a truck running 40lbs of boost on some equivilant to a 70 trim turbo

ciento44
12-16-2008, 07:14 PM
ill serch for it on my day off, gotta be to work in a hour and a half and im currently cooking

have u ever seen the internals of a 22r, the crank is thicker than a sbc 350

remember u said handel, now getting it to 700hp is a different thing althogh there was a truck running 40lbs of boost on some equivilant to a 70 trim turbo


You lost me there.... I've seen the internals of a 22r, yes...

I'm not sure what you're talking about after that...

85gtsblackman
12-16-2008, 07:19 PM
mmmmm grilled burgers

Berg
12-18-2008, 09:35 PM
I'd have to throw my support behind the 4A engines. Particularly the 4A-GE and 4A-GZE. They were several years ahead of their time. They are stable high revving (especially for the time), reliable, respond well to mods, and one powers my MR2! :laugh:

Cheers,
Berg

85gtsblackman
12-19-2008, 12:01 AM
the 4a was the worst engine i had till this day and i dunno why

my beta 1 hyundai engine was a million times better

edit: i think that celica was cursed

DaneDog311
12-19-2008, 01:56 AM
5SFE for the win...

+1

polish dude
12-19-2008, 06:38 AM
3sgte
reliable; for a turbo engine. mine got to 180k with mods. if left stock much longer.
gas mileage not amazing but when used in a fwd car it's up there above 30mpg. Hell my alltrac was getting over 30mpg
possibility of very high hp.


also i may be wrong but wasn't 3sgte first engine to reach 1:1 ratio for volume to hp with a turbo.

19celica90
12-19-2008, 01:30 PM
Another engine that comes to mind when I think of Toyota's better motors was the one featured in the Previa's. The 2tz-fe and 2tz-fze i believe they were labeled. The Previas that I do see running or in a junkyard from a collision always have 200k+ on them. I think that should say something about its reliability.

They came with the sc14 supercharger which alot of 4agze guys search for as a decent upgrade from thier own supercharger. Granted they didn't make huge hp numbers (n/a-135hp & s/c-160hp) they still seem to get you where you needed to go and even had an awd drivetrain to help you out in the snow.

I don't have any first hand experience with this motor but it seems like a good one to note.

renegadex
12-20-2008, 03:49 PM
I'm probably going catch hell for saying this, but I think one of the best motors has the be the 20v.
It has good power for its size.
It gets great gas milage.
It's reliable in stock form.
It's easy to work on.
Parts are not too hard to come by, anything you can't get from Toyota( you would be surprised at what the southeast region stocks in their warehouse for the black top) you can get from pass racing. How ever, I suppose its no 5SFE or 22RE

Ghosty
12-20-2008, 08:27 PM
When discussing matters like the "best" of anything, it's always purely subjective because while there's many different parameters to judge an engine by (many of which have precise figures like fuel economy and power), exactly what parameter should dominate the discussion is ultimately a matter of opinion.

However, I'll say that OP has many good parameters:


-Reliability
-Fuel efficiency
-Overall power
-Ease of repair (ex. easy to work on)
-Cost of maintenance
-Availability of parts


What I think the overall point of those parameters was what's the best real world Toyota engine. In other words, what's the Toyota engine that works best for the 99 percent of the population that uses them daily.

Power probably shouldn't be the biggest concern, as long as the car can keep up in traffic. So we're talking about 100hp minim. The 4AFE squeaks by in that respect, but the E-series (Paseo, Echo) could also qualify.

Having said that, I don't think the fact that the engine makes a great deal of horsepower should automatically disqualify the car. J series reliability cannot be doubted. But for an everyday engine, it is a bit thirsty, despite the fact that similar engines from other automakers are even more thirsty. So practicality does take a small hit to that engine.

For all the maintenance posts here on about the 3SGTE, I'd almost rule it out entirely. Not saying it isn't a good engine, or even that it's that difficult to maintain, just saying that 99 percent of the population probably would be inconvenienced by maintenance issues. Also, turbos do have a limited lifespan. Not an expert on the 3SGTE, but I do wonder how long the stock turbo lasts.

And yet, turbos can increase power in the smaller-displacement engines, such as the 4EFTE. Those 1.3L engines are relatively low-maintenance, and many have been boosted well past stock on stock internals. The the 4EFTE was produced between 1986 and 1999, and was most recently used to power the Starlet EP91 Glanza V. That had 133 hp.

The 22R is a strong candidate for best engine because it is small displacement and good economy. Despite the fact that it's not a high-rev engine, the power band is exactly where you need it to be in daily driving situations (as well as in towing, and in many motorsport situations). Reliability is renowned. As posted previously, that's probably why Toyota used the engine until 1995.

More info: http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Information/22r_tech_notes.htm

H8PVMNT
12-21-2008, 03:36 AM
I vote for the 3RZ, the 2.7 4 banger in the 95+ Tacomas and 4Runners. 25 mpg in a truck, DOHC and a really effective oiling system compared to the 22re. There are actualy jets that hose oil right on the timing chain. They are a direct bolt up to any W series trans that went behind the 22r/22re. You guys should swap one into an early celica, it would be badass... The drivability and the tourque curve is so much better than the 22re. 150 very reliable horse in stock form and I think you can get a TRD supercharger and a few aftermarket now too. I've heard of guys smoking moderatly built 22RE-Ts with stock 3RZs in 4x4 pickups and they kick ass all over the old 3.sl0 V6 in the early 90s trucks, imagine what they would do in a lightweight car with a few mods!

I'm swaping one in my '94 pickup this spring.

I like the 22r or 22re but I've gone through to many to think they're as indestructible as some people say. Allbeit I am 4 wheeling the piss out of them, they probably go forever on the road. The timing chain will self destruct the timing cover and dump coolant in your oil if you run the tensioners to long, which most people do. And the heads warp way to easy. They are really easy to figure out though.

I do really like the feel every 20R I've ever driven. I guess the heads are better than the 22r. They sure drive better for some reason. More drivability and low end.

I like my 5SFE even though it's not a ball of fire, but I don't have enough experience with the other car engines to pass judgement yet. I have to say that the low end is great for around town and pulling passes. I think they engineered it just right for a fun daily driver.

Wicked Toys
12-21-2008, 11:14 PM
I was always impressed with the 20v, but my main vote does go to the 22r.

Kastigir
12-22-2008, 12:30 AM
Having experience with only the 4AFE and the 5SFE I have to say these are two of Toyotas best. Also, whatever engine was in their little mid 80s pickup truck.

hyoctane
12-24-2008, 12:15 AM
I have heard rumors of there being an awesome engine known as the 2zz-ge though..

I still don't see why the 2ZZ get's overlooked. It is an excellent feat of engineering both by Toyota and Yamaha -- 100 HP per liter club to boot. You guys an your boosted engines ;). I don't think the 2ZZ is the "best" engine produced by Toyota, however, I easily consider it in the top 10. But then again, I am a bias ZZT231 owner -- we're few and far between.

Cavanagh
12-24-2008, 07:26 AM
I feel "most" of the peoples decisions are upon what car and/or motor they have. :rolleyes:

85gtsblackman
12-24-2008, 07:41 AM
Also, whatever engine was in their little mid 80s pickup truck.

that would be a 22r :wiggle:

im hard on engines, well used to be, so far the 22r(e) is doing good

when i worked at toyota i broke a couple of 7th gen gt-s's, not counting lift bolts that i made fail

ciento44
12-24-2008, 03:00 PM
I vote for the 3RZ, the 2.7 4 banger in the 95+ Tacomas and 4Runners. 25 mpg in a truck, DOHC and a really effective oiling system compared to the 22re. There are actualy jets that hose oil right on the timing chain. They are a direct bolt up to any W series trans that went behind the 22r/22re. You guys should swap one into an early celica, it would be badass... The drivability and the tourque curve is so much better than the 22re. 150 very reliable horse in stock form and I think you can get a TRD supercharger and a few aftermarket now too. I've heard of guys smoking moderatly built 22RE-Ts with stock 3RZs in 4x4 pickups and they kick ass all over the old 3.sl0 V6 in the early 90s trucks, imagine what they would do in a lightweight car with a few mods!

I'm swaping one in my '94 pickup this spring.

I like the 22r or 22re but I've gone through to many to think they're as indestructible as some people say. Allbeit I am 4 wheeling the piss out of them, they probably go forever on the road. The timing chain will self destruct the timing cover and dump coolant in your oil if you run the tensioners to long, which most people do. And the heads warp way to easy. They are really easy to figure out though.

I do really like the feel every 20R I've ever driven. I guess the heads are better than the 22r. They sure drive better for some reason. More drivability and low end.

I like my 5SFE even though it's not a ball of fire, but I don't have enough experience with the other car engines to pass judgement yet. I have to say that the low end is great for around town and pulling passes. I think they engineered it just right for a fun daily driver.

Hey and not to mention the Scion tC dragster driven by Rado is powered by a 3RZ. :hehe:

mr2trd3
12-24-2008, 06:51 PM
when i worked at toyota i broke a couple of 7th gen gt-s's, not counting lift bolts that i made fail

Probably why you're no longer working at Toyota. I don't, just a guess. Definitely a good move by that dealership.

My91GTS
12-25-2008, 12:01 AM
5SFE just Because mine has 330000miles on my Celica with out being rebuilt :D

usp45
12-25-2008, 04:07 AM
IMO the best motor depends on the task at hand. I've grown fond of the mz and vz series for an over all blend of economy, power, technology, and reliability. However if fuel economy was my fancy I would be looking to swap an a series. Or jz's and uz's got the sex appeal department on lockdown. R's have amazing reliability, if it wasn't a chain motor it would be my fave I think.

Grot
12-25-2008, 04:14 AM
Chain>Belt

usp45
12-25-2008, 04:28 AM
my dick>yo dick :D

my dick, so hot that its stolen... yo dick, looks like gary coleman.

sorry I just watched harold and kumar escape from guantanamo bay and they used that song and...

85gtsblackman
12-25-2008, 06:12 AM
Probably why you're no longer working at Toyota. I don't, just a guess. Definitely a good move by that dealership.

research before u speak, you comment may have seen smarter

no i wasnt fired jackass

i quit toyota because i was eventally put in the used car department, i loved it, work m-f weekends off, my old team leader was pissed because he worked 6 days a week and made less money than i did by a good amount and he had be there longer so rather than leaving me at a tech in training they moved me back over to the lube rack.

1 week later hyundai/buick offered more money with every weekend and holiday off so i quit toyota.


but if u had searched mr2trd3 you would have known this

now back onto the tread at hand

-Reliability
2xr's have seen running with over a mill on em, but most still go 300k easy

-Fuel efficiency

before my trans issue i was getting 27 mixed driving and 33mpg all highway @ 70mph


-Overall power
fine for me, u can tweak these engines to run decent power, mines abnormally powerfull for what ive done to it

-Ease of repair (ex. easy to work on)

its as complicated as a briggs lawnmower engine

Cost of maintenance

about as cheap as any domestic

-Availability of parts

considering 4 differnt vehicles share a 2xr series engine, drivetrain is easy
shares body with mk2 supra, and can use other parts from cressidas

so far 2xr series engine = win


but if u had searched mr2trd3 you would have known this

schmooot
12-27-2008, 08:12 PM
the diesel one in the old school landcruisers.

Rick89GTS
12-28-2008, 06:50 AM
No love for the 3SGE?

Grot
12-28-2008, 06:55 AM
its got a few flaws.

i vote 2xr